Autopsy Round 1, 2022: St.Kilda v Collingwood

[hangdog]

Yep, extremely frustrating.

The only potential positive is that they seemed to work out some of these issues last year, so hopefully we have a blueprint to do it and can respond quickly. To see King and Higgins with the yips again was so frustrating!

King's approach with his set shots looked poor. Very slow, small steps right before getting into his kicking action. Very little momentum going through his kicking action and looked like a lazy swing of the boot. Wonder if he was over thinking it and it's just a one off. Frustrating because he seemed to solve that issue last year.

Higgins was very accurate last year. The Sydney game was the exception. I hope we back him in this week and he has a good game. The way we played and entered 50 didn't help any of our forwards.

 

[AirWinmar]

For me I was probably more frustrated with the way we played rather than the result. Even the Essendon preseason game I was not very enthusiastic about. I think you would struggle to find many more than 1 play in the whole game where you'd go wow, that was an awesome bit of play. Doesnt seem to be much connection and we can't get smooth running overlap going even when we've turned it over and oppo is caught behind.

 

[PoppedCorn]

Higgins spent the whole last quarter starting in the Goalsquare.
King, Membrey and Hayes all in a line 10-15m apart about 35-40m out from goal with Butler and Kent in front of them.

Soooo
God could play CHB


Battle out
God CHB
Ryder in

 

[Munga]

I finally caught the replay of the final quarter. A comedy of errors, really. I've picked out some good and bad, some we already know of.

Pies 1st goal. From centre bounce, De Goey holds off Gresh AND Sinclair to give Adams a free run at the ball, Steele not quick enough to catch him.

Pies 2nd goal. On wing, Hill turns back into trouble and turnsover, Pies back flankers run on but Crouch too slow and Sinclair ball watching a bit not pressuring the ball carrier.

Pies 3rd goal. Centre bounce, Marshall falls over in ruck leaving Grundy free to boot it forward. Battle chooses not to take a simple chest mark, but puts one hand out to stop the ball then completely falls over himself. Pies gather and goal.

We all remember Gresh teeing up King on the lead...



In the Pies defence, we have four extra defenders back, might be a bit excessive. And yet a Pie was still free in a good position. We're just not playing smartly on occasions. After this play all those lads who sprinted back to defend were gassed and left us outnumbered in the middle. Fast forward to the next play and they were still hunched over recovering...



Our 2nd goal. Higgins misses two easy options of our forwards leading, one of them Hayes as if you wouldn't hit him up! Instead he lobs it to an out-number. The Pie should've marked but Membrey's there, and remarkably he beat five Pies to snap a goal...



Pies 4th goal. Byrnes has Hayes leading into acres of space, he kicks into Pie, turnover, Pies always going to score from there...



Pies 5th goal. King drops an easy mark coming out of defence, turnover goal. He drops another easy mark on the way to our final goal.

Hayes then goes in for the centre bounce, tackles Pendles and we get long overdue clearance! The idea that Hayes shouldn't ruck is a bit misguided. If we win clearances because of him what does it matter about the taps? He gets the following clearance too, and gets us out of the next two spots of bother. He's a dual premiership ruck and knows wtf he's doing. Even when one of our guys dives on the ball and gets tackled, Hayes shakes his head and already starts running back to defend before the umpire has even called it. The guy has elite smarts. Add to that he was the cleanest skilled on the night.

Higgins lobs another kick forward, Butler does the smart thing and blocks the Pie for Gresh... but Gresh, all alone for an eternity to judge the flight, completely arses it up and barely gets a fingernail to the ball. So incredibly poor this one...



Doogs. We talk about him needing to mark more. Prime example here. He's disposed of cyclops, Wilkie and Hayes are literally pinning down the other Pie. Doogs has nothing to worry about and a free path to an easy mark. Goes the fist. Not only that, we outnumber the Pies by a few, but the power fist launches the ball past all our players. The fist was useless...



Last one. Butler honours the lead from Hayes, big tick! Butler cops a bit here, but he was easily our cleanest, smartest, and most effective/efficient small forward. Hayes marks but the umpire chokes on his bribe whistle...




Hayes is a machine, forward, back, mid, ruck... he covered it all and who could go with him?

