List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[Jirkago75]

Haven’t got the list age or talent in the experienced players department to get to 12 wins IMO

I think Nicks will be judged on wins partly but also player development and game style which needs to evolve and improve

I’m happy to have the same as this year as long as we see a few more talented players improve or break out. Think we have one more year of pain before we make finals

 

[Peter Doherty]

Can I ask how Frampton went?

He gave some Norwood fans the bird at one point

 

[Soggy2112]

Can't see any one wanting Mcasey on his work today.

It’s bizarre he can clearly mark the ball, but he barely looks like he gets out of second gear.

 

[crow2crow]

I didn't watch the game, but see he had a bunch of touches and 16 tackles

Still think it's ludicrous to not give him a pre-season and another year to see how he develops

after seeing that he is probably ahead of keays to be honest

i wonder if keays could be straight swapped for rankine given he is from queensland and one of the few that would be happy to go

GC supporters are angry cos they dont need picks. whilst some in here are not that complementary of keays he tries his guts out and his official player ranking is actually 39, as opposed to izaks 185. keays would be a best22 for GC like he is for us.
turner could probably play that same role as keays though currently whilst bez, pez, shoey, soligo, taylor develop in rotation.

i would rather have rankine and turner than keays and murphy put it that way

 

[Soggy2112]

strachan should be AFL and trade ROB (I know this is divisive) but... just do it

I like ROB and back him to bounce back next season and would still have him ahead of Strachan, however would not be against trading him.

Strachan is definitely AFL standard and if it means we can get ROB’s contract off our books that would be awesome. However I don’t see any other club wanting to take him on. If you want a top line ruck and are willing to take a big contract off another club’s hands you’d be into Grundy not ROB.

 

[crow2crow]

I like ROB and back him to bounce back next season and would still have him ahead of Strachan, however would not be against trading him.

Strachan is definitely AFL standard and if it means we can get ROB’s contract off our books that would be awesome. However I don’t see any other club wanting to take him on. If you want a top line ruck and are willing to take a big contract off another club’s hands you’d be into Grundy not ROB.

i think the boat has sailed on grundy for us although i badly wanted him before he signed new contract

i think ROB has draft capital that we need this year and i reckon strachan would give us same or better result that ROB anyway so why not use the capital

just my take

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I think you guys are seriously underrating our current list .....yes we are young, but young does not mean talentless !

We'll play Finals in 2024 .....a few posted during the year, we were another 5 years away from Finals, and have to do another rebuild ......seriously, this is pure emotion talking after losses

We're a couple of building blocks short (players) .....and another 30 games of experience

like the confidence , hope you're right

 

[Ramify]

Nicks was credited with instilling a competitive edge to get GWS to their first Grand Final ......in his first year, the team was viewed running in waves, orange tsunami style .....but he had a more mature team at his disposal

You can either play a style immediately that is your preferred style .....or tailor it to your personnel at the time .....depends on whether you want big losses ?

Apart from Dawson .....who were our elite ball users in the back half this year ......I can't think of any ??? .....Parnel, but a huge ask of a player who has only played a few games

Yes exactly, competitive. I have no knock on him in regard to getting players to compete. He does however have a proclivity to select naturally "competitive" or rather "contested" type players over naturally talented, positionally appropriate or higher footy I.Q type players, which I feel makes him look a bit better in this regard than he would if he spent time either trying to make the above mentioned types more competitive or was more system focused.

Assuming your theory is correct, throwing Dawson down back as a stopgap is counter-productive on 3 fronts at least.

1) It shelters the backline from taking responsibility for their own system(if there is one) and poor ball movement, thus impeding growth and cohesion.
2) Robs both midfield and Fwd units of a player who I hope we recruited with prime moving midfielder in mind.
3) We Crowify one of our only naturally attacking players capable of sublime fwd delivery and gaining meters with ball in hand and he simply becomes one more of the same ala Smith. <- This has already started to happen with Dawson.

Ask yourself weather our backline has looked better or worse since Dawson arrived. I'd say it has gone backwards in most areas besides maybe Stoppage exits.
Is this stop gap approach sustainable or do we need to start training better defensive systems at some stage?
Dawson only needed to play 3 games in defence in order to show our players/coaches how to transition ball from defense to attack like a grownup football team. They(Coaches)then take what they have learnt from Dawson, add any bit of strategic system more complex than "see ball, get ball,blitzkrieg" that they(coaches) have picked up over their times in various AFL systems ,and start making better use of any proficient ball users on our list who aren't to be considered attacking weapons I.e, Jones, Smith, Frampton,Hinge,Parnell,Scholl and others.

Seriously, walking Dawson into the backline as a cover all, is NOT a defensive system. It's lazy Coaching.

Sorry, this is probably hard to read but can't edit atm.

 

[crow2crow]

Yes exactly, competitive. I have no knock on him in regard to getting players to compete. He does however have a proclivity to select naturally "competitive" or rather "contests" type players over naturally talented, positionally appropriate or higher footy I.Q players which I feel makes him look a bit better in this regard than he would if he spent time either trying to make the above mentioned types more competitive or was more system focused.

