Review R16: The Good, Bad and Ugly vs. GWS Giants

[GreyCrow]

Nowhere. I'm asking what 'the message' is. The post I was responding to took it for granted that it was obvious, and 'play the kids results be damned' is a popular view on here.

So you made it up

But if that was the message being conveyed by fans not turning up, presumably we'd have seen it earlier in the year rather than only when finals was gone.

Well it was only the last 2 weeks that coincided with the bye that even the club conceded finals were no longer an option - so not sure what metric you are using

The bye review was meant to send a message to the patient fans that something was happening. But what eventuated was more wagon circling

And we saw a reaction to that on Saturday. 3-4k you maybe can blame on weather but not 10k

That the club nor ground staff released crowd numbers - as they have every game I have attended at 3/4 time - says damage control is happening

But kudos to sticking to the party line '' it was the weather'' or '' its not the club''

 

[GreyCrow]

Commentators for our game were Anthony Hudson, Dermott Brereton, Mark Ricciuto, and ??? (I can't remember).

I suspect you're thinking of Hudson.

I thought it was Healy - and it must have been because I rarely watch other games and didnt this weekend

 

[Vader]

I thought it was Healy - and it must have been because I rarely watch other games and didnt this weekend

You're right... Healy was the ??? commentator.

 

[Bovo]

The Happy Clappers verses The Lynch Mob.

Define Happy Clapper. I’m trying to determine my position please.

 

[NSolis]

So you made it up


Well it was only the last 2 weeks that coincided with the bye that even the club conceded finals were no longer an option - so not sure what metric you are using

The bye review was meant to send a message to the patient fans that something was happening. But what eventuated was more wagon circling

And we saw a reaction to that on Saturday. 3-4k you maybe can blame on weather but not 10k

That the club nor ground staff released crowd numbers - as they have every game I have attended at 3/4 time - says damage control is happening

But kudos to sticking to the party line '' it was the weather'' or '' its not the club''

Not sure what you're responding to really. What I'm saying is that attendance dropping off is because we can't make finals. That's it - it happens to most clubs most years when finals isn't on the table. Trying to pin it to some elaborate message to the board or something is just wishful thinking.

Attendance is driven by on field results, leaving aside variables like weather, timeslot and opposition which obviously impact at the margins. The 'message' the club will take from low attendance is 'we need to win more games'. That's a good message, but it's not specifically about Nicks or anything else.

 

[CrowBloke]

I thought it was Healy - and it must have been because I rarely watch other games and didnt this weekend

Yeah, now that you've said his name, Healy then Brereton.

 

[tinman]

Not sure what you're responding to really. What I'm saying is that attendance dropping off is because we can't make finals. That's it - it happens to most clubs most years when finals isn't on the table. Trying to pin it to some elaborate message to the board or something is just wishful thinking.

Attendance is driven by on field results, leaving aside variables like weather, timeslot and opposition which obviously impact at the margins. The 'message' the club will take from low attendance is 'we need to win more games'. That's a good message, but it's not specifically about Nicks or anything else.

Agree that when hope is lost, people won’t front up.

WCE had 49,454 punters show up to watch their hopeless team cop a 10 goal flogging from Hawthorn. And kick 4 goals in 4 quarters. Their finals hopes were arguably over before a ball was bounced in 2024, yet they come out and support the team. And based on history, they’ll come good.

If supporters can see green shoots and hope for the future they’ll front up. At the moment we’re in the position of having our great hopes for the season disappearing into the ether. Members and supporters are frustrated at the lack of progress and underperformance.

I’m not disagreeing with your post, just pointing out that WCE still draw a crowd in a very ordinary time slot (granted Perth winter weather is superior).

 

[kirky]

Agree that when hope is lost, people won’t front up.

WCE had 49,454 punters show up to watch their hopeless team cop a 10 goal flogging from Hawthorn. And kick 4 goals in 4 quarters. Their finals hopes were arguably over before a ball was bounced in 2024, yet they come out and support the team. And based on history, they’ll come good.

If supporters can see green shoots and hope for the future they’ll front up. At the moment we’re in the position of having our great hopes for the season disappearing into the ether. Members and supporters are frustrated at the lack of progress and underperformance.

I’m not disagreeing with your post, just pointing out that WCE still draw a crowd in a very ordinary time slot (granted Perth winter weather is superior).

Interesting to know how 2.40pm is an ordinary time slot on a Sunday afternoon.

Will be interesting to see how many turn up against Brisbane in two weeks (same time slot).

 

[Coopers]

Awareness/composure: Murphy don't got it.

In this freeze-frame, he's just crumbed the ball off a pack (good) but fails to see that all he has to do is lob the ball over to Tex (handball or chip-kick) for a run-in goal.
Instead, Murphy blazes away (badly) across to a guarded Crow but the poor kick is chest-marked by GWS.
View attachment 2035945

This was the one that drove me mental.