On Kent, it's a shame he didn't get a lot of touches and dropped a pud. His pressure is notable, and he does make some good leads that get ignored. Just a damn shame. I might not melt as hard now if he makes the team this weekend.

Overall what to think.... I find it hard to believe that we'll be worse than that this year. For some reason we had a bit of rust, the Pies were better drilled and ready. They capitalised on all our mistakes, whereas the Pies barely made any and when they did we blew it. Decision making will improve. Gresh's and Higgins' kicking probably won't. King's marking and kicking (and handballing) who TF knows? I'm tipping us against the Dockers. We'll soon know what pattern emerges. Goodbye round one.

 

[gringo2011]

I finally caught the replay of the final quarter. A comedy of errors, really. I've picked out some good and bad, some we already know of.

Pies 1st goal. From centre bounce, De Goey holds off Gresh AND Sinclair to give Adams a free run at the ball, Steele not quick enough to catch him.

Pies 2nd goal. On wing, Hill turns back into trouble and turnsover, Pies back flankers run on but Crouch too slow and Sinclair ball watching a bit not pressuring the ball carrier.

Pies 3rd goal. Centre bounce, Marshall falls over in ruck leaving Grundy free to boot it forward. Battle chooses not to take a simple chest mark, but puts one hand out to stop the ball then completely falls over himself. Pies gather and goal.

We all remember Gresh teeing up King on the lead...

View attachment 1351929

In the Pies defence, we have four extra defenders back, might be a bit excessive. And yet a Pie was still free in a good position. We're just not playing smartly on occasions. After this play all those lads who sprinted back to defend were gassed and left us outnumbered in the middle. Fast forward to the next play and they were still hunched over recovering...

View attachment 1351930

Our 2nd goal. Higgins misses two easy options of our forwards leading, one of them Hayes as if you wouldn't hit him up! Instead he lobs it to an out-number. The Pie should've marked but Membrey's there, and remarkably he beat five Pies to snap a goal...

View attachment 1351931

Pies 4th goal. Byrnes has Hayes leading into acres of space, he kicks into Pie, turnover, Pies always going to score from there...

View attachment 1351932

Pies 5th goal. King drops an easy mark coming out of defence, turnover goal. He drops another easy mark on the way to our final goal.

Hayes then goes in for the centre bounce, tackles Pendles and we get long overdue clearance! The idea that Hayes shouldn't ruck is a bit misguided. If we win clearances because of him what does it matter about the taps? He gets the following clearance too, and gets us out of the next two spots of bother. He's a dual premiership ruck and knows wtf he's doing. Even when one of our guys dives on the ball and gets tackled, Hayes shakes his head and already starts running back to defend before the umpire has even called it. The guy has elite smarts. Add to that he was the cleanest skilled on the night.

Higgins lobs another kick forward, Butler does the smart thing and blocks the Pie for Gresh... but Gresh, all alone for an eternity to judge the flight, completely arses it up and barely gets a fingernail to the ball. So incredibly poor this one...

View attachment 1351933

Doogs. We talk about him needing to mark more. Prime example here. He's disposed of cyclops, Wilkie and Hayes are literally pinning down the other Pie. Doogs has nothing to worry about and a free path to an easy mark. Goes the fist. Not only that, we outnumber the Pies by a few, but the power fist launches the ball past all our players. The fist was useless...

View attachment 1351934

Last one. Butler honours the lead from Hayes, big tick! Butler cops a bit here, but he was easily our cleanest, smartest, and most effective/efficient small forward. Hayes marks but the umpire chokes on his bribe whistle...

View attachment 1351935
View attachment 1351936

Hayes is a machine, forward, back, mid, ruck... he covered it all and who could go with him?

On Kent, it's a shame he didn't get a lot of touches and dropped a pud. His pressure is notable, and he does make some good leads that get ignored. Just a damn shame. I might not melt as hard now if he makes the team this weekend.

Overall what to think.... I find it hard to believe that we'll be worse than that this year. For some reason we had a bit of rust, the Pies were better drilled and ready. They capitalised on all our mistakes, whereas the Pies barely made any and when they did we blew it. Decision making will improve. Gresh's and Higgins' kicking probably won't. King's marking and kicking (and handballing) who TF knows? I'm tipping us against the Dockers. We'll soon know what pattern emerges. Goodbye round one.

