Will you download the Covid19 app?

[BFew]

Who has downloaded the app? Wondering what permissions it asks for when you download it.

None on an iPhone. (I can recall)

But you can go into the iPhone settings area and find the settings related to that App and manually turn off a few things, including it's access to bluetooth, and mobile data.

 

[Gigantic]

Exposure draft - Privacy Amendment (Public Health Contact Information) Bill 2020

We have developed draft legislation, the Privacy Amendment (Public Health Contact Information) Bill 2020, to support the COVIDSafe app and provide strong ongoing privacy protections.

www.ag.gov.au

They've finally released a draft of the legal protections

I've quickly gone through and they look decent and have most of what they said they would include

 

[Gralin]

Exposure draft - Privacy Amendment (Public Health Contact Information) Bill 2020

We have developed draft legislation, the Privacy Amendment (Public Health Contact Information) Bill 2020, to support the COVIDSafe app and provide strong ongoing privacy protections.

www.ag.gov.au

They've finally released a draft of the legal protections

I've quickly gone through and they look decent and have most of what they said they would include

Yeah we seem to be getting most of what they promise.
It's the things we aren't getting that worry me.

 

[BFew]

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

No Cookies

www.dailytelegraph.com.au

Strathfield Council unlawfully forces employees to download the COVIDSafe app to work phones
Staff at a Sydney council have been forced to install the federal government’s coronavirus contact tracing app on their work smartphones even if they objected, which is in breach of a recent determination made under the Biosecurity Act...
Every employee at the Strathfield Council was last week ordered to download the COVIDSafe app onto their supplied work device even if they had objections to the technology, which is in contradiction to a recent determination made by Health Minister Greg Hunt under the Biosecurity Act....

No action has been taken by police regarding the email.
In an email, seen by The Daily Telegraph, sent to staff on April 27, the council’s chief executive Henry Wong said, “if you have a council provided mobile device, you are required to download the app by the (close of business) today”
“The sooner we achieve downloads better than 40 per of the entire population, the sooner we can get back to normal,” Mr Wong said in the email marked “high” importance.Later that day Mr Wong then emailed the council’s human resources team, instructing them to make sure staff had followed the instruction.
“Please check that everyone has downloaded the app on their council mobile device,” he said.

“He maintains that as CEO his call for work assets to have the app installed is a lawful direction and reasonable given the mandate issued by the National Cabinet and the PM,” she said....

The federal government will introduce legislation next week to reinforce the Biosecurity Act order protecting people’s right to refuse to use the app.

“Criminal offences under the Bill can be investigated by the Australian Federal Police,” he said.

Does that mean, that if no-one at Stratfield Council complains to the Federal Police about the directive, then the AFP won't investigate?

News Corp media publicising this today, and the alleged no Police action taken, might be a cunning plan to encourage other private and public sector employers to do likewise today or tomorrow, to assist get the download numbers up before Friday's National Cabinet meeting, in the hope that this will give the State/Federal Governments more ammo to convince everyone of the merits of opening up more/sooner, and make them look more successful at achieving their COVIDSafe App KPI's + save lives/ill-health, jobs, strain on medical resources etc.

I would have thought that the whole process of how/when the AFP is to take Police action of this type of apparent breach of the Biosecurity Act, would still be evolving due to the legislation reinforcing the Biosecurity Act not being law yet, and the processes around the AFP enforcing it, maybe not yet fully agreed or signed off on yet. And certainly not tested, due to the newness of the whole situation.

Stratfield Council is probably not the first organisation in Australia to do this and refuse to back down (reportedly, at this stage).

“He maintains that as CEO his call for work assets to have the app installed is a lawful direction and reasonable given the mandate issued by the National Cabinet and the PM,” she said.
The spokeswoman said Mr Wong believed it was appropriate to require installation of the app as a “responsible employer of staff who provide essential services to the community”.
“The App installed on Council’s owned devices will provide the means for the rapid contact tracing and stopping the spread of COVID-19 from unknown sources involving key staff, and therefore would protect Council’s entire workforce,” she said.