Senior player. He's got lots of options. He had Tex as a clear option for handball or kick, and possibly a longer centering kick to whoever it was trailing the GWS defender in off the RHS of the screen. Or go for goal. Something.

Instead you dob a high 30m kick to the only place the ONLY remaining GWS defender can uncontested mark it.

Like it would be hard to make a worse decision than that.

 

[BACCS]

This was the one that drove me mental.

Senior player. He's got lots of options. He had Tex as a clear option for handball or kick, and possibly a longer centering kick to whoever it was trailing the GWS defender in off the RHS of the screen. Or go for goal. Something.

Instead you dob a high 30m kick to the only place the ONLY remaining GWS defender can uncontested mark it.

Like it would be hard to make a worse decision than that.

He actually did some positive things on the weekend (awesome crumb to setup Fog’s goal from the goal square as one example), but that kick just highlighted every issue with him. Doubt he gets dropped though, was actually one of his better games for the season and he’s stayed in for far worse games.

 

[CrowBloke]

This was the one that drove me mental.

Senior player. He's got lots of options. He had Tex as a clear option for handball or kick, and possibly a longer centering kick to whoever it was trailing the GWS defender in off the RHS of the screen. Or go for goal. Something.

Instead you dob a high 30m kick to the only place the ONLY remaining GWS defender can uncontested mark it.

Like it would be hard to make a worse decision than that.

Yep. Infuriating.
Murphy, who puts the dud in spud, inexplicably made a less-than-5-gamer error.
100 games have taught him little but, gee, he tries! so!! hard!!!

 

[Nicks_out_now]

Rachele had a good game. 6 scoring shots with 18 touches for the gane. Enjoy his development for a 3rd year player.

 

[jackster83]

Yep. Infuriating.
Murphy, who puts the dud in spud, inexplicably made a less-than-5-gamer error.
100 games have taught him little but, gee, he tries! so!! hard!!!

You can lock him in for 200+ games.

Will probably captain the side one day given how much we seem to rate him.

 

[NSolis]

Agree that when hope is lost, people won’t front up.

WCE had 49,454 punters show up to watch their hopeless team cop a 10 goal flogging from Hawthorn. And kick 4 goals in 4 quarters. Their finals hopes were arguably over before a ball was bounced in 2024, yet they come out and support the team. And based on history, they’ll come good.

If supporters can see green shoots and hope for the future they’ll front up. At the moment we’re in the position of having our great hopes for the season disappearing into the ether. Members and supporters are frustrated at the lack of progress and underperformance.

I’m not disagreeing with your post, just pointing out that WCE still draw a crowd in a very ordinary time slot (granted Perth winter weather is superior).

This is true and you're right that West Coast is a good example. It's also about performance relative to expectations. West Coast have resilient fans but still lost quite a lot in terms of attendance numbers in the depths of last year, who have come back in response to somewhat improved performances and just an overall much more competitive side.

 

[CrowBloke]

Coaches votes:

Adelaide v Greater Western Sydney​

10 Izak Rankine

23

Izak Rankine

Age

24

Ht

181cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

2.0

5star

D

13.0

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

2.0

5star

D

13.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.7

5star

G

2.0

5star

(ADEL)
8 Mitchell Hinge

20

Mitchell Hinge

Age

26

Ht

190cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.0

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

14.0

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.5

4star

(ADEL)
3 Jordan Dawson

12

Jordan Dawson

Age

27

Ht

191cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

5.7

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.8

4star

CL

0.6

3star

D

15.7

4star

K

10.9

4star

HB

4.9

3star

M

2.9

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

D

11.8

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.6

3star

(ADEL)
3 Darcy Fogarty

32

Darcy Fogarty

Age

25

Ht

194cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.5

2star

K

5.7

2star

HB

2.8

2star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.7

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

2.3

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.3

3star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.4

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

1.0

4star

(ADEL)
2 Harry Himmelberg (GWS)
2 Ben Keays

2

Ben Keays

Age

27

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.1

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.9

5star

G

0.4

3star

D

13.7

3star

K

8.7

3star

HB

5.0

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.7

4star

G

0.3

3star

D

13.0

4star

K

4.8

2star

HB

8.2

5star

M

1.4

2star

T

4.4

5star

G

0.4

3star

(ADEL)
1 Joshua Rachele (ADEL)
1 Tom Green

12

Tom Green

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

3star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

5star

(GWS)

Previously, I had posted "Rankine, Hinge, Fogarty, Dawson, Berry, Walker." and missed Rachele and Keays.
Keays was much busier than I picked; 21 disposals, with 8 tackles, decent game.
Rachele for his 2 goals, looks like.

