Will Collingwood win the flag?

[yeee_haaaa!!!!!]

This thread has turned into a nice sh!t fight. I reckon the only 2 players who would improve the pies on yesterday's performance are pendles obviously and tarrant so that toovey doesn't have to play on darling next time. This latter issue seems to have been lost in the wash a bit - when tarrant withdrew late Coll's structure was thrown right out of whack forcing toovey to play on a giant all day. Massive advantage to eagles but they weren't good enough to take advantage of it. Also need to take into account that half of the pies backline, Reid toovey and shaw, we're all playing their 1st game for a month or more , hence will be much better for the run. As will swan who was playing his 2 nd game in about 6 weeks.

Doubt very much the eagles will be getting that close again if they meet at the G again this year

 

[doppleganger]

I left out Krak cause he's not coming back this year and Nicoski is, (we are talking about season 2012 aren't we)

Better tell Krak that you have written him off.

I left out Didak cause i believe ( and we can agree to disagree) that he's not part of the 22, I reckon Fasolo's passed him

Your opinion.....give me a fit Didak every day of the week, you don't lose class, composure and skill...

and I also believe that Goldsack > Macaffer, other than that, I agree with everything else you said

Of course you would believe that, as Macaffer aint played any footy. When he was fit Macaffer was a vital player in the Pies forward line. Goldsack only got a run up there once there was nobody else left, thankfully he has made the most of his opportunity.

and lastly, yeah fringe players kick almost 50 goals last year like Nicoski, so yes he'd probably knock out Ashton Hams, not Hill, so they have a forward line of Kennedy, Darling, Hill, Nicoski, and Embley come finals time

Almost 50....gee very generous with 41 being almost 50 goals.

Jack Anthony kicked 50 goals in a season....so yes fringe players can have a year out of the bag, Nicoski is a fringe player.

Clearly you don't rate some of the Pies outs....wont change that, but simply not correctly representing players we had sitting in the stands compared to what you listed.

 

[cooldewd]

pies aura of invincibility (if they ever really had one) is well and truly is gone.

eagles will smash them at subi in round 22 and will be a good chance of knocking them off in sept.

pies will be hoping they dont play us in the finals.

Man, I have only just stopped laughing in order to compose myself after reading this posting from someone who is obviously no older than 12.

Some facts for you before beddy byes:

West Coast has:

1/ Lost their last seven in a row against Collingwood

2/ Not beaten Collingwood in Melbourne since 2002 (At Etihad)

3/ Not beaten Collingwood at the MCG since 1995.

Collingwood certainly do not have an aura of invincibility...(only Hawk supporters think their team has that magic potion), but whatever it is that we do have, we certainly have your boys measure, as the stats above amply demonstrate.

Have a good night's sleep!

 

[rhys_22]

only a collingwood supporter would think that ball is a better player than lecras

lecras is the best small forward in the league, ball is a very good midfielder

i'd know which one i'd want

How quickly you've forgotten who broke your precious dawks hearts in last years prelim when you thought you had the game won .I love luke ball,thanks ross,thanks very much

 

[cooldewd]

If Colingwood and West Coast are the two best teams and after watching yesterday's game they don't compare to great Geelong team of the past 5 years.

...and we have a winner for "Most Irrelevent Post of the Year"

Congratulations, but the topic of this thread relates to something else.

Don't worry kiddo, we still respect your mighty Geelong...you are still relevant.

Now hug your teddy bear tight with that thought to gladden your heart.

 

[cooldewd]

Ohhh, that grand final quip really hit home!

Certainly did...just like an improbable 5'11" Leo Barry mark over 6'8" Gardiner in the dying minutes of a GF.

 

[cooldewd]

Yep, the full list Collingwood got smacked by the hawks round 1 then.

News flash for you buddy, Collingwood didn't field a "full team" in round one.

