My most damning stat from the weekend:
We certainly ran hard enough going one way.......
We certainly ran hard enough going one way.......
-
AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Review Ugly and Uglier vs GWS
- Thread starter JP Sauce
- Start date
- Tagged users None
This is why we need to develop Rachele into a guy who spends 50/50 time between midfield and forward. We need class in both areas of the ground, but in the middle we desperately need players who, when they get the handball from a Laird/Berry type, can not only create separation, but can also either create slick ball movement to generate an I50 or simply lower the eyes when kicking to a teammate
Rachele can be that guy. Schoenberg still can be as well, hopefully his start of the year was just a blip. Was a lot better in limited game time on Saturday
Drugs Are Bad Mackay?
Moderator
- May 24, 2006
- 79,809
- 162,026
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Redbacks, Sturt, Liverpool, Arizona
- Moderator
- #478
We got spooked early against GWS. They took the initiative early and we regressed instantly.
Our contested marking was poor. What was worse was that we relied so heavily on it by not hitting up short options, not running with the ball, not moving the ball with quick handball chains, not doing any quick switches or changing angles.
It was our old wooden spoon winning quick bomb up the line play. Anyone who took possession of the ball felt under pressure and rushed their disposal.
Went back to square one. Hopefully a brief relapse that will be instantly amended.
Our contested marking was poor. What was worse was that we relied so heavily on it by not hitting up short options, not running with the ball, not moving the ball with quick handball chains, not doing any quick switches or changing angles.
It was our old wooden spoon winning quick bomb up the line play. Anyone who took possession of the ball felt under pressure and rushed their disposal.
Went back to square one. Hopefully a brief relapse that will be instantly amended.
Very much got spooked. And then when they got a spray and lifted their workrate, they lost system and structure, it was bees to a honeypot and all individual effort
- Oct 13, 2017
- 20,754
- 34,879
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Liverpool, Glenelg, tigers
Nice of you to think you are the authority to speak for EVERYBODY..
But if you and EVERYBODY picked your first team and when it came to picking your midfield keays was in it before;
Bont
Cripps
J Kelly
Oliver
Petracca
Tom Greene
Martin -whos due back next week.
Steele
Neale
Dangerfield
Walsh
Miller
Bolton
De goey
And atlest a couple of others..
Then you and EVERYBODY else are clearly ****n delusional..
You simply cannot say that you’d pick Ben Keays before any of those guys I’ve just named and think that you should be taken seriously.
I'd have him in front of DeGoey every day of the week. It's also laughable that you have Touk Miller in your list, given that your main gripe about Keays is disposal efficiency, turnovers and decision making. Miller has a lower DE, higher Clanger avg, higher turnover rate and less effective disposals. In fact, the only meaningful stat that Touk has the edge on Ben is stoppage clearances (Ben beats him at centre clearances).
Statistically, as well as to the naked eye, they are very similar players, yet you have Touk in your top picks and Ben a B grade mid.
- Moderator
- #482
That is why I felt sick
Clear as 1 July Cracker night in NT
People go looking for their spooked dogs
More how much better a player can look when played in the correct position. They've done the same with Heeney for years with playing him as a forward because he can kick goals where he'd be a far bigger name in the league if they just left him in the midfield where he'd kick close to as many goals and give the team far more - Actually think Longmire is very slow to make these changes personally.
We see our young up and comers struggle to play positions they've never really played at junior level. For top level teams, fair enough as there are clearly better mids but for a side in the position ours has been in, the rotations of who gets midfield minutes should be far more varied than we've witnessed in recent seasons.
The problem with Crouch no matter where he plays is he wants to take every option in before disposing of it. It's why he constantly gets caught HTB in open play and why he kills ball movement when he marks it. Having him work through HF would basically relegate his I50 entries to long bombs since he'll allow the opposition so much time to get back.
Basically the only role he's capable of is playing an in and under midfielder who works it out by hand.
Gtowncrow
Premiership Player
- Jul 6, 2021
- 3,215
- 4,114
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
Not picking a fight here but I thought Rachele was at the first CBA to start the third quarter.
I'm totally agreeing that the centre needs increased turnover of players throughout each game.
Rotating the midfield shouldn't be that hard.
Laird can rotate with Jones and if we had Worell in the side Doedee can swing into the middle
Keays can rotate through HF along with Crouch. Rachelle can come up on ball along with Murphy.
Then we have the guys in addition such as Berry, Hately (needs to show more), Pedlar (when fit)
Laird can rotate with Jones and if we had Worell in the side Doedee can swing into the middle
Keays can rotate through HF along with Crouch. Rachelle can come up on ball along with Murphy.
Then we have the guys in addition such as Berry, Hately (needs to show more), Pedlar (when fit)
Kane McGoodwin
Make me an Admin!