Funny enough from memory and not review I thought that we looked noticeably fatigued in the last quarter. Whoever said the new guy has us fitter than we've ever been might have it wrong. They looked physically spent after only playing for 15 minutes of actual football all night. Hopefully Perth isn't warm or we might be too fatigued to finish the match and have to forfeit.


Watching at the ground I though Kent had gone okay apart from his absolute shithouse effort at a chest mark. Probably the most eye catchingly obvious reason that we lost the match. He seemed busy all night but his stat sheet looked like he'd only been on for a few minutes. Higgins the opposite, looked alright on the stats sheet but offered **** all to the naked eye.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Funny enough from memory and not review I thought that we looked noticeably fatigued in the last quarter. Whoever said the new guy has us fitter than we've ever been might have it wrong. They looked physically spent after only playing for 15 minutes of actual football all night. Hopefully Perth isn't warm or we might be too fatigued to finish the match and have to forfeit.


Watching at the ground I though Kent had gone okay apart from his absolute shithouse effort at a chest mark. Probably the most eye catchingly obvious reason that we lost the match. He seemed busy all night but his stat sheet looked like he'd only been on for a few minutes. Higgins the opposite, looked alright on the stats sheet but offered fu** all to the naked eye.

Or because we were doing too much useless running.

In the coverage at halftime they mentioned, we had run 11km more than Collingwood.

 

[puppy_dog7]

I finally caught the replay of the final quarter. A comedy of errors, really. I've picked out some good and bad, some we already know of.

Pies 1st goal. From centre bounce, De Goey holds off Gresh AND Sinclair to give Adams a free run at the ball, Steele not quick enough to catch him.

Pies 2nd goal. On wing, Hill turns back into trouble and turnsover, Pies back flankers run on but Crouch too slow and Sinclair ball watching a bit not pressuring the ball carrier.

Pies 3rd goal. Centre bounce, Marshall falls over in ruck leaving Grundy free to boot it forward. Battle chooses not to take a simple chest mark, but puts one hand out to stop the ball then completely falls over himself. Pies gather and goal.

We all remember Gresh teeing up King on the lead...

View attachment 1351929

In the Pies defence, we have four extra defenders back, might be a bit excessive. And yet a Pie was still free in a good position. We're just not playing smartly on occasions. After this play all those lads who sprinted back to defend were gassed and left us outnumbered in the middle. Fast forward to the next play and they were still hunched over recovering...

View attachment 1351930

Our 2nd goal. Higgins misses two easy options of our forwards leading, one of them Hayes as if you wouldn't hit him up! Instead he lobs it to an out-number. The Pie should've marked but Membrey's there, and remarkably he beat five Pies to snap a goal...

View attachment 1351931

Pies 4th goal. Byrnes has Hayes leading into acres of space, he kicks into Pie, turnover, Pies always going to score from there...

View attachment 1351932

Pies 5th goal. King drops an easy mark coming out of defence, turnover goal. He drops another easy mark on the way to our final goal.

Hayes then goes in for the centre bounce, tackles Pendles and we get long overdue clearance! The idea that Hayes shouldn't ruck is a bit misguided. If we win clearances because of him what does it matter about the taps? He gets the following clearance too, and gets us out of the next two spots of bother. He's a dual premiership ruck and knows wtf he's doing. Even when one of our guys dives on the ball and gets tackled, Hayes shakes his head and already starts running back to defend before the umpire has even called it. The guy has elite smarts. Add to that he was the cleanest skilled on the night.

Higgins lobs another kick forward, Butler does the smart thing and blocks the Pie for Gresh... but Gresh, all alone for an eternity to judge the flight, completely arses it up and barely gets a fingernail to the ball. So incredibly poor this one...

View attachment 1351933

Doogs. We talk about him needing to mark more. Prime example here. He's disposed of cyclops, Wilkie and Hayes are literally pinning down the other Pie. Doogs has nothing to worry about and a free path to an easy mark. Goes the fist. Not only that, we outnumber the Pies by a few, but the power fist launches the ball past all our players. The fist was useless...

View attachment 1351934

Last one. Butler honours the lead from Hayes, big tick! Butler cops a bit here, but he was easily our cleanest, smartest, and most effective/efficient small forward. Hayes marks but the umpire chokes on his bribe whistle...