Obviously you had your head shoved up a certain orifice, or you are just plain ignorant. However, the fact is we were missing:

Tarrant - All Australian x 2
Brown - Premiership player
Krakouer - All Australian
McCaffer - Premiership player
Beams - Premiership player - in AA form
Maxwell - Premiership player
Didak - All Australian x 2, Premiership Player
Johnson - Premiership player
Wellingham - Premiership player

Instead we had

Yagmoor - debutant
Paine - debutant
Seedsman - game 2
Sinclair - game 3
Keefe - game 3
Rounds - game 3
Fasolo - game 8

As for your delusions of a "smacking", the Hawks surrendered a five goal lead...and this team full of non contributing kids...seven of whom with under ten games experience versus Hawthorns one, hit the front 20 minutes into the last quarter before fading.

I cannot wait to play Hawthorn again, I really can't.

 

[cooldewd]

Back to the topic...

This topic is rather pointless and silly.

We are barely half way through a season and there are never any certainties.

History is littered with certainties that did not bring home the bacon...off the top of my head:

Collingwood faded last year after looking awesome for about 16 rounds.
Geelong lost the unloseable premiership in 2008.
Essendon the all conquering force capitulated in the prelim in 1999.
North kicked themselves out of a flag in the 1998 GF.
West Coast got stage fright in the 1991 GF when they were clearly the best team in the land.
Hawthorn - the dominant team of the 80's played a shocker in the 87 GF to squander a flag.
Hawthorn kicked themselves out of the GF in 1984 when they held a 23 point lead at 3/4 time that should have been more like 40 plus. The Bombers kicked 9 last quarter goals to pinch it.

That is just off the top of my head...no doubt over the course of VFL/AFL history, there are many more examples.

So, to answer the question...can Collingwood win the premiership this year?

Of course they can.

Will they win the premiership this year?

Ask me in October.

No certainties in life, let alone football where any team is only one or two injuries away from oblivion.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

News flash for you buddy, Collingwood didn't field a "full team" in round one.

Obviously you had your head shoved up a certain orifice, or you are just plain ignorant. However, the fact is we were missing:

Tarrant - All Australian x 2
Brown - Premiership player
Krakouer - All Australian
McCaffer - Premiership player
Beams - Premiership player - in AA form
Maxwell - Premiership player
Didak - All Australian x 2, Premiership Player
Johnson - Premiership player
Wellingham - Premiership player

Instead we had

Yagmoor - debutant
Paine - debutant
Seedsman - game 2
Sinclair - game 3
Keefe - game 3
Rounds - game 3
Fasolo - game 8

As for your delusions of a "smacking", the Hawks surrendered a five goal lead...and this team full of non contributing kids...seven of whom with under ten games experience versus Hawthorns one, hit the front 20 minutes into the last quarter before fading.

I cannot wait to play Hawthorn again, I really can't.

Has Krakouer been All-Australian? Your point is very well made though- it was surreal starting the season with guys like Yagmoor and Paine in the team. I felt as if I'd been in a coma for two years at times watching that game- "what year is this??.. "

 

[tazaa]

I think the grand final preview was played on the weekend.
Cant see any other teams winning interstate to knock out Collingwood or West Coast.

 

[footscore]

I'd be far more confident in West Coast beating Collingwood come September.

Dale Thomas doesn't seem to be a player many thought he'd become a year ago and although he's playing at a very high level, he's not in the same class as Shuey or Darling for example. Those blokes are monsters even though they are listed at around the 6ft'2 mark...their overhead marking and strength in the contest is remarkable for their young age.
Too much reliance on Cloke and big Dawes is simply an average footballer at the best of times.

Collingwood can feel confident given there was no Tarrant, Pendlebury or Didak but the truth is that Tarrant gets beaten more times than not given both his age & injuries which have slowed him down significantly.
Didak is always gong to shit the bed in an important game like a final.