I can envisage employers large and small being prepared to challenge this in Court if prosecuted, by insisting that they have a right to install whatever Apps they want on their Assets that their workers use in order to protect the health and safety of their workers, and that not even the Biosecurity App can take this right away.

I speculatively daresay, that (maybe) until there is a test case from a successful AFP prosecution of an employer under the bio-security act on this, that no employer who does what Stratfield Council has done will get fined/jailed as a result of it. (this is not legal or advice to employers). Only possibly employers that do it, after the first case is tested in court, and the result publicised, depending what the result of that case is (and any subsequent appeals process).

It will be interesting to see if the Federal Attorney General makes a statement on this today to give a clear indication on whether what the CEO of Stratfield Council has done, is in what the Federal Attorney General and his legal team, see, is a clear breach of the Biosecurity Act, and whether CEO Wong is going to be used of an example, to demonstrate the powers of the Act in being immediately referred to the AFP for prosecution, at the direction of the Federal Attorney General.

 

[JackOutback]

I would assume that as the phones belong to the council, they are within their rights to download whatever apps it sees fit. The phone doesn't belong to the employee. It would be an interesting flashpoint if employee simply refused to take the work phone home or anywhere private.

 

[Gralin]

I would assume that as the phones belong to the council, they are within their rights to download whatever apps it sees fit. The phone doesn't belong to the employee. It would be an interesting flashpoint if employee simply refused to take the work phone home or anywhere private.

It's illegal

 

[JackOutback]

It's illegal

Is it? It's illegal to force someone to download it on their phone. As I am reading it, the council owns the phones and has chosen to install it company-wide. Is it any different from automatic updates on to staff computers? You don't get a say on that.

There's a grey issue as a lot of people treat work phones as personal phones, they may feel they are required to carry the phone and therefore have been forced to carry the app in private time etc. It's an early test of the legislation.

 

[Gralin]

Is it? It's illegal to force someone to download it on their phone. As I am reading it, the council owns the phones and has chosen to install it company-wide. Is it any different from automatic updates on to staff computers? You don't get a say on that.

There's a grey issue as a lot of people treat work phones as personal phones, they may feel they are required to carry the phone and therefore have been forced to carry the app in private time etc. It's an early test of the legislation.

It is illegal for an employer to force usage of the app on employees

 

[BFew]

It is illegal for an employer to force usage of the app on employees

That's what our PM reportedly said, and the opinion of (some?) legal firms at the moment.

COVIDSafe: Can your boss make you download the app?

Millions of Australians have downloaded the COVIDSafe app, but is it legal for your boss to force you to download it?

au.news.yahoo.com

... But can you be forced to download the COVIDSafe app?
No, and that means your boss can’t force you to download it, either as a requirement to come back to an office space or just as a general workplace rule.
The Australian Council of Trade Unions (ACTU) said while the app has “wide acceptance as a useful tool”, you can’t be required to download the app onto either a personal or company-owned device.
“Nor can an employer take action against you for reasons that include a failure to download the app. You should contact your union immediately if you have been disadvantaged at work for failing to download the app,” the ACTU said.

But that doesn’t mean your boss can’t encourage you to download it, Morrison said.
“It can't be a requirement, that's prevented under the legal arrangements, but we are encouraging... it within the Commonwealth public service,” he said...

COVIDSafe: can an employer direct employees to download or use the…

More than 4 million Australians have downloaded the Federal Government’s digital contact tracing app ‘COVIDSafe’ since it was launched on 26 April. Many…

hallandwilcox.com.au

On 25 April 2020, the Health Minister made a determination under the Biosecurity Act 2015 (Cth), which sets out a range of restrictions to protect information collected by the app and to ensure use of the app is voluntary (Biosecurity Determination)

What does this mean for employers?

