Why wouldnt u take Kreuzer????

[Banga19]

Reading the game - McEvoy

Contested marking - McEvoy

Athleticism - Hampson by a fair margin

Ruckwork - Hampson will be better in the long term by virtue of his athleticism

Kicking and around the ground - McEvoy

Resting up Forward - McEvoy for now, but again I project Hampson will be more effective in the long term.

Despite being younger McEvoy would still have had a lot more footy hours than Hampson. Hampson smashes him in athleticism though and i once he bulks up sufficiently I think Hampson has some enormous room for improvement....more room than McEvoy (or kreuzer for that matter). I would be very surprised if Hampson ever gets to the level of kreuzer with his work around the ground, but at 202cm, with an 80cm leap and sub 3 second 20m he is an exciting prospect. I also hear he was so enthsed and encouraged by his two senior matches that he wanted to start pre-season immediately

Cheers Gilly. I'm a big Hampson fan. I have no real idea who we should take, but I have a huge amount of faith in the Carlton recruiting staff and I'm sure they will make the right the decision.

 

[Salaryman]

Cheers Gilly. I'm a big Hampson fan. I have no real idea who we should take, but I have a huge amount of faith in the Carlton recruiting staff and I'm sure they will make the right the decision.

Don't get me wrong, i will be very happy to have kreuz as well, he and hammo will be a formidable rucking duo. I just think Cotchin is a potential game-breaker and am leaning towards him as the better AFL footballer.

 

[ridethewind]

Colin Wisbey says you should never take ruckman with high draft picks, the theory goes they take so long to develop they are impossible to pick, hence Dean Cox falling through to the rookie list

Of course he also called Billy Morrison the next Wayne Carey as well

It probably is a lottery though, if we had passed on Fraser in 2000 at pick 1 we could have got Pavlich (great) Hasleby (good) Fiora (terrible).. all of them were touted as number 1 in the lead up to the draft at one time or another

 

[gandaal]

Colin Wisbey says you should never take ruckman with high draft picks, the theory goes they take so long to develop they are impossible to pick, hence Dean Cox falling through to the rookie list

Of course he also called Billy Morrison the next Wayne Carey as well

It probably is a lottery though, if we had passed on Fraser in 2000 at pick 1 we could have got Pavlich (great) Hasleby (good) Fiora (terrible).. all of them were touted as number 1 in the lead up to the draft at one time or another

I tend to agree with Wiseby on that account. With ruckman the chance of sucess is far lower, ruck success at AFL level is not directly correlated with height of the draft selection and even if you get a good one more often than not they only at their very best for 4 years compared to a quality midfielder who's likely to give you at least 8-9 years of quality football.

 

[Bluebear]

I tend to agree with Wiseby on that account. With ruckman the chance of sucess is far lower, ruck success at AFL level is not directly correlated with height of the draft selection and even if you get a good one more often than not they only at their very best for 4 years compared to a quality midfielder who's likely to give you at least 8-9 years of quality football.

I think the Lions have shown over the years that you can never have too many quality rucks.......some sucker will alwyas take them off your hands at a premium (1st round pick).

I say take Kreuzer and rotate all the boys through.
Aisake to CHB, Cloke to CHF and Ackland to Essendon.

IN two years time - Hampson and Kreuzer dominating the ruck with Aisake able to pich hit.

 

[doggiesin08]

I know it does nothing this year because of carlton having a priority pick at the start of round 1, but hypothetically if carlton had pick 1 in the rookie draft aswell, would it be possible to land cotchin in the rookie draft. Is there any rule in place stopping a player from nominating for the rookie draft but not the national draft? The bottom club in future years may encourage the 2nd best player in the draft to only nominate for the rookie draft. Whilst National Draft selection players get a minimum of a 2 year contract, im pretty sure rookie draft players only need to be offered 1 year contracts as a minimum. The club could agree with the player to promote him to the senior list and make up the difference between the payment of a rookie to 1st round selection in his 2nd year contract.

 

[Cruiser23]

Just reading this thread, my opinion that Kreuzer must be taken if fading fast, Gilly you are really swaying me. I really think that the decision will somewhat come down to how good the Carlton Footy Club think Aisake can be or will be.

