Preview Saints Geelong R2, Saturday, 7:35 PM

[The_Steadier]

We can have a full strength team and if the pressure isn't applied we will still go down. Watched the Hawks v Blues game tonight and it was a finals like game.

Hawks 220 on the pressure scale midway through the 4th quarter was outrages. I wouldn't have thought last week we hit over 170.

Hawks had 1 tall forward in Chol with the rest of them smalls. Apply manic pressure and everything else falls into place position wise. You don't, and they will make you look like a training drill ala crows last week.

We tried that a couple of years ago remember?

We were on top of the ladder after 6 or so rounds- running teams ragged, pressure off the scale etc.

The problem with that is- you also run yourself ragged.

It's a long season- manic pressure alone is not a sustainable/winning gameplan.

Our skills are the biggest thing killing us, not effort or run/pressure.

Our pressure and run evaporates because we spend half the game chasing (in vein) opponents after we turn it over due to poor skills.

 

[The_Steadier]

Moot

 

[stavro#4]

The key thing with playing with 4 or 5 small fwds is how you move the ball and their ability to get up and down the ground. Our ball movement would have to improve dramatically to make it feasible. Maybe the back end of last year showed we’re capable. But certainly not on last weeks form

Our ball movement tends to reflect how we are travelling during games.

The second half of last season… we were fun to watch and we were exciting.

There wasn’t some secret sauce to it. We brought the pressure and our game came to the fore from there. Same against Carlton a month ago. Been missing v the power and the crows.

Where is our selection integrity???

Correct me if Im wrong, but from training and VFL reports Collard has hardly deserved a call up to the AFL side? Most pundits have questioned as to whether he will even make it. I cant find a legitimate reason justifying Collard's selection over others, how does he go from being rated so poorly to getting a game?

More examples of how seriously amiss the club selections are at present -

• Playing under done players last week Marshall, Clark and Jones back fired.
• Shoenmaker reportedly continued to struggle with the defensive side of his game yet gets a game, only to be dropped the following week?
• Hastie has a red hot crack when a lot of the senior players are going at 70% gets the chop? The kid is good over head, a good kick yet for some ridiculous reason he is the fall guy for teams apathetic efforts. Lyon preaches he is creating an environment to allow kids to grow while make mistakes and be ok with it, but does exactly the opposite with Angus.
• Hill didnt look like he wanted to be out there against the Crows, in short his efforts were piss weak! Yet they sub off a kid who was having a crack? Hypocrisy at its worst when Lyon was critical of the teams effort.
• Steele is meant to be a club leader and his efforts were only marginally better than Hill's?
• Blind Freddy could see we needed to move Caminiti to defence but the club thought better?
• Boxshall sets the world on fire in practice games, yet when others are struggling he is over looked??
• Stocker was having a great preseason yet gets over looked in our first game?

How can the coaches expect player accountability when they are not adhering to the same expectations in selection? The club (Lyon) lacks consistency and integrity in its selection and smacks of a group under pressure making poor decisions in my view. Lyon is being shown to be a complete hyercrit preaching one thing in his media outings and doing the exact opposite at selection.

I think it's purely that he's the last small forward standing.

None of us saw that VFL practice game. He must of done something right.

From what I’ve seen of lance. He is as big a confidence player as I may have ever seen.

It wouldn’t surprise me if he kicked one early and then brought into the defensive side of stuff. Got 1 or 2 HTBs and a goal assist and just looked good.

He wouldn’t be playing if he was last man standing. Ross has never done that.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

The Collard selection could end up being a master stroke if we can get the ball down there enough.

 

[Ads734]

We need to get some back up talls in because there is a massive hole. Liam McMahon, Denver Grainger-Barass anyone. Just get some one temporarily. No one expected much from Wilkie or Marshall.

The difference is they were unknown quantities

 

[Ads734]

Our ball movement tends to reflect how we are travelling during games.

The second half of last season… we were fun to watch and we were exciting.

There wasn’t some secret sauce to it. We brought the pressure and our game came to the fore from there. Same against Carlton a month ago. Been missing v the power and the crows.




None of us saw that VFL practice game. He must of done something right.

From what I’ve seen of lance. He is as big a confidence player as I may have ever seen.

It wouldn’t surprise me if he kicked one early and then brought into the defensive side of stuff. Got 1 or 2 HTBs and a goal assist and just looked good.

He wouldn’t be playing if he was last man standing. Ross has never done that.

I would love someone to just gift him an over the top goal. Would just do wonders for him.

 

[The Jack]

That 19 disposal's included a match saving smother, a handball to Higgins out of congestion that resulted in the match winning goal. Constant gut-running throughout that game, a goal after bursting out of the centre to recieve a kick from Hill. And was Sainter of the Round. As I said, you have short memories.

So poor old Jack Higgins has been copping all the heat for us dropping back 2 spots in the draft, when it was really actually all Zac's fault.

 

[gringo2011]

The difference is they were unknown quantities

They were both playing state league footy. Plenty don’t mature before being cut.