West Coast are missing Embley who is quite easily a better player than Tarrant or Didak. Nicoski and Kennedy are two of their most important players and Schofield has already shown how good he is at stopping the power forwards so I doubt Cloke would get close to 5 goals next time with he and Glass rotating together on Cloke.
The rucks also showed how dominant they are against Jolly who is definitely on his last legs and barely able to run out matches.

 

[jonbe54]

I'd be far more confident in West Coast beating Collingwood come September.

Dale Thomas doesn't seem to be a player many thought he'd become a year ago and although he's playing at a very high level, he's not in the same class as Shuey or Darling for example. Those blokes are monsters even though they are listed at around the 6ft'2 mark...their overhead marking and strength in the contest is remarkable for their young age.
Too much reliance on Cloke and big Dawes is simply an average footballer at the best of times.

Collingwood can feel confident given there was no Tarrant, Pendlebury or Didak but the truth is that Tarrant gets beaten more times than not given both his age & injuries which have slowed him down significantly.
Didak is always gong to shit the bed in an important game like a final.

West Coast are missing Embley who is quite easily a better player than Tarrant or Didak. Nicoski and Kennedy are two of their most important players and Schofield has already shown how good he is at stopping the power forwards so I doubt Cloke would get close to 5 goals next time with he and Glass rotating together on Cloke.
The rucks also showed how dominant they are against Jolly who is definitely on his last legs and barely able to run out matches.

Mmmm its sad when you have to hope other teams will do the job for you isn't it

 

[Mateyman]

I'd be far more confident in West Coast beating Collingwood come September.

Dale Thomas doesn't seem to be a player many thought he'd become a year ago and although he's playing at a very high level, he's not in the same class as Shuey or Darling for example. Those blokes are monsters even though they are listed at around the 6ft'2 mark...their overhead marking and strength in the contest is remarkable for their young age.
Too much reliance on Cloke and big Dawes is simply an average footballer at the best of times.

Collingwood can feel confident given there was no Tarrant, Pendlebury or Didak but the truth is that Tarrant gets beaten more times than not given his age injuries which have slowed him down.
Didak is always gong to shit the bed in an important game like a final.

West Coast are missing Embley who is quite easily a better player than Tarrant or Didak. Nicoski and Kennedy are two of their most important players and Schofield has already shown how good he is at stopping the power forwards so I doubt Cloke would get close to 5 goals next time with he and Glass rotating together on Cloke.
The rucks also showed how dominant they are against Jolly who is definitely on his last legs and barely able to run out matches.

Tarrant is very important to our defence, because he stops Toovey having to play on the third tall (Darling), which was a mismatch yesterday. Pendlebury is also widely considered in the top 2/3 in the competition and his influence would add a LOT of polish. As many others have said, we also had a very rusty back 6 due to the amount of time they've been injured. Krakouer and Johnson (we really missed his rebound on Saturday) also have a chance of coming back this year (I think Johnson is more of a chance due to the nature of his injury)

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

i understand your argument mate but obviously you think 25players will fit into 22

I'm not disputing the fact that the pies have incredible depth, it's one of the reasons why you're still winning with all the bad run with injuries

but didak, krak and macaffer aren't all going to player together, what about blair and fasolo

i cant believe you guys are harping on about macaffer he's played like 5 games in 1.5 years of footy, geez talk about talking yourselves up, you tell me who he's gonna replace and i'll apologise

cause it looks like you were running krak, blair and fasolo last year with dids used as a sub alot (he didn't play that many games)

and then you guys go on about sinclair, he'll be out of the side when collingwood's full strenght

your backline is reid, brown, maxwell, clarke, harry o, toovey and shaw
so you've got either one of tarrant or keefe missing, not 2 players cause you've only got one more defender you can fit into the side, you can't have both, so dont give me crap about 2 players coming back into only one available spot in the 22

i really really hate it when ppl talk about fringe players like they're superstars and trying to fit 30 players into 22, you have alot of injuries but a fair few of those players are not in your best 22 so don't try to talk them up like they're superstars (i.e macaffer, sinclair, keefe)

