Review R22: The Good, Bad and Ugly vs. Footscray

[Southerntakeover]

I'd say my bottom 4 is:
Ken
Lyon
Goodwin
Brad Scott

My top 4 are:
Longmire
Hardwick
McRae
Christ Scott

What's yours

Listing actual premiership and multiple time grand final coaches below a guy who's never made the finals

 

[George Kramer]

I'd say my bottom 4 is:
Ken
Lyon
Goodwin
Brad Scott

My top 4 are:
Longmire
Hardwick
McRae
Christ Scott

What's yours

What the actual ****?

This has to be the worst post in the history of the internet.

Including premiership coaches, grand final coaches, finals coaches as worse than our coach who hasn’t made finals in 5 years and with a number of **** ups this year is beyond insane.

And the thing is we all know if Nicks was coaching anyone bar us he’d be top of your list, that’s what makes it so hard to take any of you club sycophants so seriously, expand your thinking beyond “Crows good”

 

[skam85]

What the actual ****?

This has to be the worst post in the history of the internet.

Including premiership coaches, grand final coaches, finals coaches as worse than our coach who hasn’t made finals in 5 years and with a number of **** ups this year is beyond insane.

And the thing is we all know if Nicks was coaching anyone bar us he’d be top of your list, that’s what makes it so hard to take any of you club sycophants so seriously, expand your thinking beyond “Crows good”

A guy that has his team 2nd on the ladder at the start of Rd 23 is one of the worst coaches

 

[CrowBloke]

My top 4 are:
Longmire
Hardwick
McRae
Christ Scott

He's good, but he's not that good ...

 

[cleanhands]

He's good, but he's not that good ...

missed that good pickup

 

[Bazz_27]

Listing actual premiership and multiple time grand final coaches below a guy who's never made the finals

Where's your list?

 

[CrowBloke]

I'd say my bottom 4 is:
Ken
Lyon
Goodwin
Brad Scott

+

Wow, all 4 of those bottom 4 coaches have resumes nicks could only dream of.

Ken 60% ==> PF
Lyon 55.4% ==> GF
Goodwin 56.9% ==> Flag
Brad Scott 50.2% ==> PF
Daylight
Even more Daylight
and then, our loser Nicks 35.6% ==> best, 10th

I'd take the W/L record of any of your 4 worst Coaches over Nicks, in a millisecond.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Where's your list?

Nicks is comfortably the permanently positioned coach in the league with the least going for him.

The only one as unaccomplished is Yze, and he's in his first season.

 

[Southerntakeover]

+

Ken 60% ==> PF
Lyon 55.4% ==> GF
Goodwin 56.9% ==> Flag
Brad Scott 50.2% ==> PF
Daylight
Even more Daylight
and then, our loser Nicks 35.6% ==> best, 10th

I'd take the W/L record of any of your 4 worst Coaches over Nicks, in a millisecond.

The anti-ken, pro Nicks crowd is one of the wildest things.

Like, his selling point was having been 'mentored' by Ken.

 

[davos44]

Why?

The vibe.

 

[Scorpus]

I'd say my bottom 4 is:
Ken
Lyon
Goodwin
Brad Scott

My top 4 are:
Longmire
Hardwick
McRae
Christ Scott

What's yours

Bottom 4:
Nicks - comfortably worse than any other coach and his record says as much
Brad Scott
Goodwin - though miles ahead of the other two, and largely based on what he's done since winning a flag
Voss - don't rate him

Hinkley and Lyon aren't far off

Top 4:
Chris Scott
Longmire
Hardwick
McRae

(Not evaluated: Yze, too soon)

 

[George Kramer]

The vibe.

So the fact you’re only giving him one year now shows you and the club were wrong to give him 2 at the beginning, so I think that’s a good sign you’re wrong about giving him an extra year now

 

[Scorpus]

Nicks is comfortably the permanently positioned coach in the league with the least going for him.

The only one as unaccomplished is Yze, and he's in his first season.

