List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Cuzz09]

well no one is 100% midfield anymore these days really

Can't say Reid is either

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[shooshka]

Am I right in saying one of:

Reid, McKercher, Curtin, Duursma

will be an Eagle in 2024?

All gonna be bloody good

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Assuming that we don’t trade the pick… yes.

Assuming results play out as expected, and assuming the tin rattlers get 1+2 then maybe we do trade back a little. If the Dees want the same player as the Hawks we could potentially move from 3 to 5 (or 3 to 4 if the Hawks want to play) for a fee.

That player would have to be Watson though. As you have stated we really want one of the other 4 at our pick (really only 2 after Nth - will be McKercher or Duursma).


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mattman93]

Well now that, possible North compo aside, our target will be Curtin, I'm gonna re-post this query for anyone equipped to answer (WCE_phil Eastern Rangers, seems like TerryFilk...? Dare I say BOND 007):

What on earth is it about Curtin? Everyone mentions versatility, but it seems like he's shown little as a forward and I very much doubt midfield is actually a viable option. At the same time, doesn't look like a true KPD -- athletically he plays smaller, moves with a low centre of gravity, doesn't have a particularly physical presence defensively or appear that adept in contested marking situations.

I can see the obvious strengths - footskills, in general a real sureness with ball in hand and accumulation. But I worry you're buying a neat, reliable tall utility. Seems especially odd when there looks to be plenty of viable KPD/intercept defender options later in the draft.

On balance , I struggle to see the case for preferring him to McKercher.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

What on earth is it about Curtin? Everyone mentions versatility, but it seems like he's shown little as a forward and I very much doubt midfield is actually a viable option. At the same time, doesn't look like a true KPD -- athletically he plays smaller, moves with a low centre of gravity, doesn't have a particularly physical presence defensively or appear that adept in contested marking situations.

I can see the obvious strengths - footskills, in general a real sureness with ball in hand and accumulation. But I worry you're buying a neat, reliable tall utility. Seems especially odd when there looks to be plenty of viable KPD/intercept defender options later in the draft.

On balance , I struggle to see the case for preferring him to McKercher.

In summary of whats been said to date:

Can play back, forward or midfield.
Best kick in the draft.
Can football (not just an athlete).
195cm tall.
Likened to Pavlich.

 

[ronpingwins]

In summary of whats been said to date:

Can play back, forward or midfield.
Best kick in the draft.
Can football (not just an athlete).
195cm tall.
Likened to Pavlich.

Curtin can't play forward really, he struggled there at Colts at the start of the year, lasted about 2 weeks.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Just watching last quarter of yesterdays game as went out yesterday and missed it. It’s such a shame we never had Shuey, Kelly, Yeo and Nic Nat in full flight together due to injury. Would have been dynamic.

 

[Keys]

I do look forward to all the talk of how West Coast should trade pick 1 for more picks because they need more talent in the doors to disappear now North have pick 1 and Harley Reid once again becomes the best thing since sliced bread.

Given North’s list composition, strong midfield developing with holes at both ends, splitting pick 1 makes more sense for them than it did for us. Especially if they get pick 2 for McKay and heaven forbid the ability to prelist Sanders

With McKay gone they have virtually no KPDs and desperately lack support for Larkey. Goldstein is also on his last legs so ruck support for Xerri would be handy

Picks 5,15 and a F1 from Melbourne to go with 2 and 17 that they already hold is quite the result

It also illustrates why they shouldn’t be given prelisting rights for Sanders under any circumstances. Giving them the rights to match before 40 would be a significant concession and the absolute maximum the AFL should be considering

I've taken my time before posting.

Watching the game yesterday is one of the worst feelings you can ever have, not sure if you want your team to win! I never want that again, tanking is just wrong and horrible. My only regret now, is we didn't stick it up the bombers and win that one too.

I am bitterly disappointed that we will miss out on Harley Reid, he would've been a lot of things for us. But we move on, the confidence the win gives young guys like Hewett, Maric, Longy, Chesser, J.Williams and you could probably throw in Edwards and Trew is huge.

Now the conversation switches to who next - the obvious candidates are Curtin and McKercher. I really really like both.

I think the club holds a flame for Curtin and it will more than likely be him, unless North end up with pick 1 and 2. In this scenario, for mine it has to be McKercher! I agree with Terry, to have a terrible season and end up Duursma would be a very hard pill to swallow.

Duursma's has truck loads of talent, but he can go missing in games too. He's type of guy that bobs up to rip a quarter apart and then go missing again. McKercher from start to finish is dominant, his speed and kicking rips teams apart. He's a goal kicking midfielder too, and is very good at releasing great hands before being caught.

Curtin, lots to love about him. He's not true KPD, but the loose defender that can go second up, and is your avenue out of defence. He can play one on one too.

My assessment, I'd be happy with either McKercher or Curtin. But if I had the pick, I'd take Curtin!

