List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Keys]

I have a huge problem with this.

We have cash reserves of what 60M sitting in the bank doing sweet * all. Why arent we paying the tax and take advantage!! More development coaches, S&C and recruitment .etc

Its one thing we have in our favour overwhelmingly.

Do you know how the soft cap tax works?

It is designed to totally discourage teams from exceeding as the cost is exorbitant



For arguments sake, let’s say we decide to spend an extra $400k on staff across recruitment, medical and coaching to make a significant difference. There’s no point doing this for just one year as you’d put people in only to move them on a year later so it becomes a 3 year commitment

The tax in year 1 would be $600k, then $900k for year 2 and $1.2m for year 3

The total cost for exceeding the cap by $400k per year for 3 years would be $1.2m plus $2.7m in taxes

Thats a financially stupid decision

Edit : I said spend $400k to make a significant difference- in reality that’s only an extra 5.7% on the existing cap of $6.95m so it’s debatable just how much that extra spend would actually achieve

 

[dinnaz]

The total cost for exceeding the cap by $400k per year for 3 years would be $1.2m plus $2.7m in taxes

How much is the rumored treasure trove?
60 mill should be spitting out at least an extra million a year in interest. That's enough for a permanent position somewhere off field.

 

[Avalor]

It's an interesting read alright

The third match of the round-robin series against Melbourne was umpired by an experienced man in H. "Ivo" Crapp. Condon would not leave Crapp alone all day. He sealed his fate when he was free-kicked for tripping a Melbourne man in the second quarter and said to Crapp: "Your girl's a bloody whore."

Collingwood would suit him to a tee then.

 

[ghostbat12]

How much is the rumored treasure trove?
60 mill should be spitting out at least an extra million a year in interest. That's enough for a permanent position somewhere off field.

It’s amazing how people are always open to spending other’s money.

And of course it’s always those that make money that are the stupid ones. Never the broke bogans.

Trevor didn’t build the “treasure trove” by acting stupid and taking advice from those who unlikely can manage their household budget.

 

[Obeanie1]

HERE IS A LIST OF WA TALENT THAT I WOULD LIKE ON OUR LIST

ADELAIDE - NO ONE
BRISBANE
JAMES TUNSTILL very good talent not getting a game at a club heavy with midfield talent
I honestly believe he is a much better talent than Devon Robertson
Carlton
Jack Martin is 28 now if you can get him cheap could play a Mark LeCras role not one I would chase to hard
Collingwood
Edward Allan keep a eye him toward the future see how he develops
Ashley Johnston has ability just starting to realise he can impact at this level
Essendon
Nick Martin what can i say should be playing for us now taking that swan district defender in the rookie instead of him was the worst decision
we have done in a while, running machine with a great tank
Geelong - no one
Gold Coast
Jeremy Sharp - another great runner good size now
Will Powell - instant upgrade on our defenders similar to Duggan in style of play just better
Ned Moyle - ruck 21 year old great size and moves well one to keep eye on for a few years
GWS
Sam Taylor 23 years of age and best defender in league god i would love him
Hawthorn
Denver Grainger-Barrass developing defender but at 194cm seems to short and struggles against really tall oponents
Tyler Brockman i love him as a junior and shown good signs at Hawks small forward
Melbourne
Jacob Van Rooyen - great talent has huge leap good hands and loves the physical side he is small as a key forward but
plays a little like jack darling though he has a better leap
Trent Rivers - has moved into midfield now once out of contract should look at Melbourne wont be able to pay what he is worth
Kysaiah Pickett - was a WCE target his draft year until he had to good a season and we couldn't get him is leaving Melbourne at end of season
only 4 clubs in the chase port Adelaide Freo and WCE we should be targeting him is only 21 still most of his family is in wa
Judd McVee - rookie list player has been great like him as a junior taking game on from back half beautiful foot skills would be terrific for our
backline
North Melbourne
Cameron Zurhaar loved him in his under 18 championship and have always watched him, missed the boat signed with north last year
will be free agent when next comes available
Port
SPS- signed up for life at port i think not what we need
Mitch Georgiades - have totally gone of him undersized forward we have Waterman who is better and has better tank
Richmond
Has s**t load of WA boys Liam Baker resigned same with Shai both will finish at Richmond
Ben Miller good sized key defender that is improving
Kaleb Smith - one of my favourites was due to play round 1 before injury and is said by Richmond people as one of there most impressive draftee's
in the last few years will miss most of season with foot injury
Saint Kilda - no one
Sydney
Chad Warner - 21 years of age and one of the best mid's in the AFL if not the most damaging currently contest clearance goal kicking mid's don't go on tree's
Logan McDonald - talk has been hasn't adjusted to Sydney lifestyle yet future target for us
Corey Warner - debut recently and looked good
Lachlan McAndrew 22 year old Ruckman heard Dean Cox said give him a couple of years will be a star is 210cm tall
Western Bulldogs
Arthur Jones - small forward looks good prospect liked as a junior
Tim English - talk may wont to come home fills a need for us is still only 25
Aaron Naughton - only 23 great forward
Jamarra Ugle-Hagan has WA family but is a Vic boy, but don't think he would leave bulldogs seems very close to the coach

