Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder: This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread. Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that. Thanks.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[evolved2]

I mean it's the way you keep contradicting yourself

It shouldn't be hard for you to point out those contradictions then.

 

[Gralin]

It shouldn't be hard for you to point out those contradictions then.

I already did provide an example

 

[Gethelred]

You guys have completely lost the (pretend) centrists. The next federal election will be fascinating.

This is a) an evasion, away from what you said, and b) an objection to what would've been fairly uncontroversial in the 90's.

I mean, think of what you're saying people are objecting to. In the 90's, greeks, italians and whatnot had integrated pretty completely into the Australian zeitgeist. Footballers, art, culture; they became formative parts of Melbourne and Sydney, crucial to the landscape socially, economically to the point in which you couldn't have imagined the cities without them. If you'd tried running with this back then, you'd have struggled to get much traction.

If you're right, I struggle to see how it's anything worth celebrating.

 

[evolved2]

I usually vote the racist ON last. The Greens are even more racist, so I fully intend to place them last next time around.

Where is the contradiction?

 

[Gralin]

I usually vote the racist ON last. The Greens are even more racist, so I fully intend to place them last next time around.

Where is the contradiction?

I wouldn't expect you to admit the problem

Here's some more

A truly secular government allows freedom to practice while favoring no religion.

I wouldn't ban any PM from practicing their religion of choice. I'd tighten the filter at the border though.

Islam is a horrible religion. While we don't see eye to eye on that point, it will be a huge consideration at the next election for me.

Most atheists don't care about religion.

All we ask is that believers play by the same rules as the rest of us.

 

[evolved2]

This is a) an evasion, away from what you said, and b) an objection to what would've been fairly uncontroversial in the 90's.

I mean, think of what you're saying people are objecting to. In the 90's, greeks, italians and whatnot had integrated pretty completely into the Australian zeitgeist. Footballers, art, culture; they became formative parts of Melbourne and Sydney, crucial to the landscape socially, economically to the point in which you couldn't have imagined the cities without them. If you'd tried running with this back then, you'd have struggled to get much traction.

If you're right, I struggle to see how it's anything worth celebrating.

In general, I think Melbourne has integrated different cultures and sexualities seamlessly.

Nobody really cares if you are different. Most of my workmates don't fit the mold of the 'standard Australian', and nobody cares. We have managers at my workplace wearing a hijab, and others who are open about their mental health struggles.

We need to move past the limitations of identity politics imo.

 

[evolved2]

I wouldn't expect you to admit the problem

Here's some more

Which parts do you disagree with?

 

[Gralin]

Two more

Islam is a barbaric belief system that some will defend because it's anti-white and anti-west.

Hijab and burqa for starters.

The expectation of different attire and beliefs for 'their' people is barbaric.

In general, I think Melbourne has integrated different cultures and sexualities seamlessly.

Nobody really cares if you are different. Most of my workmates don't fit the mold of the 'standard Australian', and nobody cares. We have managers at my workplace wearing a hijab, and others who are open about their mental health struggles.

We need to move past the limitations of identity politics imo.

 

[Gralin]

Which parts do you disagree with?

I'm saying you disagree with yourself

 

[Gethelred]

In general, I think Melbourne has integrated different cultures and sexualities seamlessly.

Nobody really cares if you are different. Most of my workmates don't fit the mold of the 'standard Australian', and nobody cares. We have managers at my workplace wearing a hijab, and others who are open about their mental health struggles.

We need to move past the limitations of identity politics imo.

... the point of multiculturalism is the celebration of difference, not the erasure of it.

 

[evolved2]

I'm saying you disagree with yourself

Make your case before banning me then

 

[evolved2]

... the point of multiculturalism is the celebration of difference, not the erasure of it.

And I love multiculturalism.

I feel zero need to defend myself beyond that, so lets see if I have an account tomorrow. Haha

 

[sr36]

What happened to being intolerant towards the intolerant?

Doesn't that include you?

 

[sr36]

In general, I think Melbourne has integrated different cultures and sexualities seamlessly.

Nobody really cares if you are different. Most of my workmates don't fit the mold of the 'standard Australian', and nobody cares. We have managers at my workplace wearing a hijab, and others who are open about their mental health struggles.

We need to move past the limitations of identity politics imo.

You're preaching identity politics.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I wouldn't ban Islam or Muslims, but I'd cap immigration numbers from Islamic nations. We can only absorb so many at a time, no?

Why Islamic nations specifically? Would this cap also apply to the Christians that live in those nations?

Not impossible, but lets be reasonable. Islam is a barbaric belief system that some will defend because it's anti-white and anti-west.

What makes you believe that's the motivation behind their defence?

I can't definitively speak for other people, just for myself. There's plenty that I don't like about Islam as a religion. But when I speak in defence of Muslims, it's for them as people, not their system of beliefs. Even if they all profess the same religion, I don't think their beliefs and attitudes are all the same. I've met some quite tolerant Muslims actually. So it seems wrong to me to treat them like they're all the same, all bigoted against gays, all sexist, all against progressivism. Even if they have been taught that in the past, who's to say they can't grow and change like others have? It's not so long ago that most of Western society was openly homophobic, but slowly they developed tolerance and acceptance.