 

[OccamsRazorRay]

Coaches votes:

Adelaide v Greater Western Sydney​

10 Izak Rankine (ADEL)
8 Mitchell Hinge (ADEL)
3 Jordan Dawson (ADEL)
3 Darcy Fogarty (ADEL)
2 Harry Himmelberg (GWS)
2 Ben Keays (ADEL)
1 Joshua Rachele (ADEL)
1 Tom Green (GWS)

Previously, I had posted "Rankine, Hinge, Fogarty, Dawson, Berry, Walker." and missed Rachele and Keays.
Keays was much busier than I picked; 21 disposals, with 8 tackles, decent game.
Rachele for his 2 goals, looks like.

Rachele and Fogarty could have had a few more each too

 

[CrowBloke]

Rachele and Fogarty could have had a few more each too

Yeah, Fogarty had 2 posters. Odd there were no votes for Whitfield who seemed to be everywhere and had 41 touches.

 

[tinman]

Interesting to know how 2.40pm is an ordinary time slot on a Sunday afternoon.

Will be interesting to see how many turn up against Brisbane in two weeks (same time slot).

I didn’t do any analysis around this, I think it’s a good ratings time slot but not a big crowd attendance puller. Highly likely I’m wrong on both counts.

It’s certainly no better than Saturday evening. The point is that the terrible Eagles still manage to pull a crowd.

 

[1970crow]

Maybe the right path to success doesn't require us to be a massive failure this year?

Cheering for a massive failure of a year is wanting us to tear it down and start another six to ten years of rebuild.

GWS are a very talented side, and our best beat them. Sydney are the best in the comp, and our best was more than competitive with them. Same with Collingwood.

Maybe we should be looking to improve and see winning as what we want to do, instead of looking to nuke it all?

What would nuking it all look like compared to not? What list of trades/delistings will be made during the nuke that won’t be if we end up winning a couple of extra games? Our own club said progression isn’t linear, so why would we have to nuke it and begin another 6-10 year rebuild?

 

[kirky]

I didn’t do any analysis around this, I think it’s a good ratings time slot but not a big crowd attendance puller. Highly likely I’m wrong on both counts.

It’s certainly no better than Saturday evening. The point is that the terrible Eagles still manage to pull a crowd.

The thing with a 2.40pm slot it gives you enough time to do things on a Sunday morning and it finishes in enough time to get kids to bed.

 

[1970crow]

So Cook with 7 disposals rated better than Murphy with 16, colour me shocked.

Gotta love that kid’s hustle though.

 

[ABAB]

Awareness/composure: Murphy don't got it.

In this freeze-frame, he's just crumbed the ball off a pack (good) but fails to see that all he has to do is lob the ball over to Tex (handball or chip-kick) for a run-in goal.
Instead, Murphy blazes away (badly) across to a guarded Crow but the poor kick is chest-marked by GWS.
View attachment 2035945

Shortly after, Rachele gets the ball in space and under no pressure kicks for goal from 40m and misses badly, when all he had to do was chip-kick over the GWS defender, again to Walker who gets dudded twice in 2 minutes.
View attachment 2035950

Both Murphy (100+ games now? ) and Rachele (nearly 50 games) should have known and done better.
Frustrating for Tex! Might've had 4 for the quarter.

P.S. edit: I've been very critical of ROB, justifiably, but he was a force in that second quarter --- intelligent tapwork especially to Rachele, some good marks and two good kicks I50 for goals to Tex and later Fogarty.
Credit where due.

It was a difficult shot for Murphy on that angle for a left footer so should have look to pass it (he probably did and didn't see Walker because Murphy is shit or did and it was just another of his shit pass), Rachele was an easy goal for a right footer and should have kicked it.

 

[ABAB]

Coaches votes:

Adelaide v Greater Western Sydney​

10 Izak Rankine (ADEL)
8 Mitchell Hinge (ADEL)
3 Jordan Dawson (ADEL)
3 Darcy Fogarty (ADEL)
2 Harry Himmelberg (GWS)
2 Ben Keays (ADEL)
1 Joshua Rachele (ADEL)
1 Tom Green (GWS)

Previously, I had posted "Rankine, Hinge, Fogarty, Dawson, Berry, Walker." and missed Rachele and Keays.
Keays was much busier than I picked; 21 disposals, with 8 tackles, decent game.
Rachele for his 2 goals, looks like.

2 goals, 4 behinds and 18 disposals.

 

[CrowBloke]

Rachele was an easy goal for a right footer and should have kicked it.

BOTH Murphy and Rachele would have created "easy" goals if they had shared the ball, both times for Tex.

 

[ABAB]

BOTH Murphy and Rachele would have created "easy" goals if they had shared the ball, both times for Tex.

Rachele shot on goal was as easy as Walker's, he stuffed it and had a poor night on goal.