If a given team had to hire a head coach right now and could only pick from current head coaches, I think Nicks would be picked last for that role (similar to Yze)

I imagine they'd be picked based on

Flags - C. Scott, Longmire, Hardwick, McRae, Clarkson, Beveridge, Simpson, Goodwin
Grand Final but no flags - Fagan, Lyon
Finals wins - Hinkley, Longmuir, Kingsley, B. Scott, Voss
Made finals - Mitchell (probably)

All those guys would be picked first

And that would leave Nicks and Yze last picked

 

[Bazz_27]

+

Ken 60% ==> PF
Lyon 55.4% ==> GF
Goodwin 56.9% ==> Flag
Brad Scott 50.2% ==> PF
Daylight
Even more Daylight
and then, our loser Nicks 35.6% ==> best, 10th

I'd take the W/L record of any of your 4 worst Coaches over Nicks, in a millisecond.

I did my record based on lists available to the coaches. Lyon is no improvement on Ratten, Goodwin had a list that was good enough for multiple flags, choked massively, Ken again had a list good enough to make a GF at least but never got there.

When looking at Nicks people seem to forget the list he inherited was cooked, physically and mentally from the camp saga and the 17 GF. It's pretty unfair to compare him to coaches that have come in with a list ready to compete or coaches that have coached for 10+ years

If Nicks was sacked tomorrow then he of course would have to be ranked last of all coaches as his record is poor, hopefully for all of us it turns around next year and his record improves and adds finals wins to his CV

 

[Bazz_27]

I'm curious where does everyone rate our list compared to the rest of the comp?

Depth wise I think we aren't far above if not equal with North & Eagles?

Best 22 available I would have us behind:

Dees
Giants
Blues
Cats
Swans
Dogs
Port
Lions
Pies

In a group with:
Suns
Dons
Freo
Hawks
Eagles
Richmond
Saints

Above:
North

 

[davos44]

So, your view is the decision to play him there was right because it didn't damage his confidence, but dropping him good because his confidence was damaged.

And you ask for this view to be taken seriously?

If a player is down on confidence playing at AFL level, then its best to send them to the SANFL to gain some confidence playing at a lower level before trying again at AFL level. <--- thats my view.

Its a viewpoint on the hypothesis: Dan Curtin was down on confidence (because Matthew Nicks is an awful coach and mistreated him?)

I don't think Dan Curtin had confidence issues at all personally.

If you begin playing Halo on legendary (yes I know you can't) and aren't good at it do you smash your XBOX and return to Perth or lower the difficulty?

 

[davos44]

So the fact you’re only giving him one year now shows you and the club were wrong to give him 2 at the beginning, so I think that’s a good sign you’re wrong about giving him an extra year now

Yes, the club did jump the gun. I was being flippant

Its a combo of good players being down on form/injuries/losing a great forwards coach/a poor start/14 weeks before a bye (other clubs had 6-10) which contributed to a poor season and not all of them were down to Nicks.

 

[Bazz_27]

Yes, the club did jump the gun. I was being flippant

Its a combo of good players being down on form/injuries/losing a great forwards coach/a poor start/14 weeks before a bye (other clubs had 6-10) which contributed to a poor season and not all of them were down to Nicks.

Nah it's all Nicks, Silvers, Reid, Kelly & Hamish's fault

 

[George Kramer]

Yes, the club did jump the gun. I was being flippant

Its a combo of good players being down on form/injuries/losing a great forwards coach/a poor start/14 weeks before a bye (other clubs had 6-10) which contributed to a poor season and not all of them were down to Nicks.

Who spent all preseason implementing a defensive gameplan which restricted our scoring strength and started the season at 0-4?

Who put Pedlar on Stewart and then gave up?

Who was in denial about our vanilla midfield until he finally made the change?

Who has made many baffling selection mistakes?

Who has not ONCE taken responsibility for any errors he’s made?

 

[George Kramer]

Nah it's all Nicks, Silvers, Reid, Kelly & Hamish's fault

You mean it’s the clubs fault for the recruitment, selection, gameplan and form of its players?

You might want to take the day off

 

[tinman]

I did my record based on lists available to the coaches. Lyon is no improvement on Ratten, Goodwin had a list that was good enough for multiple flags, choked massively, Ken again had a list good enough to make a GF at least but never got there.