The two Ruckman are not WA boys and are long term watches but Ruckman tend to leave clubs more than any other player type

​

No love for Darcy Jones GWS?

Jack Martin I was thinking could be our next Jetta attacking half back for his last 3 or 4 years.

Moyle is a WA kid? Wow. Would be a good pickup.

Tunstill is another we were keen on I recall.

Good list.

 

[Obeanie1]

Read the game day threads if you think players aren’t being overly criticised at times.

Put some of these players in Geelong jumpers on the weekend and they would go alright. They would be good enough to be the sixth or eighth best midfielder because Dangerfield ect would carry them and it’s easier to play in a good side.

The whole point is that it’s the lack of top end talent that we lack not our bottom end players being our issue. We need to find a number of A graders which the club has started to try and do through the draft.

In the mean time we should enjoy the development of our youth and be understanding of players who are giving there all to the club but are limited in there ability.

They will be moved on by the club when it’s ready. Some of the comments on some of these players are at times over the top but then again clearly people such of yourself seem to think that’s fine.

Enjoy your day I probably won’t read your rant when you reply I’ve seen plenty of your work

Sure we need A grade talent and those dont come easily nor quickly nor cheaply.

They take time.

Upgrading aging role players or underperforming role players is just as important and should not be ignored or put aside as not worth the effort. And every know and again one will love the change of environment and opportunity and become an A grader.

Good point raised recently with our age peofile. We have a lack of best 22 players around 26 to 28 and because of that we are throwing kids in too early and playing older injury prone players when not 100% fit. And so the 8njury cycle goes around and around. We do need some mature role players to help carry the load BUT we need to invest our best picks on youth.

 

[Obeanie1]

If the present crisis has shown the importance of anything then it is the importance of durability of players.

McGovern has been a great player for the club, and was a key component of the 2018 premiership, but currently he is a part time player for us at best. It is debatable whether it’s desirable to retain him on the list at all let alone on a high wage. If he can get a deal somewhere else where we could get a second round compensation pick I would say go for it, otherwise he should only be kept on a minimum short term deal. Just isn’t offering value for money.

Naitanui should not have been signed for two years. If he can’t play this year then we should see how we can pay him out.
There can’t be positions and money invested in players who aren’t playing.

Shuey also has to quit this year. Been a club great but his body can’t do it any longer.

Darling and Hurn are both durable and still making good on field contributions. I would retain them both as on field mentors. Don’t know whether Hurn wants and is able to keep going beyond this year. No disaster if he doesn’t want to.

I don’t know about Gaff. He is durable but is he making an adequate contribution? Certainly wouldn’t be a priority resigning.

I don’t think we’ve got any players that would fetch anything in a trade. Ryan - but he probably wouldn’t want to go.
Can‘t see any other player who would fetch any more than a third round pick. At that low price it’s a matter of whether they’re worth a place on the list or not.