- May 21, 2001
- 86,011
- 91,368
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Adelaide Crows
It makes sense in a rebuild to be trying different rotations through the middle... rather than sticking to the same 4 & learning little/limiting development.
WaynesWorld19
Moderator
- Moderator
- #488
Cornes highlighted where he believes it went wrong for the Crows against the Giants.
“They had a terrific fortnight, their best fortnight under coach Matthew Nicks with wins over Richmond and the Western Bulldogs,” he said on SEN SA Breakfast.
“They came crashing back to earth with a 59-point loss to the Giants who were red hot.
“We’ve chatted a bit about the difficulty of the way Adelaide play. It’s really admirable and I’ve been thrilled with their contest work that Matthew Nicks alluded to and their work around stoppage.
“At times their defence has gelled together on the back of really good pressure up the field. When that breaks down and when you’ve got a young side as the year goes longer, it’s such a tough way to win. You don’t get any easy wins because Adelaide’s biggest weakness is their ball use.
“We saw that on the weekend. That last kick inside 50 was diabolical really. That’s backed up by the stats and any stats you look at, Adelaide’s ability to move the ball and actually be efficient with their ball just going forward is really difficult.
“When that contest stuff breaks down and you’re turning the footy over, you’re forcing your defenders to defend all day.”
www.sen.com.au
Midfield pressure ....midfield class, remains the issue
“They had a terrific fortnight, their best fortnight under coach Matthew Nicks with wins over Richmond and the Western Bulldogs,” he said on SEN SA Breakfast.
“They came crashing back to earth with a 59-point loss to the Giants who were red hot.
“We’ve chatted a bit about the difficulty of the way Adelaide play. It’s really admirable and I’ve been thrilled with their contest work that Matthew Nicks alluded to and their work around stoppage.
“At times their defence has gelled together on the back of really good pressure up the field. When that breaks down and when you’ve got a young side as the year goes longer, it’s such a tough way to win. You don’t get any easy wins because Adelaide’s biggest weakness is their ball use.
“We saw that on the weekend. That last kick inside 50 was diabolical really. That’s backed up by the stats and any stats you look at, Adelaide’s ability to move the ball and actually be efficient with their ball just going forward is really difficult.
“When that contest stuff breaks down and you’re turning the footy over, you’re forcing your defenders to defend all day.”
The challenge ahead of the Crows in wake of “absolute smashing”
The situation is not too dissimilar to last year.
www.sen.com.au
Midfield pressure ....midfield class, remains the issue
WaynesWorld19
Moderator
- Moderator
- #489
SCOTT BURNS on Sportsday SA (03.05.22)
Adelaide assistant, Scott Burns joined Malcolm Blight & David Wildy for an in-depth interview.
player.whooshkaa.com
Dawson needs to play wing. He is our best balluser, Nick's wake up. Strachan into ruck will likely also help us. Hinge is also a good kick so why was he dropped? Parnell is another good ball user we could bring in. Nick's needs to focus more on ball users instead of this pressure game which won't stack up long term. All teams do is pressure us and we crumble.Cornes highlighted where he believes it went wrong for the Crows against the Giants.
“They had a terrific fortnight, their best fortnight under coach Matthew Nicks with wins over Richmond and the Western Bulldogs,” he said on SEN SA Breakfast.
“They came crashing back to earth with a 59-point loss to the Giants who were red hot.
“We’ve chatted a bit about the difficulty of the way Adelaide play. It’s really admirable and I’ve been thrilled with their contest work that Matthew Nicks alluded to and their work around stoppage.
“At times their defence has gelled together on the back of really good pressure up the field. When that breaks down and when you’ve got a young side as the year goes longer, it’s such a tough way to win. You don’t get any easy wins because Adelaide’s biggest weakness is their ball use.
“We saw that on the weekend. That last kick inside 50 was diabolical really. That’s backed up by the stats and any stats you look at, Adelaide’s ability to move the ball and actually be efficient with their ball just going forward is really difficult.
“When that contest stuff breaks down and you’re turning the footy over, you’re forcing your defenders to defend all day.”
The challenge ahead of the Crows in wake of “absolute smashing”
The situation is not too dissimilar to last year.
Midfield pressure ....midfield class, remains the issue
- Feb 8, 2013
- 3,400
- 4,558
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
What do you do when you come up against a team physically bigger and stronger?
You run them off their feet
What did we do? Jog around like geriatrics
Pretty clear that ball use, contest and spread are the keys and so far we have nailed 1 out of 3. Contested stuff is great but the ball use is a major problem.
We have some fantastic ball users in the SANFL side that aren't in the AFL.
Parnell - very slight but by all accounts could be a replacement for Scholl, has speed and would be beat on a wing at this stage.