When looking at Nicks people seem to forget the list he inherited was cooked, physically and mentally from the camp saga and the 17 GF. It's pretty unfair to compare him to coaches that have come in with a list ready to compete or coaches that have coached for 10+ years

If Nicks was sacked tomorrow then he of course would have to be ranked last of all coaches as his record is poor, hopefully for all of us it turns around next year and his record improves and adds finals wins to his CV

I just don’t get this. With very few exceptions, coaches get sacked, and the new guy gets the gig when teams are performing poorly and a rabble. Do you reckon Nicks was the only coach to get a team rebuilding or underperforming? How was Port going when Hinkley took over?

It’s like the injuries excuse. We aren’t the only club to get them. Absolutely they impact our performance, especially when they are to key players. Just like every other club.

When we are assessing a coaches performance over 6 years, do you think that we’ve just had a particularly bad run?

The worry for me is that we’ve been so poor for so long that we get early draft picks, and games into talented kids, that lead to an upsurge in performance, that sees us around the mark for finals. Almost in spite of the coach. And then we’re stuck with the coach. I don’t believe that we’re seeing the improvement we should be. And for the first 4 games this year we were terribly coached. Watching hurt my eyes.

I accept that my views are just a very subjective opinion. But I think Nicks has to turn it around and improve or he’ll lose all but the most faithful.

 

[Bazz_27]

I just don’t get this. With very few exceptions, coaches get sacked, and the new guy gets the gig when teams are performing poorly and a rabble. Do you reckon Nicks was the only coach to get a team rebuilding or underperforming? How was Port going when Hinkley took over?

It’s like the injuries excuse. We aren’t the only club to get them. Absolutely they impact our performance, especially when they are to key players. Just like every other club.

When we are assessing a coaches performance over 6 years, do you think that we’ve just had a particularly bad run?

The worry for me is that we’ve been so poor for so long that we get early draft picks, and games into talented kids, that lead to an upsurge in performance, that sees us around the mark for finals. Almost in spite of the coach. And then we’re stuck with the coach. I don’t believe that we’re seeing the improvement we should be. And for the first 4 games this year we were terribly coached. Watching hurt my eyes.

I accept that my views are just a very subjective opinion. But I think Nicks has to turn it around and improve or he’ll lose all but the most faithful.

I get your point, he isn't the only rebuild coach. Our rebuild IMO was pretty deep (you can argue the merits of it but given the cultural issues I think it was warranted).

Hardwick didn't win a final for his first 8 years, made finals in year 4. When he took over he had:

• Deledio (22)
• Riewoldt (20)
• Cotchin (19)
• jackson (22)
• Edwards (20)

Experienced players in their peak:

• McMahon
• Pettifer
• Tuck
• Shulz
• Jake King

Nicks had (under 22)

• Hamill
• McHenry - about to be delisted
• Sholl - first solid season in 24
• Jones - in no mans land
• Butts - Solid best 22 if not injured
• Fog - KPF ready to explode
• McPherson - Gone
• Murphy- less said the better
• Stengle - Gone
• Poholke - Gone
• Himmelberg - about to go
• Gooch - Gone
• Milera - Always injured
• Davis - gone
• Doedee - Gone

Experienced at their peak :

• Smith
• Crouch
• Laird
• Brown
• Talia
• Seed
• Hartigan
• Lynch
• Tex
• Sloane

Our mix was the opposite of the tigers. Most rebuild coaches come in with talent coming through but the only players that have followed Nicks through that are best 22 are Fog & Butts

I don't think Nicks is the same level as Hardwick but worth noting some clubs have had experience sticking with coaches through rebuilds. Given next season is Nicks 6th season he has had enough time to draft in talent to be good enough to be in finals, he can't survive if he doesn't make finals next season. Probably won't get an extension unless he wins a final either. If we make finals and win none next year then the pressure will be on in 26 to win a final or move him on

 

[George Kramer]

I get your point, he isn't the only rebuild coach. Our rebuild IMO was pretty deep (you can argue the merits of it but given the cultural issues I think it was warranted).