The Biosecurity Determination prohibits employers (and other persons) from requiring another person to download, or use COVIDSafe, on a mobile telecommunications device. The Biosecurity Determination makes no reference to the ownership of the ‘mobile telecommunications device’ or to the purpose for which the device is used.
This means that while an employer may encourage their employees to download or use COVIDSafe, they cannot direct employees (or any other person) to download or use COVIDSafe, either on a personal mobile device or on a mobile device provided by the employer for business use.
In our view employers could not go so far as to recall employer-provided devices from employees and unilaterally install the app on such devices themselves (or install the app on new employer-provided devices for issuance) because the Biosecurity Determination ultimately gives employees the right to freely choose themselves whether to download, and use, COVIDSafe.

What does this mean for employers?

The Biosecurity Determination prohibits employers (and other persons) from requiring another person to download, or use COVIDSafe, on a mobile telecommunications device. The Biosecurity Determination makes no reference to the ownership of the ‘mobile telecommunications device’ or to the purpose for which the device is used.
This means that while an employer may encourage their employees to download or use COVIDSafe, they cannot direct employees (or any other person) to download or use COVIDSafe, either on a personal mobile device or on a mobile device provided by the employer for business use.

In our view

employers could not go so far as to recall employer-provided devices from employees and unilaterally install the app on such devices themselves (or install the app on new employer-provided devices for issuance) because the Biosecurity Determination ultimately gives employees the right to freely choose themselves whether to download, and use, COVIDSafe.

Did Stratfield Council (NSW) CEO Wong even bother to get independent legal advice on this?

IMO, Stratfield Council CEO Wong should be sacked by the Council, for what he is reported to have done regarding the COVIDSafe App.
(assuming that he was not directed to do this under a resolution/directive from a Councillors meeting, in which case he should have refused the directive).

 

[JackOutback]

It is illegal for an employer to force usage of the app on employees

Looking at the wording, it does seem clear that it is an offence to require someone to download the app to a mobile phone. But there is no mention of employers or company phones, just the blanket wording. I have a feeling they didn't factor in the idea of people carrying phones that don't belong to them.

 

[Gralin]

Looking at the wording, it does seem clear that it is an offence to require someone to download the app to a mobile phone. But there is no mention of employers or company phones, just the blanket wording. I have a feeling they didn't factor in the idea of people carrying phones that don't belong to them.

Read the post above yours.

 

[peternorth]

Who has downloaded the app? Wondering what permissions it asks for when you download it.

raises hand. havent opened it yet.

does it work on tablets?

 

[BFew]

Federal Health Department has now reportedly commenced an investigation into NSW's Stratfield Council.

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

No Cookies

www.dailytelegraph.com.au

Health Department investigating Strathfield Council for unlawfully forcing employees to download the COVIDSafe app to work phones

Health Department officials are investigating claims staff at a Sydney council were forced to install the federal government’s coronavirus contact tracing app on their work smartphones even if they objected.
.. May 6, 2020 11:25am..

... The federal Health Department is investigating the council after The Daily Telegraph revealed the council’s chief executive Henry Wong had issued a directive to all staff telling them to download the COVIDSafe app onto their supplied work device, even if they had objections to the technology.

 

[BFew]

Wong is clearly in the wrong.
Hunt has spoken to the media on this.
The Council and their CEO are going to be in big trouble over this.
Hope Wong stands his ground and is sacked.

As the day unfolded: COVIDSafe downloads top 5 million as Scott Morrison flags road to economic recovery, global COVID-19 cases surpass 3.6 million as Australian death toll stands at 97

If you suspect you or a family member has coronavirus you should call (not visit) your GP or ring the national Coronavirus Health Information Hotline on 1800 020 080.

www.smh.com.au

Strathfield Council under investigation for allegedly making workers download app
Strathfield Council is under investigation by the federal Department of Health following reports it required its employees to download the government's coronavirus contact tracing app.
The Daily Telegraph reported yesterday that council workers were being told they would need to download the app onto their work smartphones.
Addressing media this morning, federal Health Minister Greg Hunt said, although privacy legislation creating jail terms and tough fines for misuse of the app's data is not being put to Parliament until next week, coercing someone to download the app was still illegal under the Biosecurity Act.
"It is illegal to coerce anybody to download the app," he said.