Hinge - anywhere from HB to Wing to HF would be ideal. Would free up Dawson to move into the centre and potentially free up Dodee as well
Davis - is a great ball user and has speed but can be sloppy with decisions
FOG - would provide greater ball movement at CHF if he could get his hands on it.
The rest are not what you call elite ball users.
Critical is the three amigos in the centre. Crouch and Laird are both loopy kick boys and handballers whilst Keays is average. When they make up 25% of the possessions it's not effective.
Nicks need to work out how to reduce the load on these guys and increase the number of possessions with the others. Need to have Dawson, Hinge, Jones, FOG type players in the middle and getting over 20 posessions
We have some fantastic ball users in the SANFL side that aren't in the AFL.
Parnell - very slight but by all accounts could be a replacement for Scholl, has speed and would be beat on a wing at this stage.
Hinge - anywhere from HB to Wing to HF would be ideal. Would free up Dawson to move into the centre and potentially free up Dodee as well
Davis - is a great ball user and has speed but can be sloppy with decisions
FOG - would provide greater ball movement at CHF if he could get his hands on it.
The rest are not what you call elite ball users.
Critical is the three amigos in the centre. Crouch and Laird are both loopy kick boys and handballers whilst Keays is average. When they make up 25% of the possessions it's not effective.
Nicks need to work out how to reduce the load on these guys and increase the number of possessions with the others. Need to have Dawson, Hinge, Jones, FOG type players in the middle and getting over 20 posessions
We ran well in one direction. Odd given how much time we spent chasing...
I think coaches really struggle with this.
On one hand, if you include guys like Parnell, Davis & Frampton you have weaker one on one defenders. These can be exposed and it looks awful.
On the other hand if you include players like Murray (or in the past - Hartigan, J Kelly etc...) you have more turnovers.
It's a bit of a balancing act trying to have defenders who can stop a scoring opportunity, while also creating one for yourself. Coaches generally defer on the side of better one on one defenders, but is it the best way? Less turnovers means less one on one defending and less chance of being exposed.
The WB play Caleb Daniels for this exact reason. He should be getting exposed as a small defender, but his kicking skills are so good, his weapon outweighs his deficiencies as a defender (he's not terrible at that btw). The WB get exposed against the best teams though because their key defenders are pretty weak.
I think we need a balance.
Our defence looks as follows:
KICKING
Smith - penetrating kick, but can be turnover prone (esp this year)
Frampton - excellent kick
Doedee - generally sound kick
Dawson - ELITE kick - the entire reason he is in defence. I'd prefer him on the wing though.
Brown - ordinary kick
Jones - ordinary kick
Butts - poor kick
1 elite, 2 good, 1 ok, 2 below average, 1 poor
DEFENDING
Smith - reasonable one on one defender.
Frampton - terrible one on one defender
Doedee - excellent defender (best when intercepting)
Dawson - good defender
Brown - generally a good lock down defender, but struggles against a specific type (J Elliot, T Greene etc...)
Jones - improving in this area. Looking pretty good in this role.
Butts - Excellent defender
2 excellent, 3 good, 1 ok, 1 terrible
I'd suggest that the balance could include 1 better kick. For me that would make Brown the expendable one.
Jones can take most of the small forward types. Against the guys like Elliott would be Doedee.
I'd take Brown out and add Parnell.
I'd want to do a similar analysis for all midfield rotations.
- Aug 9, 2019
- 36,912
- 64,352
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Panthers, GWV Rebels, Central Augusta
Butts a poor kick?
No way Jose.
As far as KPD's go he's excellent, he might not take on kicks with a great deal of difficulty but no way in hell is he a poor kick.
Edit:
Just checked with AFL/Champion Data kicking efficiency rated elite at 92%
Last edited:
- Aug 21, 2008
- 6,649
- 13,540
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
It's almost like they've forgotten Hartigan and Kelly.
- Aug 9, 2019
- 36,912
- 64,352
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Panthers, GWV Rebels, Central Augusta
Yeah I just checked his kicking efficiency just to make sure my eyes weren't playing tricks, rated elite by champion data going at 92% KE
Yeh that's fair.
I guess I think of him as a limited kick - as in he takes the easy and safe option. I'm not sure I trust him to make those incisive kicks in towards the middle of the ground (I'm burnt by guys like Hartigan).
Still I'd much rather a guy like Butts who knows his limitations and makes the kicks he's capable of.
So yeh, I was wrong. He's better than I suggested.
*Edit: We could probably say the same for Brown.
- Aug 9, 2019
- 36,912
- 64,352
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Panthers, GWV Rebels, Central Augusta
Much much better...
- Jun 21, 2014
- 9,333
- 10,428
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
And Talia.