Hardwick didn't win a final for his first 8 years, made finals in year 4. When he took over he had:

• Deledio (22)
• Riewoldt (20)
• Cotchin (19)
• jackson (22)
• Edwards (20)

Experienced players in their peak:

• McMahon
• Pettifer
• Tuck
• Shulz
• Jake King

Nicks had (under 22)

• Hamill
• McHenry - about to be delisted
• Sholl - first solid season in 24
• Jones - in no mans land
• Butts - Solid best 22 if not injured
• Fog - KPF ready to explode
• McPherson - Gone
• Murphy- less said the better
• Stengle - Gone
• Poholke - Gone
• Himmelberg - about to go
• Gooch - Gone
• Milera - Always injured
• Davis - gone
• Doedee - Gone

Experienced at their peak :

• Smith
• Crouch
• Laird
• Brown
• Talia
• Seed
• Hartigan
• Lynch
• Tex
• Sloane

Our mix was the opposite of the tigers. Most rebuild coaches come in with talent coming through but the only players that have followed Nicks through that are best 22 are Fog & Butts

I don't think Nicks is the same level as Hardwick but worth noting some clubs have had experience sticking with coaches through rebuilds. Given next season is Nicks 6th season he has had enough time to draft in talent to be good enough to be in finals, he can't survive if he doesn't make finals next season. Probably won't get an extension unless he wins a final either. If we make finals and win none next year then the pressure will be on in 26 to win a final or move him on

And your opinion of the numerous errors he’s made this year in his fifth year?

 

[davos44]

Who spent all preseason implementing a defensive gameplan which restricted our scoring strength and started the season at 0-4?

Who put Pedlar on Stewart and then gave up?

Who was in denial about our vanilla midfield until he finally made the change?

Who has made many baffling selection mistakes?

Who has not ONCE taken responsibility for any errors he’s made?

Isn't one of our issues that we get scored against quickly? Do we need a defensive aspect to our play? I think it worked in patches ie. that 2nd qtr against hawthorn, against Geelongs absolute avalanche, the Bulldogs had it in their front half most of the game. Nicks is damned if he plays the kids and damned if he doesn't make finals.

You could have had 3 players on Stewart that night, we kept kicking it to him. I'm done with Pedlar as well, delist him.

You can't just magic good midfielders into a side, it takes development and training. Soligo was a couple of weeks behind due to an injury and did Nicks not put him in the middle? Rankine is special but we only have 1 of him.

Walker goes down, he has Burgess, Gollant or Berg to choose from. Were there kids in the SANFL midfield that were racking up 30+ a game to replace the Vanilla midfield? Any small forwards with 3+ goals a game getting dudded to keep Murphy or McHenry in the side? No, Murphy sucks but he is just slightly better than McFumbles (not a high bar, but a bar)

Incorrect (there is at least one mistake he admitted to):



Anyway:

Good: Nicks Coaching against the Bulldogs <--- on topic.

 

[davos44]

I get your point, he isn't the only rebuild coach. Our rebuild IMO was pretty deep (you can argue the merits of it but given the cultural issues I think it was warranted).

Hardwick didn't win a final for his first 8 years, made finals in year 4. When he took over he had:

• Deledio (22)
• Riewoldt (20)
• Cotchin (19)
• jackson (22)
• Edwards (20)

Experienced players in their peak:

• McMahon
• Pettifer
• Tuck
• Shulz
• Jake King

Nicks had (under 22)

• Hamill
• McHenry - about to be delisted
• Sholl - first solid season in 24
• Jones - in no mans land
• Butts - Solid best 22 if not injured
• Fog - KPF ready to explode
• McPherson - Gone
• Murphy- less said the better
• Stengle - Gone
• Poholke - Gone
• Himmelberg - about to go
• Gooch - Gone
• Milera - Always injured
• Davis - gone
• Doedee - Gone

Experienced at their peak :

• Smith
• Crouch
• Laird
• Brown
• Talia
• Seed
• Hartigan
• Lynch
• Tex
• Sloane

Our mix was the opposite of the tigers. Most rebuild coaches come in with talent coming through but the only players that have followed Nicks through that are best 22 are Fog & Butts

I don't think Nicks is the same level as Hardwick but worth noting some clubs have had experience sticking with coaches through rebuilds. Given next season is Nicks 6th season he has had enough time to draft in talent to be good enough to be in finals, he can't survive if he doesn't make finals next season. Probably won't get an extension unless he wins a final either. If we make finals and win none next year then the pressure will be on in 26 to win a final or move him on

I would say that our rebuild started in 2022, it was almost like the fire had to be put out and the debris cleared away from 20-21.