Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder: This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread. Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that. Thanks.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Chief]

... less than 10%?

You're worried about less than 10% of school children, a percentage of which will abandon their religion - because the funny thing about repression, it breeds rebellion - in favour of fitting in?

**** me. This is really, really dumb.

Wait until you see how they react to the less than 1% of kids who are trans!

 

[10571z]

Your argument is laughably dishonest or completely nuts.

You don't want Australia to allow Islamic people to migrate to Australia as refugees as you're concerned that Australia will become too dangerous for Islamic women due to a potential rise in Sharia councils in Australia?

I didn't say that. Im opposed to having a parallel court system running for citizens. Doesn't scream harmonious integration to me.

 

[sr36]

I didn't say that. Im opposed to having a parallel court system running for citizens. Doesn't scream harmonious integration to me.

You've made it clear that you're very concerned about a potential rise in the number of Muslims in Australia.

That rise is the result of Australia's refugee intake.

Ultimately, you don't want Australia to accept Muslim refugees and are pretending it's because you're concerned about the welfare of Islamic women.

It's either a ridiculous dishonest argument - or one you haven't thought through. Which is it?

 

[10571z]

You've made it clear that you're very concerned about a potential rise in the number of Muslims in Australia.

That rise is the result of Australia's refugee intake.

Ultimately, you don't want Australia to accept Muslim refugees and are pretending it's because you're concerned about the welfare of Islamic women.

It's either a ridiculous dishonest argument - or one you haven't thought through. Which is it?

The question was

"Sharia courts are beholden to the laws of the country they are held in.

Do you deny this, yes or no?"

I said i deny it. I have used women being taken advantage of in these courts as ONE example. You can agree to any divorce split you like. But if a husband has 4 wives with 2 kids each as recognized by the Sharia court do you think she would get a fair split and child support as expected by the UK system?

Are our society expectations being met in these courts would be a better question.

 

[CM86]

The question was

"Sharia courts are beholden to the laws of the country they are held in.

Do you deny this, yes or no?"

I said i deny it. I have used women being taken advantage of in these courts as ONE example. You can agree to any divorce split you like. But if a husband has 4 wives with 2 kids each as recognized by the Sharia court do you think she would get a fair split and child support as expected by the UK system?

Are our society expectations being met in these courts would be a better question.

OK.

Please name a law that is being broken.

Also, please explain how being vitriolic, and fearmongering about Muslims is designed to make the women feel welcomed and comfortable enough to reach out if they need to.

 

[sr36]

The question was

"Sharia courts are beholden to the laws of the country they are held in.

Do you deny this, yes or no?"

I said i deny it. I have used women being taken advantage of in these courts as ONE example. You can agree to any divorce split you like. But if a husband has 4 wives with 2 kids each as recognized by the Sharia court do you think she would get a fair split and child support as expected by the UK system?

Are our society expectations being met in these courts would be a better question.

Ok. I'll take that as a a concession that you're being dishonest.

You're bringing up these points within a broader discussion about an increase of Islam in the west.

To say that you're concerned about how an influx of Islam will alter Australian or UK society is a legitimate discussion.

To argue that you're concerned about the welfare of individual islamic women whilst arguing against our refugee intake including a lot of Muslims is ****ing ridiculous. It's either moronic or a lie.

 

[10571z]

Ok. I'll take that as a a concession that you're being dishonest.

You're bringing up these points within a broader discussion about an increase of Islam in the west.

To say that you're concerned about how an influx of Islam will alter Australian or UK society is a legitimate discussion.

To argue that you're concerned about the welfare of individual islamic women whilst arguing against our refugee intake including a lot of Muslims is ****ing ridiculous. It's either moronic or a lie.

You are again missing the point. I’m against a parallel legal system running. People are claiming “they aren’t enforcing anything illegal” I’m explaining scenarios where untoward things in western societal standards are taking place.

 

[CM86]

You are again missing the point. I’m against a parallel legal system running. People are claiming “they aren’t enforcing anything illegal” I’m explaining scenarios where untoward things in western societal standards are taking place.

And it's been explained to you that this isn't an issue confined to Islam. It's an issue with our current systems of mediation etc.