The problem we have had this year is that our team never remains the same from one week to the next. Particularly the backline. Have a look at the changes we make every week, it has to have an effect on performance, and I think the backline has been the worst affected. It just so happens that this was the area we were poor in against West Coast. Not so much allowing goals, as not rebounding well, or not nearly as well as Waters and Hurn were for West Coast. I think if we have Tarrant back that frees up Reid to be the loose man and use his kicking to advantage and that makes us a much stronger team.
The Pendlebury out is an interesting one. He is our most important player imo. Even more important than Cloke, but comparing Pendles out to Schofield, Kennedy and Embley is an impossible task. We wont know how much they mean until they come back and play each other once more.
I am not afraid at all of playing West Coast at Subi with Tarrant, Pendles and hopefully Didak and Benny Johnson (crucial to us for smooth rebound off half back) back later in the year. Not to say that we will definitely win, but I think only a fool would think we wouldn't be extremely competitive.

 

[Off The Couch]

I'm shocked we have seen the reappearance of Kiss Stephanie based on all the pie supporters who are up and about after a win over the other premiership favourite. Then again maybe she learnt her lesson in 2011.

 

[footscore]

Tarrant is very important to our defence, because he stops Toovey having to play on the third tall (Darling), which was a mismatch yesterday. Pendlebury is also widely considered in the top 2/3 in the competition and his influence would add a LOT of polish. As many others have said, we also had a very rusty back 6 due to the amount of time they've been injured. Krakouer and Johnson (we really missed his rebound on Saturday) also have a chance of coming back this year (I think Johnson is more of a chance due to the nature of his injury)

no question Pendlebury would add a bit as I rate him the best midfielder in the comp right now. I still feel as though the backline isn't as efficient or as coherent without Davis and I know Johnson is the closest player to that zip/speed but he's really struggling to stay on the park these days.

Krakouer would be an enormous influence even if he's not match fit. Those type of players only need 3 or 4 opportunities to snag 2 goals from nothing and more importantly, they demand a quality defender which allows Fasolo, Sidebottom or even Toovey a little extra space.

Just my opinion is all, but I don't feel Collingwood are the same team they were in 2010 or last year. That fear-factor they generated before a team walked out on the ground is gone like it is with Geelong.
These interstate teams have gone up a couple of notches in 2012 and it was no more evident than the way they thought back from over 4 goals down and then took the lead only to lose it by a few points on Saturday night.

 

[Mateyman]

I'm shocked we have seen the reappearance of Kiss Stephanie based on all the pie supporters who are up and about after a win over the other premiership favourite. Then again maybe she learnt her lesson in 2011.

What is "Kiss Stephanie"? I think us Pie supporters are allowed to be up after a good win though. None of us are saying we will win the premiership, we are just happy about how we're going along and rate ourselves a chance, like another 3 or more sides who could win the flag.

 

[Mateyman]

no question Pendlebury would add a bit as I rate him the best midfielder in the comp right now. I still feel as though the backline isn't as efficient or as coherent without Davis and I know Johnson is the closest player to that zip/speed but he's really struggling to stay on the park these days.

Krakouer would be an enormous influence even if he's not match fit. Those type of players only need 3 or 4 opportunities to snag 2 goals from nothing and more importantly, they demand a quality defender which allows Fasolo, Sidebottom or even Toovey a little extra space.

Just my opinion is all, but I don't feel Collingwood are the same team they were in 2010 or last year. That fear-factor they generated before a team walked out on the ground is gone like it is with Geelong.
These interstate teams have gone up a couple of notches in 2012 and it was no more evident than the way they thought back from over 4 goals down and then took the lead only to lose it by a few points on Saturday night.