Reason why, looking over two years I think we'll definitely have a top 4 pick again next year and pointy end of that draft has some mids that look A-Grade: Smillie, Smith, Draper, O'Sullivan. So I think we go high end midfielder then.
Curtin and Bazzo down back for the next 12 plus years sets us up for a long time, Bazzo eventually puts on the size and takes best forward and Curtin is the loose defender that goes second man up and is our ball use out of the backline. He'd become a general down there, and he's got captaincy written all over him.

Outstanding post ECE

 

[TerryFilk]

Well now that, possible North compo aside, our target will be Curtin, I'm gonna re-post this query for anyone equipped to answer (WCE_phil Eastern Rangers, seems like TerryFilk...? Dare I say BOND 007):

What on earth is it about Curtin? Everyone mentions versatility, but it seems like he's shown little as a forward and I very much doubt midfield is actually a viable option. At the same time, doesn't look like a true KPD -- athletically he plays smaller, moves with a low centre of gravity, doesn't have a particularly physical presence defensively or appear that adept in contested marking situations.

I can see the obvious strengths - footskills, in general a real sureness with ball in hand and accumulation. But I worry you're buying a neat, reliable tall utility. Seems especially odd when there looks to be plenty of viable KPD/intercept defender options later in the draft.

On balance , I struggle to see the case for preferring him to McKercher.

I have said for a while that Curtin’s “versatility” and him being labelled “the next Matthew Pavlich” is hilarious.

He hasn’t shown he can be a good forward what so ever and whilst he had some nice stints in midfield at Colts level and in the Championships, I also don’t really see that translating at AFL level.

With that being said, I think he’s pretty much most teams dream CHB, he’s a very modern player, sublime foot skills for someone his size, he reads the play well and is just an all around smart player who often comes through when his team needs him.

I don’t think he’s a strong 1 on 1 defender, his profile is similar to someone like McGovern or Moore in my opinion, he can be the offensive engine for a team in many ways out of defence.

Overall, I like Curtin a lot but I don’t necessarily want him for us unless we get our hands on the Suns 1st and pick him with that selection.

 

[dkalphy]

norf are celebrating so hard and laughing at us, we are so naive. Well done boys great win

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

norf are celebrating so hard and laughing at us, we are so naive. Well done boys great win

Three straight spoons

**** yeah boys!!!

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

norf are celebrating so hard and laughing at us, we are so naive. Well done boys great win

The team you supposedly support won yesterday.

Sook harder, why don’t you.

 

[dkalphy]

The team you supposedly support won yesterday.

Sook harder, why don’t you.

i was supporting the doggies yesterday actually

 

[Jukes]

Duursma looks the perfect pick for what the Hawks need.

Any chance ROB predicted how the season would play out, played the long game and done the old bluff with the strong interest in Duursma so Hawks would want to trade up to pick 2…

 

[bzparkes]

Three straight spoons

* yeah boys!!!

+ a bottom 2 finish.

Yeah, not really sure Norf 'laughing' at us is the insult they think it is.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

i was supporting the doggies yesterday actually

Have you considered doing that full time?

 

[BOND 007]

BOND 007 what have we done. 2009 flashbacks?

Hey Mattman - thought about the best way to answer this. Either way I phrase it will not satisfy a section of the posters here.
First up - I like Reid - he's a talent. Yes I think he's number #1 and winning yesterday means he's unlikely to be there for WC's pick unless NM win this weekend (and that's certainly possible). Will we look back in 3 or 4 years time and say why - only time will tell. But what I do know is this.

1) Is Reid that far ahead of a couple of others that it's a train wreck - I don't believe so.
2) the pressure on the club has been sustained and enormous and is felt by everyone. It's human nature to start looking over our shoulders and second guessing themselves & so it's hard to do your job properly. Winning releases that pressure somewhat & you have can smile again which is such a relief. Look at the players reactions after the final siren incl Yeo who knew he was injured again & wasn't going to play last round for Shuey and Hurn.
3) continually losing has a bigger impact than destabilisation off field. It impacts the players greatly, their enjoyment of the game and the club. An unhappy workplace is not a great place to be. I know some have started to wonder whether WC is the right place to be & that is very unsettling. Ben McKay is likely exiting NM not for money (as he will be well paid wherever he ends up) but because he's sick of losing. A club cannot be successful and drag themselves out of the mire if players start to leave. GC has suffered a similar fate since their inception
4) we all know players want to win. But they're not stupid - they also know when coaches want to lose. After telling the players all year that you have confidence in them, that they have the ability to win any game, by 'tanking' you have effectively done a 180. Effectively you are saying "we need pick 1 because we need this player in our squad because you guys aren't good enough"
Not a great message.

It's a balancing act with no right or wrong.

 

[dkalphy]

Have you considered doing that full time?

have you considered minding your own business?

 

[Convocation]

I have said for a while that Curtin’s “versatility” and him being labelled “the next Matthew Pavlich” is hilarious.

He hasn’t shown he can be a good forward what so ever and whilst he had some nice stints in midfield at Colts level and in the Championships, I also don’t really see that translating at AFL level.

