List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

You guys are chasing Fisher, we are fine to keep him from my understanding but he'd like to leave after being dropped.

Bowes was owed like 1.2mil per year and was actively shopped around so thats totally different.

If there are rumours of us chasing fisher its just that rumours.

We don't as a club often let our dealings go public .

All I have heard is vic commentary about fisher wanting to come back to WA for opportunity.

 

[Monocle]

All those guys are on bottom dollar .

Fisher has a rumoured 1.1 million over 2 years on his contract.

Salary dump Territory for sure and we are the suckers apparently

You are starting to sound like Trev, don't want to improve our list at the expense of saving money.

 

[briztoon]

You guys are chasing Fisher, we are fine to keep him from my understanding but he'd like to leave after being dropped with a better contract offer over with u.

Bowes was owed like 1.2mil per year and was actively shopped around so thats totally different.

lol, no he wasn't. He was on a backended contract, owed $800k per over the last two years of his contract.

Trade and contract rule tweaks to be considered by AFL after controversial deal

Trade and contract rule tweaks to be considered by AFL after controversial deal

www.foxsports.com.au

Geelong was the first club to exploit the newly-introduced salary dumping, taking pick No.7 and Jack Bowes, as well as his $1.6 million contract, off Gold Coast’s hands for just a future third-round pick.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

You are starting to sound like Trev, don't want to improve our list at the expense of saving money.

No that's not it at all .

My position is why should we cough up a 2nd rounder for a salary dump ?

Carlton couldn't be happier to get his salary off their books .

Obviously back ended and still owe him 500k+ a year .

Throw away pick at best if they don't like it keep him .

He won't tip the scales next year and won't be best 22 when we next content

 

[Chump Change]

No, i'm explaining to you that there's generally not a massive difference between players outside of a handful of stars each year. Most of the time there's a clear 25 or maybe 30 and then its a pool of 150 players for the next 50 odd picks and they are only picked up in the end because different recruiters rate different aspects.

Your whole schtick is an oxymoron that nobody actually knows how good a player will be- yet superstars can only come from the top 5 picked. I assume you also think Paddy Dow should be Carlton captain because he is the only mid with A+++ ability.

The point being made is that we never seem to maximise our picks outside of rare occurences. We can definitely pick up a defenstive style midfielder (Hutchins) or limited stoppage player (Trew) later on in the draft. If they bust so be it but we tend to spend our first & second rounders on the same exact limited players which no other recruiter in Australia rates

There's no oxymoron. I've posted many times as to what the percentages are with different bands of players. Plenty of duds in the top 10. I think between pick 6 and 10, 50% end up duds or dud-ish. I also know you can pick up A and A+ outside the top 5 or 10, but the success percentages are greatly reduced.

Without analysing it closely (to do so would take too many hours because you have to do every team), our drafting looks slightly under par.

But there's mitigating factors:

1. We traded out late 1st round/early second for TK. Also decent picks for Cripps, Yeo, Redden. That reduces our law of averages by a lot.

2. When we were in the flag window the team was settled. Part because it worked, part because Simmo's credits in the bank scheme. New players weren't getting much of a look in. It's easy for 2nd/3rd rounder etc to play in top 4 teams where the system gets executed by the players. Our young players didn't really get a look in.

3. Right now we are last. We are terrible. It's hard for 2nd/3rd rounders etc to come in and play good footy.

Have a look at the profile of Richmond and melbourne. Roughly 2x A+, 4-5x A, and the rest are 2nd/3rd/4th/RD players. Those later players are not going to play like that in a shit team.

We need to find the same profile. Roughly 2x A+, 4/5x A. Once you have that core, the other players step up.

The fact that we've had XON on the list for 5 years doesn't matter. He spent 3 years not getting a decent look in because Simmo thought we were in the hunt, he could have got on extended run last year but didn't. Now he's had an extended run this year. Best case scenario is we gave him an extended run last year, put a line through him, and delisted him last year. In the grand scheme of things, what difference is that going to make?

The fringe players mean nothing. We have to find elite players. Uncover some elite players and all of a sudden more of those 2nd/3rd rounder types can play footy.

 

[Chump Change]

You guys are chasing Fisher

I wouldn't have thought so. He's not very good and not someone we would need.

 

[ROYAL EAGLE]

Curtin looks safe as houses, but not KP height unless he grows and - well being in a footy depression he has no X factor. Just good.

Curtin at WA academy testing at start of season was 196cm measured at.

 

[Keys]

Rumour is that Curtin is the same height as McGovern

 

[timeforanother22]

Curtin at WA academy testing at start of season was 196cm measured at.

Thanks Yoda

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I wouldn't have thought so. He's not very good and not someone we would need.

Carlton happy to keep him and happy to let him go. We aren't the ones who have initiated talks over his departure.

lol, no he wasn't. He was on a backended contract, owed $800k per over the last two years of his contract.

Trade and contract rule tweaks to be considered by AFL after controversial deal

Trade and contract rule tweaks to be considered by AFL after controversial deal

www.foxsports.com.au

Geelong was the first club to exploit the newly-introduced salary dumping, taking pick No.7 and Jack Bowes, as well as his $1.6 million contract, off Gold Coast’s hands for just a future third-round pick.