Assuming your theory is correct, throwing Dawson down back as a stopgap is counter-productive on 3 fronts at least.
1) It shelters the backline from taking responsibility for their own system(if there is one) and poor ball movement, thus impeding growth and cohesion
2) Robs both midfield and Fwd units of a player who I hope we recruited to with prime moving midfielder in mind.
3) We Crowify one of our only naturally attacking players capable of sublime fwd delivery and gaining meters with ball in hand and he simply becomes one more of the same ala Smith. <- This has already started to happen with Dawson.

Ask yourself weather our backline has looked better or worse since Dawson arrived. I'd say it has gone backwards in most areas besides maybe Stoppage exits.
Is this stop gap pproach sustainable or do we need to start training better defensive systems at some stage?
Dawson only needed to play 3 games in defence in order to show our players/coaches how to transition ball from defense to attack like a grownup football team. They(Coaches)then take what they have learnt from Dawson, add any bit of strategic system more complex than "see ball, get ball" that they have picked up over their times in the AFL system, and make use of any proficient ball users on our list who aren't to be considered attacking weapons I.e, Jones, Smith, Frampton,Hinge,Parnell,Scholl and others.

Seriously, walking Dawson into the backline as a cover all, is NOT a defensive system. It's lazy Coaching.

nobody else could mark in d50 this year its as simple as that. i'm with you that you want him on wing pushing forward but nobody was getting the job done. limited options but i would prefer hinge at HB and dawson on wing than other way. i know others like murray but i dont see a role for him.

 

[Crow till I die]

It is interesting that in all likelihood we will have two big contracts in Sloane and Tex come off our books in the next 24 months. That’s got to worth a free agent or two coming our way.
Or another trade option.

Or leaves more money to better pay our better players in the medium term

 

[NTRabbit]

If you could combine Frampton and Murray into one player we'd have the CHB we need going forward.

Age old story sadly.

 

[Ramify]

nobody else could mark in d50 this year its as simple as that. i'm with you that you want him on wing pushing forward but nobody was getting the job done. limited options but i would prefer hinge at HB and dawson on wing than other way. i know others like murray but i dont see a role for him.

And relying on Dawson to mark in our defensive 50 teaches our backmen to mark in def 50 how?
This is my point, He is a Placebo not a solution.

 

[Golumless]

George, you'll have to watch the variations as they occur .....as I've said, perfect explanation, but I doubt you'll agree with me, if I explain it again .....I have posted why recently

Dawson has nothing to do with Nicks current style .....and everything to do with protecting underperforming KPD's who are reasonably poor disposers of the ball ....and for that, also not great contested marks, albeit Murray is improving

Partly, though likely not the main reason. More it's probably the case of if you only have one top tier outside midfield, the most bang for buck place you can put them is in that quarterback style half back flanker role. After all, that role acts as a lynchpin for an offensive game.

 

[crow2crow]

And relying on Dawson to mark in our defensive 50 teaches our backmen to mark in def 50 how?
This is my point, He is a Placebo not a solution.

Yes i get it - its a massive waste not to mention we probably told him he's playing midfield and now he isn't

I expect dodee butts worrell to all be better in 2023 and he shouldn't need to be doen there i hope

 

[Golumless]

The problem is none of our midfielders apart from Berry and Laird are any good in the contest. Even Keays and Crouch win the majority of their possessions uncontested.

Add to that a bottom three first choice ruckman and you can see why we are forced to address the bleeding by throwing additional numbers into the contest.

The vast majority of midfielders win more outside ball then inside. It does not reflect capability in the contest, just that they know how the accumulate and usually there are more instances of uncontested play. You want stats that reflect it, you're looking at ground ball gets and clearances from what we have available. To show this, of players who average >= 10 contested possessions a game, 75% of them are under 50% contested ball rate.

On a tangential note - it's probably the issue that ended up making Sloane susceptible to being shut down 2-3 times a season as he never found a consistent way to accumulate a lot of outside/easy ball (seeing he usually operated in that 53-60% cpg range).

 

[Ramify]

Yes i get it - its a massive waste not to mention we probably told him he's playing midfield and now he isn't

I expect dodee butts worrell to all be better in 2023 and he shouldn't need to be doen there i hope

Here's hoping.
If Dawson trains as a defender all preseason and we are relying on the def unit to just get better organically,then I think we are in a world of pain going forward.

Definition of insanity and all that.

 

[Crow_68]

Fast forward a couple of years and can’t help but be excited at the thought of Berry, Rankine, Soligo, Pedlar, Taylor and Rachele rotating through our midfield….

 

[BrissyCrow]

I think you guys are seriously underrating our current list .....yes we are young, but young does not mean talentless !

We'll play Finals in 2024 .....a few posted during the year, we were another 5 years away from Finals, and have to do another rebuild ......seriously, this is pure emotion talking after losses

We're a couple of building blocks short (players) .....and another 30 games of experience

Yeah I tend to agree. We wont play finals next year but we might get there in 2024. Someone was suggesting we could win four more games next year but I cant see that. Maybe 10 which is realistic and I still think thats being positive as well.