 

[Saintbloke]

Our ball movement tends to reflect how we are travelling during games.

The second half of last season… we were fun to watch and we were exciting.

There wasn’t some secret sauce to it. We brought the pressure and our game came to the fore from there. Same against Carlton a month ago. Been missing v the power and the crows.




None of us saw that VFL practice game. He must of done something right.

From what I’ve seen of lance. He is as big a confidence player as I may have ever seen.

It wouldn’t surprise me if he kicked one early and then brought into the defensive side of stuff. Got 1 or 2 HTBs and a goal assist and just looked good.

He wouldn’t be playing if he was last man standing. Ross has never done that.

A mate saw a lot of that game and said Lance didn't do much and there were better players, though didn't mention names.

 

[Remboy]

I would love someone to just gift him an over the top goal. Would just do wonders for him.

I'd be happy to stand in the goal square if the players are going to gift goals.

 

[SteeleSaints]

None of us saw that VFL practice game. He must of done something right.

From what I’ve seen of lance. He is as big a confidence player as I may have ever seen.

It wouldn’t surprise me if he kicked one early and then brought into the defensive side of stuff. Got 1 or 2 HTBs and a goal assist and just looked good.

He wouldn’t be playing if he was last man standing. Ross has never done that.

True I didnt see the game but Ive seen enough of Collard to know he is not going to magically change overnight.

Lyon has a myriad of selection disasters, for me it's his biggest failing as a coach. To suggest Collard wouldnt be playing because Lyon has "never done that" is laughable head in the sand stuff.

There is no doubt Lance is a talented goal kicker, but playing any level of footy is much more than that. Picking Collard could under mine and create divisions between the coaches and playing group. It smacks of hypocrisy in my view...

 

[akaifu]

True I didnt see the game but Ive seen enough of Collard to know he is not going to magically change overnight.

Lyon has a myriad of selection disasters, for me it's his biggest failing as a coach. To suggest Collard wouldnt be playing because Lyon has "never done that" is laughable head in the sand stuff.

There is no doubt Lance is a talented goal kicker, but playing any level of footy is much more than that. Picking Collard could under mine and create divisions between the coaches and playing group. It smacks of hypocrisy in my view...

Who are you picking over Collard though?

And don't say Boxshall - they are completely different types of players

 

[stavro#4]

True I didnt see the game but Ive seen enough of Collard to know he is not going to magically change overnight.

Lyon has a myriad of selection disasters, for me it's his biggest failing as a coach. To suggest Collard wouldnt be playing because Lyon has "never done that" is laughable head in the sand stuff.

There is no doubt Lance is a talented goal kicker, but playing any level of footy is much more than that. Picking Collard could under mine and create divisions between the coaches and playing group. It smacks of hypocrisy in my view...

So which other selections have been head in the sand? Because I genuinely can’t recall them since his return

 

[70s sainter]

Re giving Marshall , Sinclair games last week as well as giving hill a game again this week . They had to come back and play their first game some time. Do you think geelong would’ve preferred we played them or rested them .
They’re all in our top 10 .
Do you think it isn’t gonna benefit them next week even ?
Truth is we were never gonna beat Adelaide.
There is such a thing as playing players into form for the team’s benefit down the track.

 

[akaifu]

Re giving Marshall , Sinclair games last week as well as giving hill a game again this week . They had to come back and play their first game some time. Do you think geelong would’ve preferred we played them or rested them .
They’re all in our top 10 .
Do you think it isn’t gonna benefit them next week even ?
Truth is we were never gonna beat Adelaide.
There is such a thing as playing players into form for the team’s benefit down the track.

Row was also moving ok until he copped a knock to his knee in the first quarter. So for people saying he looked proppy - it could've just been a stinger that got better the next day or two

So was Sinclair, but he was shit because he's always shit when he plays midfield. We need him at half back full time imo

 

[D2D3]

Anyone know what Hastie did to A) get subbed after 50 mins and B) get dropped for the following week?

All impressions were he was one of our shining lights in pre-season… now seemingly exited from the team after 50 mins of footy.

Ross likes Connolly more and we picked to many half back flankers is the real reason.

 

[akaifu]

Assuming things go to plan, our entire 2023 draft class of 7 kids would've played a game by Round 2 of their second seasons

That's a bloody good return so far

 

[SteeleSaints]

So which other selections have been head in the sand? Because I genuinely can’t recall them since his return

Suggesting Lyon has never done that before was the quote I took issue with. When he has a long history of playing favourites, favouring senior players over performing kids, playing injured players and playing players too early when returning from injury.

Ill say it again its his biggest short coming as a coach and always has been. Its that ordinary he should exclude himself from the selection committee particularly when the side is struggling.

Go back 2 years when Collard initially played, there is no way he deserved those games. They played him to appease him as he was home sick, to give him some hope. Well Keeler and Heath have been on the list for 3-4 years busting a gut and they haven't been gifted games. Its the complete double standards that shytes me.