View attachment 1351935
View attachment 1351936

Hayes is a machine, forward, back, mid, ruck... he covered it all and who could go with him?

On Kent, it's a shame he didn't get a lot of touches and dropped a pud. His pressure is notable, and he does make some good leads that get ignored. Just a damn shame. I might not melt as hard now if he makes the team this weekend.

Overall what to think.... I find it hard to believe that we'll be worse than that this year. For some reason we had a bit of rust, the Pies were better drilled and ready. They capitalised on all our mistakes, whereas the Pies barely made any and when they did we blew it. Decision making will improve. Gresh's and Higgins' kicking probably won't. King's marking and kicking (and handballing) who TF knows? I'm tipping us against the Dockers. We'll soon know what pattern emerges. Goodbye round one.

Our Forward setup and bomb it long attitude was poor and is on the coaching staff, but you're right we did not seem switched on at all. Poor decision making, poor skill execution and fumbles and a clear lack of talk and direction from our players yet again particularly in the backline.

Lets hope this is just round 1 issues that'll be corrected with more match fitness

Also shithouse from Doogs, if you're going to fist it late in the game when we have the outnumber in the air, then don't fist it 20m back into the corridor and dangerous position. Just dumb

 

[The Punter]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: a tackle where the ball comes loose is a failed tackle.

Stop. The. Ball.

 

[gringo2011]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: a tackle where the ball comes loose is a failed tackle.

Stop. The. Ball.

We don't train to exploit the rules like other clubs either. Most other sides put the ball down or let it spill free when they get tackled so get the tackler gets done for holding the man. The dogs barely touch the ball in handballs and flop if they get any contact. Sides that exploit the rules get a massive advantage. We seem to get done by every new rule like we weren't expecting them.

 

[The Punter]

We don't train to exploit the rules like other clubs either. Most other sides put the ball down or let it spill free when they get tackled so get the tackler gets done for holding the man. The dogs barely touch the ball in handballs and flop if they get any contact. Sides that exploit the rules get a massive advantage. We seem to get done by every new rule like we weren't expecting them.

This has been consistent across regimes and coaching staffs.

It's not olympic diving - you don't get a higher score by adding a degree of difficulty. If ducking works, then duck. If dropping the ball works, then drop it like it's radioactive waste.

 

[austinnn]

Billings just hit his ceiling, he's always put in patches of excellent form. He was injured last year and went a long way backwards. At the end of the day Billings is a good ordinary player. Perhaps if we'd won more he would have been a more consistent player or maybe he would have been pushed aside like a James Aish.

Bulldogs and Melbourne have "developed" players from a similar position and both have burnt picks. What do people think "development" is? It's training skills, giving game time and instruction and VFL time. Most clubs do the same programs pretty much. To me Billings needed a sports psych, he seems to overthink his game and if things go well he tends to have a great game but if he makes a mistake he unravels.

To me he has a neurotic vibe with a perfectionistic streak.

Good question here, and since I've been banging on about development so long, it's only fair for me to put some thought into it.

It starts with having a strong system, cohesive from the VFL programme to senior team and a mature attitude towards time in the VFL.

Players coming in need time in the VFL to learn to play Saints Footy instinctively, or that's how it should work anyway, be it Brad Hill or Jack Peris. No one gets into the seniors until they show consistent application of the system at Sandy. We've neglected Sandringham for so long for a number of reasons, but we cannot afford to compromise with it anymore. We get a proper reserves team, whether it's the Zebs or a stand-alone. We don't run it to win, we run it to develop our players, and winning should be one of a few different indicators.

Each player gets the spot which suits their qualities. It doesn't change depending on what the club needs because the club list management ensures that we are amply stocked in all positions. Of course in an injury crisis there will be exceptions, even the oft-referenced Liverpool had this problem last season - and it didn't work out well for them either because they hadn't prioritised flexibility in position. Neither should we. It's far more important to get all of our players fine tuned into taking one position really well. This is the opposite approach to Richo and Ratten's philosophy.

We trade in for the system, draft too if possible. Best available drafting creates a misshapen squad which means we can't use it properly, leaving us stretched in some areas, desperately bringing in unsuitable players to cover gaps, and excess in other areas meaning too much competition for spots, some players never play decreasing conditioning and motivation.