 

[-VC-]

I know it does nothing this year because of carlton having a priority pick at the start of round 1, but hypothetically if carlton had pick 1 in the rookie draft aswell, would it be possible to land cotchin in the rookie draft. Is there any rule in place stopping a player from nominating for the rookie draft but not the national draft? The bottom club in future years may encourage the 2nd best player in the draft to only nominate for the rookie draft. Whilst National Draft selection players get a minimum of a 2 year contract, im pretty sure rookie draft players only need to be offered 1 year contracts as a minimum. The club could agree with the player to promote him to the senior list and make up the difference between the payment of a rookie to 1st round selection in his 2nd year contract.

No, players can't nominate for only the rookie draft. Also in this example Cotchin is too young to be rookie listed anyway. He's bottom aged.

 

[HBF]

Just reading this thread, my opinion that Kreuzer must be taken if fading fast, Gilly you are really swaying me. I really think that the decision will somewhat come down to how good the Carlton Footy Club think Aisake can be or will be.

One thing is for sure though. There is no way on gods green earth that the Carlton recruiting department have settled on their No. 1 selection yet. No way at all.

 

[btdg]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the big question for me with Kreuzer is what position he is going to play. Is he big enough to be a ruckman, or does he rely on athleticism to jump over juniors. Cos in the seniors, that won't cut it. Can he play as a key-position forward? Or is he going to end up being a tweener like Josh Fraser?

If he's going to be an undersized ruckman, in the Josh Fraser/Jeff White mould, I'd rather take Cotchin. We know Cotchin will be good, and you can never, ever have too much midfield depth. Any ruckman is likely to be 3-4 years away from being ready anyway, and 6-7 years away from their peak. A midfielder could step in and contribute in the next 1-2 years, a la Selwood or Marc Murphy.

If the only reason to prefer Kreuzer is that he is a ruckman and we need a ruckman, then that is complete Bollocks. Who knows what we'll need in 3-4 years when these guys peak. Hampson could be the next Cox, Aisake could be the next Jeff White, and we could be set for 10 years in the ruck - or they could both fail, leaving Kreuzer undersized carrying the full load, and never properly developing a la Fraser. If its roughly equal between the two, always, ALWAYS take the midfielder. They are closer to contributing, its easier to predict, and you can't have too many good midfielders.

The closer we get to the draft, the more I want Cotchin. How does a midfield of Judd, Stevens, Murphy, Gibbs, Cotchin, Walker, Simpson, Carazzo sound...

 

[Cruiser23]

One thing is for sure though. There is no way on gods green earth that the Carlton recruiting department have settled on their No. 1 selection yet. No way at all.

agreed

 

[HBF]

The closer we get to the draft, the more I want Cotchin. How does a midfield of Judd, Stevens, Murphy, Gibbs, Cotchin, Walker, Simpson, Carazzo sound...

Spot on mate.
Now there is an A-grade midfield if I have ever seen one.

 

[Dramoth]

Don't get me wrong, i will be very happy to have kreuz as well, he and hammo will be a formidable rucking duo. I just think Cotchin is a potential game-breaker and am leaning towards him as the better AFL footballer.

Kreuz and Hammo as our outright rucking duo with Aisake as our ruck rover

I like that idea.

However, I also love the idea of Cotchin running through the midfield with Murphy and Gibbs all under the watchful eyes of Judd, Stevens and Hadley...

Choices, Choices...

 

[therubbernub]

You don't want to pick a midfielder because we've taken good midfielders previously? I take you'd extend that approach and turn down Daniel Kerr, because we got Judd and Hadley?

Simply put, we don't have many players like Cotchin. Elite midfielders. It'd be a mistake to ignore him because we have a lot of "solid" midfielders. If he's the best available, take him. I guarantee to you, we'll ALWAYS have room for someone as special as Cotchin. Can you imagine Murphy, Gibbs & Cotchin running around in tandem? A trio that talented is unheard of.

nah we dont have many elite midfielders: murphy Gibbs (your choices) Umm..... what about Judd and Stevens to add to your choices. Thats 4 . Doesnt mention walker carrazzo simpson hadley plus others

 

[HBF]

nah we dont have many elite midfielders: murphy Gibbs (your choices) Umm..... what about Judd and Stevens to add to your choices. Thats 4 . Doesnt mention walker carrazzo simpson hadley plus others

I'd love Carlton to have a midfield the envy of every other club in a couple of years. Adding Cotchin would do that.