"The Department of Health is investigating and I've had this confirmed to me by the secretary of the department today.
"They will be investigating and they will make absolutely clear that, if this is accurate, it is unacceptable and further steps will be taken if it is not rectified immediately."

 

[Gigantic]

There clearly needs to be better guidance on this.

It's clearly illegal where an employer directs employees to manually download the app. But what about, where the phone is company-owned and the app is pushed out via a mobile device policy that automatically downloads it onto the device?

 

[JackOutback]

Read the post above yours.

I did, that's the lawyers' interpretation, I also read the draft legislation and there was no mention of 'employee-provided' phones. Simply the catch-all that it is illegal to require someone to download the app. As I said, that would mean the council has acted illegally, but I think they drafted this without realising the scale of people that would have phones 'owned' by someone else.

 

[JackOutback]

There clearly needs to be better guidance on this.

It's clearly illegal where an employer directs employees to manually download the app. But what about, where the phone is company-owned and the app is pushed out via a mobile device policy that automatically downloads it onto the device?

Exactly; what if a company installs it on all its phones, then hires someone and gives him said phone.

 

[Gralin]

I did, that's the lawyers' interpretation, I also read the draft legislation and there was no mention of 'employee-provided' phones. Simply the catch-all that it is illegal to require someone to download the app. As I said, that would mean the council has acted illegally, but I think they drafted this without realising the scale of people that would have phones 'owned' by someone else.

It's illegal to make them register the app, so whats the point of putting it on their phones and telling them it is mandatory?

It's not allowed to be mandatory to work

 

[JackOutback]

It's illegal to make them register the app, so whats the point of putting it on their phones and telling them it is mandatory?

It's not allowed to be mandatory to work

I think you're missing the potential grey area. What if I buy five mobile phones, they are mine, so I download the app and register it on all five phones. Someone then asks if they can borrow a phone so I give it to them for a bit. Have I broken a law even though the new person will be being traced? Extend that to companies, they buy 200 mobile phones, download the app and register it in their name, hand it out to employees as and when they join. They haven't forced them to download it, but do they need to inform them? Because that is definitely not covered in the legislation I read.

 

[Gralin]

I think you're missing the potential grey area. What if I buy five mobile phones, they are mine, so I download the app and register it on all five phones. Someone then asks if they can borrow a phone so I give it to them for a bit. Have I broken a law even though the new person will be being traced? Extend that to companies, they buy 200 mobile phones, download the app and register it in their name, hand it out to employees as and when they join. They haven't forced them to download it, but do they need to inform them? Because that is definitely not covered in the legislation I read.

you're suggesting the company is registering the app on behalf of the end user?
100% illegal

 

[Gralin]

well if the legislation is passed.....

 

[JackOutback]

you're suggesting the company is registering the app on behalf of the end user?
100% illegal

I haven't downloaded the app nor registered, so don't know the process. It certainly appears to be illegal on face value as the registration is linked to the user rather than the phone. Just not surprised that a council thought since it owned the phone, it could download the app on to its property, given it's not explicitly outlined in the legislation as far as I could see. That, and the legislation hasn't even passed, as you rightly pointed out.

 

[Gigantic]

 

[Gralin]

They won't give that guarantee because they can't give that guarantee

That's what happens when you pick Amazon to host though.

 

[JackOutback]

They couldn't give that guarantee if an Australian firm was involved because it could still be hacked. They have made it a criminal offence to take the data outside Australia, so there's that at least.