 

[tinman]

We're a couple of building blocks short (players) .....and another 30 games of experience

Please not too many more short players

 

[Thetrader15]

Fast forward a couple of years and can’t help but be excited at the thought of Berry, Rankine, Soligo, Pedlar, Taylor and Rachele rotating through our midfield….

Please not too many more short players

 

[Mego Red]

Yes exactly, competitive. I have no knock on him in regard to getting players to compete. He does however have a proclivity to select naturally "competitive" or rather "contested" type players over naturally talented, positionally appropriate or higher footy I.Q type players, which I feel makes him look a bit better in this regard than he would if he spent time either trying to make the above mentioned types more competitive or was more system focused.

Assuming your theory is correct, throwing Dawson down back as a stopgap is counter-productive on 3 fronts at least.

1) It shelters the backline from taking responsibility for their own system(if there is one) and poor ball movement, thus impeding growth and cohesion.
2) Robs both midfield and Fwd units of a player who I hope we recruited with prime moving midfielder in mind.
3) We Crowify one of our only naturally attacking players capable of sublime fwd delivery and gaining meters with ball in hand and he simply becomes one more of the same ala Smith.
Ask yourself weather our backline has looked better or worse since Dawson arrived. I'd say it has gone backwards in most areas besides maybe Stoppage exits.
Is this stop gap approach sustainable or do we need to start training better defensive systems at some stage?
Dawson only needed to play 3 games in defence in order to show our players/coaches how to transition ball from defense to attack like a grownup football team. They(Coaches)then take what they have learnt from Dawson, add any bit of strategic system more complex than "see ball, get ball,blitzkrieg" that they(coaches) have picked up over their times in various AFL systems ,and start making better use of any proficient ball users on our list who aren't to be considered attacking weapons I.e, Jones, Smith, Frampton,Hinge,Parnell,Scholl and others.

Seriously, walking Dawson into the backline as a cover all, is NOT a defensive system. It's lazy Coaching.

Sorry, this is probably hard to read but can't edit atm.

Isn't Dawson playing the same position with us that he played with Sydney?

He seems to want to be the quarterback who's starting chains of play from the backline, instead of our on one wing where you can get cold watching the ball on the other side of the ground.

Maybe I'm misremembering his Sydney time, but it seems like he's doing the same role.

 

[Bearded Clam]

after seeing that he is probably ahead of keays to be honest

i wonder if keays could be straight swapped for rankine given he is from queensland and one of the few that would be happy to go

GC supporters are angry cos they dont need picks. whilst some in here are not that complementary of keays he tries his guts out and his official player ranking is actually 39, as opposed to izaks 185. keays would be a best22 for GC like he is for us.
turner could probably play that same role as keays though currently whilst bez, pez, shoey, soligo, taylor develop in rotation.

i would rather have rankine and turner than keays and murphy put it that way

“Keays straight swapped for Rankine”

What the fk would the Suns want with a midfielder/forward with little talent, very poor skills and is a shit decision maker?..

When they have a heap of talented midfielder/forwards in their side already and will be adding a couple more with all their good draft picks this year…

Id rather Rankine and Turner too.. so you’d have to think the Suns would as well!

Rankine will cost us pick 5.. I think many in here still hvent come to terms with that!

 

[adelaidecrows]

“Keays straight swapped for Rankine”

What the fk would the Suns want with a midfielder/forward with little talent, very poor skills and is a s**t decision maker?..

When they have a heap of talented midfielder/forwards in their side already and will be adding a couple more with all their good draft picks this year…

Id rather Rankine and Turner too.. so you’d have to think the Suns would as well!

Rankine will cost us pick 5.. I think many in here still hvent come to terms with that!

I agree with you over Rankine being Pick 5. Its just playstation trading to think it could be anything but.

I don't understand this clubs supporters want to find a player to hate. Some of the anti Keays rhetoric is kind of pathetic. The only issue he has is poor skills. But all of a sudden, people start smashing every aspect of his game to make him look like this pathetic player with no talent.

We all know he needs to work on his skills. Stick to that, no need to make up things just to inflate your perspective.

 

[Jetwa5h]

First 6 selected is surely Tex, TT, Fog, Rachelle, McAdam and Rankine. 7th defender on the bench, leaves 3 bench spots. Surely 2 are rotating mids and the 4th definitely not an extra tall.

edit - forgot to mention that I like Murray and reckon he's developing well as a KPD, but adding him to the forward group is insanity.

Murry Forward....At least he does not mind crashing packs, tell him before every game that whom ever the opposition drop in the hole gets a knee in the back of the head lol

 

[Jeffcrowe]

the best 22 was only a little worse than the year before and I can't imagine that it got more broken under him than it was in 2019 with Pyke and Burton running the show.

I don't think he's that bad, in fact I think he's ok, just he's the absolute wrong person for a rebuild. But I do think it's flawed to benchmark from the position we finished at the end of his first year. We lost only a couple of best 22 players, certainly none from the top 10 and the player happiness levels should have improved during 2020, not gotten worse.

Takes a while to put your blueprint on , especially after such a big debacle

If we’d come bottom in his 2nd or 3rd year I’d agree

Early stage rebuild coach I think he’s ok

Can he take us next level - not sure yet