 

[Salaryman]

I'd love Carlton to have a midfield the envy of every other club in a couple of years. Adding Cotchin would do that.

Spot on, you are basically buying A-grade talent across all lines.....look at Geelong and the luxury of playing Ablett Jnr and Chapman on HFF's .

 

[green_energy]

I really hope the Blues take Cotchin with pick 1. They wont though.

 

[1.AW]

I'm also secretly praying we take Cotchin.

 

[Sublime]

I would be tempted to take Cotchin, and this is why:

As good as Kreuzer is, he might very well turn into the next Josh Fraser. Not that great in the centre square, but can hurt you around the ground with his mobility, and also his willingness to work and get to every contest. He can also go up forward, but he's very much a stay at home FF, and of all the games I have seen him play this year, which would be about 12 or so, i've never really seen him on the lead taking the ball in front of his eyes. He pretty much always takes a contested mark in and around the goal square using his strength to out muscle smaller opponents.

As for Cotchin, he's somewhat a combination of a Gary Ablett Jnr and Chris Judd. Doesn't have the "magic" of Ablett Jnr, but can really hurt you throug the midfield. Can also go forward, is good overhead for a guy who is 185cm, and can kick goals. As for the Judd comparison, just the way he swoops through packs, takes the ball off the ground as clean as anyone, and is away before anyone knows where he is gone.

In one example, during the U18 Carnival out at Princes Park on the outer wing, the ball was in dispute and on the ground. Cotchin came in, scooped the ball up one handed, and with his non-dominant side, cleared the ball and sent it forward for VM. What makes this even more amazing was that it had been raining all day, and the ball was wet and heavy.

So, at the end of the day, you are choosing between a better version of Josh Fraser (Kreuzer), and a kid that has been likened to Ablett Jnr/Judd.

Who would you choose?

If i had to draft from that description of course i'd draft Cotchin, as would pretty much every other person.

See i'm not a huge fan for player comparisons because it pigeon holes players. At the end of the day each player is an individual and its impossible to know how they will pan out in 5, 10 or 15 years. Even the highest rated players can turn into spuds with lack of dedication, injury or even the fact they played against lesser players during their development.

The good thing is that the unknown factor of each player in the draft is what causes all this discussion, and each person develops their own opinion. Lets just hope the people at Carlton who get paid to choose these players toss the coin and the right player ends up with us in this case!

 

[Salaryman]

If i had to draft from that description of course i'd draft Cotchin, as would pretty much every other person.

See i'm not a huge fan for player comparisons because it pigeon holes players. At the end of the day each player is an individual and its impossible to know how they will pan out in 5, 10 or 15 years. Even the highest rated players can turn into spuds with lack of dedication, injury or even the fact they played against lesser players during their development.

The good thing is that the unknown factor of each player in the draft is what causes all this discussion, and each person develops their own opinion. Lets just hope the people at Carlton who get paid to choose these players toss the coin and the right player ends up with us in this case!

Did Dan McKenna tell you that??

 

[Salaryman]

Somebody else (on TC) made this point to me last night, and I am going to steal his thunder (at least I am crediting him)..... Cotchin lists Judd as one of his idols, what better opportunity to get the absolute most out of the kid than to draft him to play with his idol?

 

[one_twelve112]

One thing is for sure though. There is no way on gods green earth that the Carlton recruiting department have settled on their No. 1 selection yet. No way at all.

What makes you think that? Hasn't Swann unmistakebly illuded to drafting Kreuzer at Pick #1 on several occasions?

 

[Aussie Joe]

Why do we need the next Judd when we have the current Judd

Kruezer all the way.

 

[Smell The Glove]

You always need more midfielders.

says Terry Wallace.

 

[WorthTheWaite]

Why do we need the next Judd when we have the current Judd

Kruezer all the way.

Because two Judds are better than one?