Two other points -

We need some ‘protector’ type players as Yeo showed when he hurt himself. The Dangerfields of the competition should not be able to eye gouge and kick the Ginbeys of our team and get away with it without anyone giving them something back. Players also seem to get up injured after J Cameron tackles them too. We are too soft and nice. Most AFL teams are hard outfits. They bully teams like ours especially without NN and peak Yeo.

What’s with all the ankle injuries? Needs an investigation.

Totally agree with finding an enforcer type or two to protect and back up the kids as they develop. Mathison is a FA this year I believe. Bit of a knob though.

That Dangerfield kick studs up to Ginbey's chest really pissed me off. Commentators joking about Jackie Chan. I thought the AFL must have backflipped on the studs up rule. On Monday others were saying its not on and reportable, fine only. No free paid, well done refs you bunch of numb sculls, easiest free to pay and they forgot the rule.

 

[Obeanie1]

Do you know how the soft cap tax works?

It is designed to totally discourage teams from exceeding as the cost is exorbitant

View attachment 1663707

For arguments sake, let’s say we decide to spend an extra $400k on staff across recruitment, medical and coaching to make a significant difference. There’s no point doing this for just one year as you’d put people in only to move them on a year later so it becomes a 3 year commitment

The tax in year 1 would be $600k, then $900k for year 2 and $1.2m for year 3

The total cost for exceeding the cap by $400k per year for 3 years would be $1.2m plus $2.7m in taxes

Thats a financially stupid decision

Edit : I said spend $400k to make a significant difference- in reality that’s only an extra 5.7% on the existing cap of $6.95m so it’s debatable just how much that extra spend would actually achieve

Wow, that is serious taxation penalties.

You wouldnt spend extra on scouts. Im sure there are other ways to employ and pay for scouts outside the soft cap.

Every club would be doing it.

 

[Astro7]

It’s amazing how people are always open to spending other’s money.

And of course it’s always those that make money that are the stupid ones. Never the broke bogans.

Trevor didn’t build the “treasure trove” by acting stupid and taking advice from those who unlikely can manage their household budget.

Just because you're broke doesn't mean you are a bogan?
Similarly, just because you're a bogan doesn't mean you are broke?

 

[ziad]

How much is the rumored treasure trove?
60 mill should be spitting out at least an extra million a year in interest. That's enough for a permanent position somewhere off field.

we have cash, but be assured the club is really struggling to bring back corporates - where the revenue is.

 

[Rowan18]

we have cash, but be assured the club is really struggling to bring back corporates - where the revenue is.

Yeah, it looks like you can get a ticket to any game you want in any level of corporate hospitality. When we're flying that stuff sells out.

We were thinking of going to field club for the Bombers game but I'm not interested if our injury crisis continues. Might as well just watch a WAFL game than see half a WAFL team get flogged. It will be frustrating enough using my usual seats that I've already paid for.

 

[CountryLad]

Sounds like quite a performance might have a look tonight

This kid Joel Freijah could go top 5 if he plays a handful of games like this. Is a big sized midfielder who booted 6 from playing in the centre square and off the wing. Good decision maker who uses the ball well in general play. First real big mover up the rankings.

Thought under ager Harvey Langford was very impressive and will be spoken about a lot next year.

Stingrays had a couple of other players who stood out in Billy Wilson who dominated off half back. Really nice disposal/decision maker runs and Carry’s the ball. Only made a couple of mistakes late in the game raking up 25 disposals and a goal. The other was Kade De La Rue who is a midfielder who has good pace and bit of class about him. Will see more of him and Joel Freijah for Vic Country.