Thanks for the correction, 800-850 a year still a huge salary compared to Fisher who's probably on 500 or so which is a bit above AFL average.

Either way Fisher isn't a bum player, he just isn't what we need atm. If he wants to go to WCE we don't be chucking in a pick with him, all the talk on our end is that its because WCE have offered him a better deal than we have and he's keen to go home + midfield opportunities.

The salary dump aspect of it is that we'll likely let him walk for peanuts and use the money elsewhere but we aren't chucking in a 2nd rounder with a player I'm sure we'd gladly keep if it came down to it.

 

[ROYAL EAGLE]

God we can do so much better than Fisher, Brockman is so much better option

 

[Mulldogg]

God we can do so much better than Fisher, Brockman is so much better option

Exactly; an undersized and one sided HFF/outside midfielder that can’t get a regular game at an almost perpetual basketcase like Carlton.

No thanks.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Carlton happy to keep him and happy to let him go. We aren't the ones who have initiated talks over his departure.

Thanks for the correction, 800-850 a year still a huge salary compared to Fisher who's probably on 500 or so which is a bit above AFL average.

Either way Fisher isn't a bum player, he just isn't what we need atm. If he wants to go to WCE we don't be chucking in a pick with him, all the talk on our end is that its because WCE have offered him a better deal than we have and he's keen to go home + midfield opportunities.

The salary dump aspect of it is that we'll likely let him walk for peanuts and use the money elsewhere but we aren't chucking in a 2nd rounder with a player I'm sure we'd gladly keep if it came down to it.

Word is you want to get rid of fisher so you have salary to throw at Gresham as a free agent .

 

[TerryFilk]

No it's not.

Drop out any academy or father son kids, because no one else is getting them.

1. Harley Reid
2. Colby McKercher
3. Dan Curtin
4. Nick Watson

5.Ryley Sanders
6. Connor O'Sullivan

The above 6 players, are the players who have performed consistently across the championships. The exception is Reid, who's been a bit in and out of games.

Duursma has been disappointing.

Nate Caddy has shown flashes, but has had a nearly championships.

Darcy Wilson has looked good, without wowing.

Ollie Murphey deserves to spoken about, and rated higher than where he's currently at.


North traded TWO pick 1's for pick 2, pick 3 and pick 17. They got ripped big time.

Yes, North got two very good kids at pick 2 and 3.

If I'm West Coast, and I'm trading pick 1, I want a top 4 pick and a second pick between 5 and 10 in this draft.

This draft isn’t very good, it’s why I don’t get why anyone would want to a split with say GWS

I think there’s a very big drop off after the first few guys. The fact Duursma and Caddy are highly rated tells you all you need to know about this crop when they are as flawed as they are

 

[briztoon]

Carlton happy to keep him and happy to let him go. We aren't the ones who have initiated talks over his departure.

Thanks for the correction, 800-850 a year still a huge salary compared to Fisher who's probably on 500 or so which is a bit above AFL average.

Either way Fisher isn't a bum player, he just isn't what we need atm. If he wants to go to WCE we don't be chucking in a pick with him, all the talk on our end is that its because WCE have offered him a better deal than we have and he's keen to go home + midfield opportunities.

The salary dump aspect of it is that we'll likely let him walk for peanuts and use the money elsewhere but we aren't chucking in a 2nd rounder with a player I'm sure we'd gladly keep if it came down to it.

I'd call b.s. on West Coast offering him a better contract than what he's currently on.

AFL average means nothing. AFL mean is the important starting point in such a discussion. And the AFL mean is just over $300k. If carlton are paying Fisher anything north of $300k, more fool them.

 

[Chump Change]

Carlton happy to keep him and happy to let him go. We aren't the ones who have initiated talks over his departure.

Thanks for the correction, 800-850 a year still a huge salary compared to Fisher who's probably on 500 or so which is a bit above AFL average.

Either way Fisher isn't a bum player, he just isn't what we need atm. If he wants to go to WCE we don't be chucking in a pick with him, all the talk on our end is that its because WCE have offered him a better deal than we have and he's keen to go home + midfield opportunities.

The salary dump aspect of it is that we'll likely let him walk for peanuts and use the money elsewhere but we aren't chucking in a 2nd rounder with a player I'm sure we'd gladly keep if it came down to it.

"Our end", as in a bunch of dudes on the BF Carlton board guessing and making shit up?

I don't actually know, but I wouldn't think we'd be targeting him. He's sort of zippy, but I don't see him regularly hitting targets lace out. He's pretty similar to Jermain Jones.

We need big body types who can play in the midfield. As it stands, TK, sheed, Jones, Petch. All outsider types. We don't need another.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I'd call b.s. on West Coast offering him a better contract than what he's currently on.

AFL average means nothing. AFL mean is the important stating point in such a discussion. And the AFL mean is just over $300k. If carlton are paying Fisher anything north of $300k, more fool them.

Just going off what we've been told by our ITK posters.