It's why you keep talking about a parallel legal system, but you can't point to a single law that is being broken, without consequences.


There is a heavy implication as to why you're only taking issue with one group of people under these systems. Rather than the systems themselves, and the other people also abusing them.

 

[10571z]

And it's been explained to you that this isn't an issue confined to Islam. It's an issue with our current systems of mediation etc.


It's why you keep talking about a parallel legal system, but you can't point to a single law that is being broken, without consequences.


There is a heavy implication as to why you're only taking issue with one group of people under these systems. Rather than the systems themselves, and the other people also abusing them.

4 wives is being recognised by the Sharia Court then divorce decisions with those metrics are happening.

While you can claim this isn’t “illegal” does it uphold western laws in marriage and divorce?

 

[10571z]

And it's been explained to you that this isn't an issue confined to Islam. It's an issue with our current systems of mediation etc.


It's why you keep talking about a parallel legal system, but you can't point to a single law that is being broken, without consequences.


There is a heavy implication as to why you're only taking issue with one group of people under these systems. Rather than the systems themselves, and the other people also abusing them.

If a Sharia council demands you need to be lashed and the receiver agrees thats not technically illegal.

Are you ok with a Sharia court marrying a 12 year old an 40 year old? I mean the marriage isn’t recognised so who cares yeah?

 

[CM86]

4 wives is being recognised by the Sharia Court then divorce decisions with those metrics are happening.

While you can claim this isn’t “illegal” does it uphold western laws in marriage and divorce?

I do claim that it isn't illegal. Because it isn't.


If we restructure and fix our existing systems that oversee areas like wills, mediation etc, it will remove the ability for people to be taken advantage of by their community.

But it's hard, because you can't overstep and take away total autonomy from society who wish to resolve problems outside of a court of law.


Many judges will push for mediation in defamation cases, to avoid the costs and difficulties that arise from court.

 

[Gralin]

If a Sharia council demands you need to be lashed and the receiver agrees thats not technically illegal.

Are you ok with a Sharia court marrying a 12 year old an 40 year old? I mean the marriage isn’t recognised so who cares yeah?

Child marriage is legal in the majority of US states

 

[sr36]

You are again missing the point. I’m against a parallel legal system running. People are claiming “they aren’t enforcing anything illegal” I’m explaining scenarios where untoward things in western societal standards are taking place.

Right. So when you referenced the percentage of school aged Islamic kids in the UK, your concern was obviously that the judgements of student representative councils "courts" aren't legally binding.

Cut the crap and just be honest. You're worried about a growth in islam in Western countries and running with a dishonest argument that it's to do with your concern for the wellbeing of islamic women - whom you don't want to be allowed to enter as a refugee...

 

[CM86]

If a Sharia council demands you need to be lashed and the receiver agrees thats not technically illegal.

Are you ok with a Sharia court marrying a 12 year old an 40 year old? I mean the marriage isn’t recognised so who cares yeah?

No, that's assault and child abuse.
Australia does not recognise a marriage between children and adults. As there is no consent.

It's literally against the law.
The Commonwealth Criminal Code Act 1995.

As well as-

The Commonwealth Marriage Act 1961 includes provisions whereby a marriage may be void if the consent of a party was not real, or if a party was not of marriageable age.​

​

The Marriage Act permits a marriage where one party is aged between 16 and 18 years of age, where there is both the required consent (usually parental) and an Australian court order from a judge or magistrate authorising the marriage. It is illegal for any person under the age of 16, or two people under the age of 18, to marry.​

​

Sometimes children and young people are taken overseas to be forcibly married. This is against the law in Australia and the Australian Federal Circuit Court can make orders to ensure that a child cannot be taken overseas for this purpose. This means that the court is able to:​

​

• prevent a passport being issued for a child
• require a person to surrender a child or accompanying adult's passport to the court
• prevent the removal of a child from Australia and place the child's name on the Airport Watch List

If you think someone is in, or at immediate risk of a forced marriage, call the Australian Federal Police on 131 AFP (131 237). In an emergency, dial Triple Zero (000).​

​

https://www.ag.gov.au/crime/people-smuggling-and-human-trafficking/forced-marriage




This information is readily available and easy to find.