 

[Membling]

HERE IS A LIST OF WA TALENT THAT I WOULD LIKE ON OUR LIST

ADELAIDE - NO ONE
BRISBANE
JAMES TUNSTILL very good talent not getting a game at a club heavy with midfield talent
I honestly believe he is a much better talent than Devon Robertson
Carlton
Jack Martin is 28 now if you can get him cheap could play a Mark LeCras role not one I would chase to hard
Collingwood
Edward Allan keep a eye him toward the future see how he develops
Ashley Johnston has ability just starting to realise he can impact at this level
Essendon
Nick Martin what can i say should be playing for us now taking that swan district defender in the rookie instead of him was the worst decision
we have done in a while, running machine with a great tank
Geelong - no one
Gold Coast
Jeremy Sharp - another great runner good size now
Will Powell - instant upgrade on our defenders similar to Duggan in style of play just better
Ned Moyle - ruck 21 year old great size and moves well one to keep eye on for a few years
GWS
Sam Taylor 23 years of age and best defender in league god i would love him
Hawthorn
Denver Grainger-Barrass developing defender but at 194cm seems to short and struggles against really tall oponents
Tyler Brockman i love him as a junior and shown good signs at Hawks small forward
Melbourne
Jacob Van Rooyen - great talent has huge leap good hands and loves the physical side he is small as a key forward but
plays a little like jack darling though he has a better leap
Trent Rivers - has moved into midfield now once out of contract should look at Melbourne wont be able to pay what he is worth
Kysaiah Pickett - was a WCE target his draft year until he had to good a season and we couldn't get him is leaving Melbourne at end of season
only 4 clubs in the chase port Adelaide Freo and WCE we should be targeting him is only 21 still most of his family is in wa
Judd McVee - rookie list player has been great like him as a junior taking game on from back half beautiful foot skills would be terrific for our
backline
North Melbourne
Cameron Zurhaar loved him in his under 18 championship and have always watched him, missed the boat signed with north last year
will be free agent when next comes available
Port
SPS- signed up for life at port i think not what we need
Mitch Georgiades - have totally gone of him undersized forward we have Waterman who is better and has better tank
Richmond
Has s**t load of WA boys Liam Baker resigned same with Shai both will finish at Richmond
Ben Miller good sized key defender that is improving
Kaleb Smith - one of my favourites was due to play round 1 before injury and is said by Richmond people as one of there most impressive draftee's
in the last few years will miss most of season with foot injury
Saint Kilda - no one
Sydney
Chad Warner - 21 years of age and one of the best mid's in the AFL if not the most damaging currently contest clearance goal kicking mid's don't go on tree's
Logan McDonald - talk has been hasn't adjusted to Sydney lifestyle yet future target for us
Corey Warner - debut recently and looked good
Lachlan McAndrew 22 year old Ruckman heard Dean Cox said give him a couple of years will be a star is 210cm tall
Western Bulldogs
Arthur Jones - small forward looks good prospect liked as a junior
Tim English - talk may wont to come home fills a need for us is still only 25
Aaron Naughton - only 23 great forward
Jamarra Ugle-Hagan has WA family but is a Vic boy, but don't think he would leave bulldogs seems very close to the coach

The two Ruckman are not WA boys and are long term watches but Ruckman tend to leave clubs more than any other player type

​

Not from what I have heard on the grapevine

Better chance of getting Sheldrick who looks to have been over taken by Roberts and Corey Warner who debuted last week.

 

[Elite Pete]

No love for Darcy Jones GWS?

Jack Martin I was thinking could be our next Jetta attacking half back for his last 3 or 4 years.

Moyle is a WA kid? Wow. Would be a good pickup.

Tunstill is another we were keen on I recall.

Good list.

Jack Martin is injured every 2nd week. Pass for me. Talent but not worth it imo.

 

[Elite Pete]

I really do think we would be mid table if Nic Nat/Yeo/Shuey/Sheed/Cripps/Ryan ect played all season. Have been hit hard with injures but now have to adapt.

Looks a good year imo to get out of contract and solid best 22 players in on the cheap. Dev, Sharpe, Mitch ect.

Get Reid and look to see who are Free Agents in 2024. English ect.

Go get a solid back up ruck. Nick Bryan or Max Lynch. Bailey Williams ain’t it.

You can bounce back pretty quickly in this league with some luck, good game plan and everyone buying in.