Yeah, I agree with all this

 

[Morris Major]

It's not uncommon, when a team is going well all the sidelined players suddenly become A+++ grade.

Having said that, Pies are surely the clear favourites right now. I can't see anyone challenging them especially if they finish top 2 so they get to play at the G. The kids have been very impressive and as a team they've made the absence of Swan/Pendles during the season a non-issue. Hawthorn may be a factor if they manage to keep up their form, but until they're in the top 4 they don't worry Collingwood.

Kennedy, Nicoski, Embley and Schofield will add a lot to the Eagles as well, but I don't know when they'll get back and whether it'll be in time. Between them and Collingwood are the two best teams in the comp IMO, hopefully they finish 1 and 2 so they can meet in the GF.

 

[Gone Critical]

I'd be far more confident in West Coast beating Collingwood come September.

I understand Sat gave WCE supporters a piece of substantial evidence that they are in this years flag up to their ears. So I have no problems with your 1st sentence. That's your opinion

Your evidence is mistake ridden drivel. "Shuey is a monster even though listed as 6'2"". That just wrong. He is listed at 183 cm, 2cm less than Thomas. Thomas had a better year last year, AA, but it's a bit of a stretch to suggest Shuey and Darling have gone straight past him in class.

Didak's always been a good finals player, on occasions a match winner

McKenzie and Glass will play again on Cloke and Dawes as they have in the past. Schofield may help them like Tarrant will help us. Schofield alone being added to the mix doesn't stop Cloke. If our midfield is on song, and Pendles will be back, Cloke will get plenty of opportunity

Jolly is improving as the season goes, Sat was possibly his best for the season, very similar to how he built up in season 2010 when he was crucial to our flag. He was worse early 2010 than he has been this year. Very happy with how he is tracking

Embley, Tarrant and Didak. All veterans, all great careers, all coming back from injury. Don't see why Embley is easily better

WCE v Coll, next one should be a cracker as should any finals match up

 

[Xsess]

There are five teams within a game of each other at the pointy end of the ladder. All of them are contenders. The flag will come down to who gets ladder position at the end of the home and away season and who gets the rub of the green at the right time of the year when it comes to injuries, form and the vagarities of the MRP. Despite all the hot air, close games like the WCE / Woods one are flips of a coin and there will be more of them during this years finals series (although there was definate finalsesque style to that game). Talking about who's not on the park or who WILL be better in future is irrelevent, there's nothing to suggest that getting players back wont be offset by losing others.

 

[Koki Freelander]

Big Footy is a very sad place sometimes.

The idea that this game will matter come September is absurd. Clearly Collingwood and WC are travelling quite well.

The funniest claims are made by those claiming that the top 2 teams are shit without stopping to think what that must mean for the teams they support. You are basically calling your own teams shit!

 

[Gazeah78]

Jack Anthony kicked 50 goals in a season....so yes fringe players can have a year out of the bag, Nicoski is a fringe player.

He played 25 games for us last season. Was one of our best and was never in danger of being dropped. Not sure how this qualifies him as a fringe player?

 

[Hagla]

I'm shocked we have seen the reappearance of Kiss Stephanie based on all the pie supporters who are up and about after a win over the other premiership favourite. Then again maybe she learnt her lesson in 2011.

Haha I'd forgotten all about Kiss Stephanie. Is she still around? I can't remember seeing her posting lately and it's not the sort of posting you would miss. The Queen of multi quoting.

 

[doppleganger]

He played 25 games for us last season. Was one of our best and was never in danger of being dropped. Not sure how this qualifies him as a fringe player?

The fact that he has only had one real good year. Which compares with blokes like Krak, Didak and Macaffer who the Hawks bloke doesn't rate as important outs.

Krak played 23 games in 2011, was rested for 2.....yet he is not a vital out.
Macaffer played 20 games in 2010, aint been able to get on the park since...yet he is not a vital out.
Didak is dual AA, BnF etc....yet he is not a vital out.