 

[Rogue Warrior]

Where is our selection integrity???

Correct me if Im wrong, but from training and VFL reports Collard has hardly deserved a call up to the AFL side? Most pundits have questioned as to whether he will even make it. I cant find a legitimate reason justifying Collard's selection over others, how does he go from being rated so poorly to getting a game?

More examples of how seriously amiss the club selections are at present -

• Playing under done players last week Marshall, Clark and Jones back fired.
• Shoenmaker reportedly continued to struggle with the defensive side of his game yet gets a game, only to be dropped the following week?
• Hastie has a red hot crack when a lot of the senior players are going at 70% gets the chop? The kid is good over head, a good kick yet for some ridiculous reason he is the fall guy for teams apathetic efforts. Lyon preaches he is creating an environment to allow kids to grow while make mistakes and be ok with it, but does exactly the opposite with Angus.
• Hill didnt look like he wanted to be out there against the Crows, in short his efforts were piss weak! Yet they sub off a kid who was having a crack? Hypocrisy at its worst when Lyon was critical of the teams effort.
• Steele is meant to be a club leader and his efforts were only marginally better than Hill's?
• Blind Freddy could see we needed to move Caminiti to defence but the club thought better?
• Boxshall sets the world on fire in practice games, yet when others are struggling he is over looked??
• Stocker was having a great preseason yet gets over looked in our first game?

How can the coaches expect player accountability when they are not adhering to the same expectations in selection? The club (Lyon) lacks consistency and integrity in its selection and smacks of a group under pressure making poor decisions in my view. Lyon is being shown to be a complete hyercrit preaching one thing in his media outings and doing the exact opposite at selection.

I agree with a lot of the points above. But I went back to try and pick alternatives. There was genuinely very few options at the coaches disposal.

Stocker definitely should have played.

But we had 2 shit options:

• play average and/or underdone experienced players.
• or play a heap of kids.

You can definitely tip over the edge and have too much youth and too much inexperience. Which arguably we already had last weekend. So playing even more kids would have only made things worse. We need to blood kids but not put them out like lambs to the slaughter and destroy their confidence. Melbourne did that with Watts, Scully, Trengrove

 

[The Punter]

Stocker is the one selection mistake last week for me. Not that he would have made too much difference, but I couldn't quite understand why he didn't play. I think he would have been a much safer bet than O'Connell, but I understand why the Irishman was rewarded and he can now say he's played an AFL game. I hope if he returns to the side it is better for him and better from him.

I wouldn't be surprised if Stocker plays on Danger.

 

[stavro#4]

[/QUOTE]

Suggesting Lyon has never done that before was the quote I took issue with. When he has a long history of playing favourites, favouring senior players over performing kids, playing injured players and playing players too early when returning from injury.

Ill say it again its his biggest short coming as a coach and always has been. Its that ordinary he should exclude himself from the selection committee particularly when the side is struggling.

Sorry. I can’t cop this.

Look at all the kids who have played since his return.

You can’t assume that they were all ready for AFL football when selected.

I’m not sure which favourite of his has survived poor form this time round and it’s worth remembering. His last time here he led a club in contention. That’s a very different ball game with selection than the 23-25 interaction of this club.

Again, disagree with the injuries. There have been numerous players who have been held back. You’re apparently seeing it now with King. Ross said he did the same with Henry. Marshall held back from the scratches.

So, not sure what specifics you are using as your basis. Unless of course your still upset that Steven and Armo weren’t played more in 09/10

 

[akaifu]

Stocker is the one selection mistake last week for me. Not that he would have made too much difference, but I couldn't quite understand why he didn't play. I think he would have been a much safer bet than O'Connell, but I understand why the Irishman was rewarded and he can now say he's played an AFL game. I hope if he returns to the side it is better for him and better from him.

I wouldn't be surprised if Stocker plays on Danger.

Because O'Connell's initial position was wing - he only got moved back when Hastie was subbed off

So the only way Stocker was getting into the team was if Hastie got left out, which he has been this week

 

[stavro#4]

Stocker is the one selection mistake last week for me. Not that he would have made too much difference, but I couldn't quite understand why he didn't play. I think he would have been a much safer bet than O'Connell, but I understand why the Irishman was rewarded and he can now say he's played an AFL game. I hope if he returns to the side it is better for him and better from him.

I wouldn't be surprised if Stocker plays on Danger.

Isn’t O’Connell still selected?

 

[The Punter]

Because O'Connell's initial position was wing - he only got moved back when Hastie was subbed off

So the only way Stocker was getting into the team was if Hastie got left out, which he has been this week

I didn't love Hastie's game, and I'm not as annoyed as others he was dropped. If we were more interested in limiting damage last week, Stocker makes a lot more sense than Hastie.

Isn’t O’Connell still selected?

So he is. So I hope that better game is this week.

For me, O'Connell or Jones were the more obvious candidates to be left out rather than Cordy considering how short we are.

 

[The Punter]