Fitness is the key nowadays, and it was the dumbest move possible last year to delegate that facet to the playing group. Yes, in theory in teaches players awareness and responsibility but the results spoke for themselves. We have professionals to run a programme, let them do that and let the players concentrate on extra fitness or conditioning. So glad we are back on track there.

Strong leadership means new players get guided until they are fully integrated. The hands off, let you work it out approach is neglectful. No player should feel alone, but do it right - no bullshit platitudes like "if one of youse feels rough, reach out don't suffer alone blah blah" don't be passive, keep your eye out and know when your teammate is not in tune.

Communication is paramount, and this isn't about players becoming best mates and knowing which side their teammates dress, it's about knowing their role in the system, what to do if a part of it breaks down, how to get 10% more out of every individual teammate who each respond to different triggers, game management, how to work together to integrate new players who are there to get experience, like Owens in rd 1.

Selection integrity should be respected by the coaches and rotation should be respected by the players. We have a squad, let's use it. What's the point in creating a squad of 25 players who play every week and 10 players who almost never play, then have to come in in an emergency and are underdone? It creates this stigma about not playing that leads to unrest. Yes players should be desperate to play, but recognise that not playing means someone else in the squad does play, which benefits the team. At the same time, coaches must be clear about the selection and no player is immune from non-negotiables. Developing players get a bloc of games (one area that Ratten has been good with).

None of this is possible without building a squad capable of covering every position comfortably - which isn't possible without some flexibility, in obvious contrast to my earlier point. It's crucial we find a balance between flexibility and consistency.

Right now, we have a system that is being taught to all the players with uninspiring results, suggesting the system is flawed or the players aren't playing it correctly. Do they use it at Sandy? Do the list management team consider the system when trading in star players like Hill, Higgins and Crouch, or did they just find the biggest guns who actually wanted to come?

TLR
System
Respect for seconds comp
Intelligent list tuning
Fitness
List tuning
Consistency
Communication

 

[StCicatriz]

if you haven't seen it. watch AFL360 monday night. 19 mins in.

they have close up footage of the guys walking off the ground. i know its just footage, but watch the body language of the guys going off the field after a game they were expected to win.

steele looks absolutely shattered. looks like he hasn't slept in a month! i'm starting to wonder if this season might be too much for him to carry the entire team on his shoulders. reminds me a bit of cripps when he was absolutely broken physically. kennedy coming on as another big body mid has really helped release the pressure on him and finally bring injury free he seems to be playing with more vigor and greater confidence.

we really need guys like Crouch and Ross to really step up to help the guy out. he can't do it all!!!

btw look at the faces around steele. mixture of guys who look:

• shattered with the loss
• deer in headlights (wtf just happened)
• arrogance
• i couldn't give a ****, it's all a laugh
• i'm glad i just got a game (owens)
• those who look determined to right it (wilkie)

TBH i could see Wilkie captaining this club.

 

[Bill Mohr]

We don't train to exploit the rules like other clubs either. Most other sides put the ball down or let it spill free when they get tackled so get the tackler gets done for holding the man. The dogs barely touch the ball in handballs and flop if they get any contact. Sides that exploit the rules get a massive advantage. We seem to get done by every new rule like we weren't expecting them.

I said this last year, the coaching staff have no idea how to get on the front foot with anything remotely concerning football rules, changes to those rules, positioning , 6x 6 x6 and any forward thinking. cannot think of 1 item that they have remotely looked like getting ahead of any other club. The best is recruiting players from SA, which they have done well but nothing to relate to the actual game play itself

 

[Munga]

get Hill out of the backline and on a wing where he can use his two way running. He can snag a goal.

Too easy. I wasn't expecting 4 goals though haha, what a legend. Even starting centre bounces as a forward flanker, he pushes into the centre with his speed, it opens the forward line up, and he's where we need him for his delivery. It's a win-win-win.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Too easy. I wasn't expecting 4 goals though haha, what a legend. Even starting centre bounces as a forward flanker, he pushes into the centre with his speed, it opens the forward line up, and he's where we need him for his delivery. It's a win-win-win.

Score involvements, goal assists, marks around the ground and straight up goals. What a clinic by hill