I learned to change my attitudes towards Catholics in a similar way in the past. I've met some real homophobic and transphobic jerks who were Catholic. But I've also heard from a transgender friend how much better they were treated by staff in the Catholic healthcare system compared to the public healthcare system. If experience taught me that I can't write off all Catholics as intolerant, why is it different for Muslims?

I also think it's unfair to label all of Islam as anti-Western. Salafism and its Saudi variant Wahhabism, yes, because they hate anything that wasn't practised 1500 years ago, they're some of the finest examples of brain rot on planet earth. But the overwhelming majority of Muslims are not Salafis. And there are nations like Turkey that are overwhelmingly populated by Muslims, but still very focused on learning from the West to progress and develop.

And I think it's plainly incorrect to call Islam anti-white when they take converts of European heritage, and there are entire native European ethnic groups that are predominantly Muslim, like Bosniaks, Albanians and Chechens.

Hijab and burqa for starters.

So if they've pushed the burqa and hijab onto Australian society, why am I not seeing non-Muslim Australians wearing them, except for when Pauline Hanson wore one to ridicule Muslims?

The expectation of different attire and beliefs for 'their' people is barbaric.

Do you feel the same way about Sikhs wearing turbans? Or women being expected to cover their breasts in public in Australia, regardless of their religion?

I don't believe in forcing people to wear particular clothing, but everyone has expectations on what is suitable attire in different situations. I may not agree with that expectation, but it isn't my concern unless people are being forced to comply with it. And how is the public to tell who's being forced and who is wearing it by choice? That's a matter for the police, not me.

More will come in time. You'll probably support that too.

We've had some good conversations in the past. Could you please do me the courtesy of asking me what my views are instead of asserting what they are?

If white men wanted their women to wear clothing to show their subordination towards a god, you'd be up in arms.

So you mean like how Catholic nuns are expected to cover their hair? No, I don't care about that actually. And again, proving whether someone is being forced or doing something of their own choice is a matter for the police.

I'm happy to have a secular government that wants the best for its citizens.

I guess that's a bit more tolerant and free than an officially atheist government, yes.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

We have managers at my workplace wearing a hijab, and others who are open about their mental health struggles.

I wonder how they have the confidence and capability to lead men despite having this barbaric expectation placed on them, or internalised, to wear a hijab.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I wonder how they have the confidence and capability to lead men despite having this barbaric expectation placed on them, or internalised, to wear a hijab.

If your boss turns up with a Cuckoo clock on his head, that doesn't determine whether he has a capability or not. He may be considered eccentric though.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

If your boss turns up with a Cuckoo clock on his head, that doesn't determine whether he has a capability or not. He may be considered eccentric though.

Interesting you assume my boss is male, but fortunately he is. I think if the people under him no longer respect him, that has everything to do with his capability at leadership in that team.

 

[10571z]

Why are there Sharia courts in the UK if people’s intention is to assimilate to the UK?

 

[Gethelred]

Why are there Sharia courts in the UK if people’s intention is to assimilate to the UK?

... because where you heard this from originates on this website:

With 85 Sharia courts, UK becomes western capital for Islamic rulings

Britain Sharia Law: Britain is now home to 85 sharia courts that rule on family matters of marriage and divorce. With Muslims from North America and Europe coming to appeal to these Islamic councils, Britain is emerging as the "western capital" for sharia courts. Organisations are expressing...

www.indiatoday.in

... and Mediabias has this to say concerning it:

Overall, we rate India Today Right-Center Biased based on editorial positions that favor the conservative government. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to several failed fact checks.

And the last time I had someone do what you've done here (post something knowing it came from site with low credibility) they were infracted for misinformation.

And Sharia councils have no legal standing in Britain; they're arbitration bodies approached by muslims to resolve matters of their choosing.

Tread carefully, 10751z.

 

[10571z]

... because where you heard this from originates on this website:

With 85 Sharia courts, UK becomes western capital for Islamic rulings

Britain Sharia Law: Britain is now home to 85 sharia courts that rule on family matters of marriage and divorce. With Muslims from North America and Europe coming to appeal to these Islamic councils, Britain is emerging as the "western capital" for sharia courts. Organisations are expressing...

www.indiatoday.in

... and Mediabias has this to say concerning it:

And the last time I had someone do what you've done here (post something knowing it came from site with low credibility) they were infracted for misinformation.

And Sharia councils have no legal standing in Britain; they're arbitration bodies approached by muslims to resolve matters of their choosing.

Tread carefully, 10751z.

Quite aware of the “no legal standing” but doesn’t exactly scream integration into British life does it?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Quite aware of the “no legal standing” but doesn’t exactly scream integration into British life does it?

Setting up a colony in Britain is about as British as you can get.

 

[Gethelred]

Quite aware of the “no legal standing” but doesn’t exactly scream integration into British life does it?

Neither did tandoori on chips, but they adopted that one pretty quick.

 

[10571z]

Neither did tandoori on chips, but they adopted that one pretty quick.

Ah yes food is quite comparable to the identify of the country.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Ah yes food is quite comparable to the identify of the country.

Britain is famous for colonisation which includes setting up courts, yeah?

They literally wrote the book on it.