This time last year, Crows were asking why Fog couldn’t get a kick in the Magoos. Worst skilled team in the comp by far. 0 injures this year. It can turn quickly.

 

[Elite Pete]

And what’s happening with Neil Erasmus? Can’t get a touch in the WAFL. Only issue he is contract and would take too much to get him over.

 

[Wooshaaaa]

There are clubs who target fringe better than others. I agree that the likes of Ah Chee did not work out. Sydney and Collingwood have usually done better than others.

Fringe at Sydney - Darcy Cameron. Traded to Pies for peanuts and has worked out pretty well.
Fringe at Bulldogs - Pat Lipinski. Traded to Pies for peanuts and has worked out pretty well.
Fringe at Brisbane - Ben Keays. Plays his role very well at Crows.
Fringe at Suns - Will Brodie. Was outstanding in the Dockers midfield last year and again on the weekend.
Sydney have a long record of getting fringe players as role players in their team and do extremely well. Hickey was a recent example.

Based on 2022, I would have put SPS as a fail with us but since he has been settled and enjoying life, he has been pretty good for us in 2023.

I am sick of fringe.

Recent fringes.

SPS
Witherden
Langdon.

I like Robertson. It would be nice for him to get a decent run at it in the 22. If we pay nothing for him then sure. But anything more than a late 3rd rounder is overs.


On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[bzparkes]

Jack Martin is injured every 2nd week. Pass for me. Talent but not worth it imo.

Well, he'd fit right in then.

 

[Rowan18]

I am sick of fringe.

Recent fringes.

SPS
Witherden
Langdon.

I like Robertson. It would be nice for him to get a decent run at it in the 22. If we pay nothing for him then sure. But anything more than a late 3rd rounder is overs.


On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

You left out Jarmaine Jones and Hunt. Also Ah-chee (who was a bust). I think it's about a 50/50 success rate with fringe players, but that's worth the punt when you have list space and salary cap to burn.

 

[Wooshaaaa]

You left out Jarmaine Jones and Hunt. Also Ah-chee (who was a bust). I think it's about a 50/50 success rate with fringe players, but that's worth the punt when you have list space and salary cap to burn.

Jones and hunt are still a watch for me

Sure they're flying in the first 5 games of the year. Are they still flying in 3 years? Or does the Wellingham effect apply to them as well. Playing for a contract, goes well.

Like I said, if we don't pay overs with picks or $ then fine. But any picks inside 50 we need to be taking the punt on the draftees.

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Jones and hunt are still a watch for me

Sure they're flying in the first 5 games of the year. Are they still flying in 3 years? Or does the Wellingham effect apply to them as well. Playing for a contract, goes well.

Like I said, if we don't pay overs with picks or $ then fine. But any picks inside 50 we need to be taking the punt on the draftees.

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

Jones was top 10 in the B&F last year.

The jury should have well and truly come in by now.

 

[Nuffington Post]

And what’s happening with Neil Erasmus? Can’t get a touch in the WAFL. Only issue he is contract and would take too much to get him over.

I think we should be having a crack at him. If we could get him for a second rounder it could be worth it. Who knows maybe Freo are keen given they don’t have a whole lot of draft picks.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Obeanie1]

Not from what I have heard on the grapevine

Better chance of getting Sheldrick who looks to have been over taken by Roberts and Corey Warner who debuted last week.

Read somewhere heard somewhere Logan was happy in Sydney.

I'm hoping we are targeting Don Pike and Dean Cox as our next senior coaches.

If that happened then we could see some WA Swans follow.

 

[Obeanie1]

I think we should be having a crack at him. If we could get him for a second rounder it could be worth it. Who knows maybe Freo are keen given they don’t have a whole lot of draft picks.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Swap for Darling and move on?

 

[Membling]

Read somewhere heard somewhere Logan was happy in Sydney.

I'm hoping we are targeting Don Pike and Dean Cox as our next senior coaches.

If that happened then we could see some WA Swans follow.

I feel cox is being groomed as next after Horse.

Don Pyke has been great, so would not be surprised if he gets poached