You can't let fear dictate your positions. And you can't let misinformation remove your logical capabilities.

Are you ok with a Sharia court marrying a 12 year old an 40 year old? I mean the marriage isn’t recognised so who cares yeah?

You should have know the above information, if this issue is genuinely important to you, right?

​

 

[10571z]

Right. So when you referenced the percentage of school aged Islamic kids in the UK, your concern was obviously that the judgements of student representative councils "courts" aren't legally binding.

Cut the crap and just be honest. You're worried about a growth in islam in Western countries and running with a dishonest argument that it's to do with your concern for the wellbeing of islamic women - whom you don't want to be allowed to enter as a refugee...

Absolutely, in some European countries its of concern. UK is predicted to be nearly 20% Islam by 2050.

 

[Chief]

UK is predicted to be nearly 20% Islam by 2050.

Which type of Islam?

 

[10571z]

No, that's assault and child abuse.
Australia does not recognise a marriage between children and adults. As there is no consent.

It's literally against the law.
The Commonwealth Criminal Code Act 1995.

As well as-

The Commonwealth Marriage Act 1961 includes provisions whereby a marriage may be void if the consent of a party was not real, or if a party was not of marriageable age.​

​

The Marriage Act permits a marriage where one party is aged between 16 and 18 years of age, where there is both the required consent (usually parental) and an Australian court order from a judge or magistrate authorising the marriage. It is illegal for any person under the age of 16, or two people under the age of 18, to marry.​

​

Sometimes children and young people are taken overseas to be forcibly married. This is against the law in Australia and the Australian Federal Circuit Court can make orders to ensure that a child cannot be taken overseas for this purpose. This means that the court is able to:​

​

• prevent a passport being issued for a child
• require a person to surrender a child or accompanying adult's passport to the court
• prevent the removal of a child from Australia and place the child's name on the Airport Watch List

If you think someone is in, or at immediate risk of a forced marriage, call the Australian Federal Police on 131 AFP (131 237). In an emergency, dial Triple Zero (000).​

​

https://www.ag.gov.au/crime/people-smuggling-and-human-trafficking/forced-marriage




This information is readily available and easy to find.

You can't let fear dictate your positions. And you can't let misinformation remove your logical capabilities.





You should have know the above information, if this issue is genuinely important to you, right?

​

And they don't recognize marriages by the Sharia council. That's my point. Its not technically "illegal" to be married to a child by a Sharia Council because its not a marriage.

And no its not assault if I agree to it.

 

[10571z]

Which type of Islam?

Most Sunni in the UK i believe

 

[Gough]

Absolutely, in some European countries its of concern. UK is predicted to be nearly 20% Islam by 2050.

Consequences of the glorious British Empire. When you spend a couple of hundred years madly invading half the world you're going to find a lot of people with a familial connection to your country and as much as the little Englanders like Farage might like to you can't pick and choose which person has those ties by the colour of their skin.

 

[Chief]

Most Sunni in the UK i believe

So why not say that in your claims about 25 years into the future?

We can't know what will happen between now and then. An influx of Christians from Africa is on the cards with global warming, for instance. Is that OK with you? Are they the right type of people?

For what it's worth I agree that cultural and religious courts are dangerous territory. I think they can be used to enforce a status quo at the threat of social and financial exclusion by a community.

 

[10571z]

Consequences of the glorious British Empire. When you spend a couple of hundred years madly invading half the world you're going to find a lot of people with a familial connection to your country and as much as the little Englanders like Farage might like to you can't pick and choose which person has those ties by the colour of their skin.

Well you can absolutely control who comes into your country.

 

[Chief]

Well you can absolutely control who comes into your country.

Didn't work for India and Africa.

 

[Gough]

Well you can absolutely control who comes into your country.

You can't give me residency or a passport thanks to an English granddad but deny the same to a Jamaican or a Bangladeshi.

 

[10571z]

You can't give me residency or a passport thanks to an English granddad but deny the same to a Jamaican or a Bangladeshi.

Is that the majority of their Muslim migrants is it...

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Is that the majority of their Muslim migrants is it...

What if the Muslim god is more powerful than Church of England god?