Fisher was playing good footy last year and would be a welcome addition to plenty of teams, he just doesn't have the tools we need in our team which is a more defined goal kicker or someone with better running capabilities. He's just a tidy outside player who has fallen out of favour.

Personally I wouldn't be chasing him if I were WCE and think he would be much better suited to Freo if he wants to go back to WA but if he goes he goes. Don't think the Blues will be putting up any great fight to keep him.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

"Our end", as in a bunch of dudes on the BF Carlton board guessing and making s**t up?

I don't actually know, but I wouldn't think we'd be targeting him. He's sort of zippy, but I don't see him regularly hitting targets lace out. He's pretty similar to Jermain Jones.

We need big body types who can play in the midfield. As it stands, TK, sheed, Jones, Petch. All outsider types. We don't need another.

We have our regular posters in one thread and a thread reserved only for posters with long histories of having inside information at the club. They've said thats what the situation is, can only go off that given they are correct about things 95% of the time.

Believe a few Journos have said the same thing.


EDIT* As for not hitting targets he was rated by CD as the best overall kick in the comp halfway through 2022. Obviously they have issues in terms of their ratings overall but out of all the critiques of his game his kicking is not one of them. Probably his best trait as an AFL footballer.

Best overall kicks​

(minimum 75 kicks)

1. Zac Fisher (CARL)

Total kicks: 89
Kick rating: +12.3%

2. Dayne Zorko (BRIS)

Total kicks: 157
Kick rating: +12.2%

3. Scott Pendlebury (COL)

Total kicks: 104
Kick rating: +11.9%

4. Patrick Lipinski (COL)

Total kicks: 87
Kick rating: +10.6%

 

[archiemoses]

We need 2 additional early first round picks and there are two viable ways of doing this.

1) Trade Barrass for Sydney's first pick, currently pick 4. May need to swap some stuff around to make it work.

2) Trade our 2024 future first rounder for a top 5 pick.

Then ask the AFL for a priority pick at pick 2

 

[archiemoses]

Carlton happy to keep him and happy to let him go. We aren't the ones who have initiated talks over his departure.

Thanks for the correction, 800-850 a year still a huge salary compared to Fisher who's probably on 500 or so which is a bit above AFL average.

Either way Fisher isn't a bum player, he just isn't what we need atm. If he wants to go to WCE we don't be chucking in a pick with him, all the talk on our end is that its because WCE have offered him a better deal than we have and he's keen to go home + midfield opportunities.

The salary dump aspect of it is that we'll likely let him walk for peanuts and use the money elsewhere but we aren't chucking in a 2nd rounder with a player I'm sure we'd gladly keep if it came down to it.

We've got petrucelle who is a better version of Fisher.

 

[Chump Change]

We have our regular posters in one thread and a thread reserved only for posters with long histories of having inside information at the club. They've said thats what the situation is, can only go off that given they are correct about things 95% of the time.

Believe a few Journos have said the same thing.


EDIT* As for not hitting targets he was rated by CD as the best overall kick in the comp halfway through 2022. Obviously they have issues in terms of their ratings overall but out of all the critiques of his game his kicking is not one of them. Probably his best trait as an AFL footballer.

Best overall kicks​

(minimum 75 kicks)

1. Zac Fisher (CARL)

Total kicks: 89
Kick rating: +12.3%

2. Dayne Zorko (BRIS)

Total kicks: 157
Kick rating: +12.2%

3. Scott Pendlebury (COL)

Total kicks: 104
Kick rating: +11.9%

4. Patrick Lipinski (COL)

Total kicks: 87
Kick rating: +10.6%

How's Pendles only getting 104 kicks in a season?

 

[Godfather32]

Carlton happy to keep him and happy to let him go. We aren't the ones who have initiated talks over his departure.

Thanks for the correction, 800-850 a year still a huge salary compared to Fisher who's probably on 500 or so which is a bit above AFL average.

Either way Fisher isn't a bum player, he just isn't what we need atm. If he wants to go to WCE we don't be chucking in a pick with him, all the talk on our end is that its because WCE have offered him a better deal than we have and he's keen to go home + midfield opportunities.

The salary dump aspect of it is that we'll likely let him walk for peanuts and use the money elsewhere but we aren't chucking in a 2nd rounder with a player I'm sure we'd gladly keep if it came down to it.

How soft are you campaigners over there? Every second post is no opposition supporters

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Just going off what we've been told by our ITK posters.

Fisher was playing good footy last year and would be a welcome addition to plenty of teams, he just doesn't have the tools we need in our team which is a more defined goal kicker or someone with better running capabilities. He's just a tidy outside player who has fallen out of favour.

Personally I wouldn't be chasing him if I were WCE and think he would be much better suited to Freo if he wants to go back to WA but if he goes he goes. Don't think the Blues will be putting up any great fight to keep him.

I don't think he is suited to any team at his salary .

That's a big chunk of cap for a guy who is playing VFL for a bottom team .

Freo couldn't even afford to offer acres more than 350k a year .

 

[eaglespremiers]

Photos I took from today's game between Vic Metro and Western Australia.

Spoiler

 

[bzparkes]

This bloke would be getting more clunge than A.Waterman, for sure.