With that being said, I think he’s pretty much most teams dream CHB, he’s a very modern player, sublime foot skills for someone his size, he reads the play well and is just an all around smart player who often comes through when his team needs him.

I don’t think he’s a strong 1 on 1 defender, his profile is similar to someone like McGovern or Moore in my opinion, he can be the offensive engine for a team in many ways out of defence.

Overall, I like Curtin a lot but I don’t necessarily want him for us unless we get our hands on the Suns 1st and pick him with that selection.

Would James Sicily be a more "plays like" description of Curtain?

 

[JackOutback]

norf are celebrating so hard and laughing at us, we are so naive. Well done boys great win

If West Coast ever become a team whose fans celebrate losing, revel in coming last and think the teams winning are a joke, well, I'd be off that bandwagon quick smart. North have a loser's attitude, it's why they have 'won' three consecutive spoons and why we will win a flag before them, Harley Reid or no.

 

[BOND 007]

Inside the walls of a footy club little things can make big differences. Do people seriously think that players are that stupid that sending everyone off early for surgery and the likes of resting players etc. isn't noticed by the players. The players are mostly a bunch of similarly aged guys with similar interests who mostly get along pretty well. They get to know when a player can still play and when they need to finish their season.

Allen playing and leading from the front is inspirational. This is the difference. People talk about pulling strings and doing this, that and sending players off for surgery and resting key players etc. etc. The players know if the coaching team, selection panel and admin aren't doing everything in their power to win. Allen playing at that level whilst injured sets a standard, Bailey Williams under extreme duress for most of the season giving 100% sets a standard, McGovern going back with the flight of the ball and getting smashed sets a standard.

Things in a football club are never as good or as bad as they seem, but for a club going through a rebuild the biggest thing you need to instill in the team is belief that everyone has your back. Wins like today may not seem like much (they may even seem detrimental to some), but long term they have a big effect on players and the clubs they play for.

I personally don't believe you can purely draft your way to a premiership anymore without extreme levels of luck (or concessions) so for me dropping from pick 1 to pick 2 is nigh on meaningless. The talent that will be there around pick 25-50 is pretty much identical and about who rates whom. For WCE sake I just hope they draft the right player with their first round pick, the club im working for has a first round pick in the dread zone of this years draft where there's plenty of talent but lots of red flags attached to each player.

I love your message(s). It shows the differences between those who understand and those who don't & in all fairness it probably comes from a position of experience.

 

[Tugga27]

i was supporting the doggies yesterday actually

Makes sense now.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Watch us blow pick 34 or 39 on him when we should be getting him for 55

I presume you are still salty that we got screwed over at the negotiating table by Brisbane in 2013 when we blew pick 28 when all from the distance knew that we could of used 31 or perhaps pick 43!! Who knows whether we pick Karpany at 28 anyway. If we had of screwed them over and given up 43, no Tom Barrass!!!

We went back to the Lion's Den with Jack Redden and gave up pick 17 which seemed high but in hindsight, fair.

Our club is not Port and we have a track record of getting our targets. It is well known in the player agent market that we will deliver. That is a big bonus and I laugh when I read so many posters saying we always get screwed over. Aside from the Kelly trade, I think we have been fair and successful in our targets in the last decade.


Let's look at what you are moaning about:

Pick 34 is likely to be closer to pick 40 to 45 with the F/S and NGA selections.

However using face value of picks 34 and 39, here are who was drafted at those picks in the last 7 years.

2022 - Toby McMullins and Harvey Gallagher
2021 - Matthew Roberts and Blakes Howes
2020 - Fraser Rosman and Josh Eyre
2019 - Jack Mahony and Chad Warner
2018 - Kieren Briggs (bid match) and Jarrod Cameron (bid match)
2017 - Patrick Naish (FS match) Nathan Murphy
2016 - Declan Watson and Josh Battle

Only 4 players from this list are in their clubs best 22 - Battle, Murphy, Briggs and Warner have all made best 22, so a hit rate so far of 4 out of 14.

I will happily give up pick 39 for Robertson. It will be a good acquisition - a position and age of absolute need. We have no players who turn 22 this year still on our list and our only AFL quality inside mids and Yeo, Culley and Ginbey. Don't forget the Lions got him with pick 22. The traded up one spot to grab him and it cost them dearly - they gave up pick 23 (the next pick) and the Pies F2 while getting a GWS F4 back. What you paid is history but it will still have sentiment in the Lions Den.


Importantly, I suggest we have a good working relationship with the Lions. We paid a fair price for Yeo and I suspect the Lions knew they had a decent talent but I do not believe they thought they had a 2 x AA, a 2 x F&B and a premiership player in Yeo. They probably accept they stuffed up with List Management and offered him unders. That said, I expect the door to be open to discussions for Robertson.

 

[kane249]

Three straight spoons

* yeah boys!!!

Percentage off making it 4 straight spoons
2020

 

[TerryFilk]

Would James Sicily be a more "plays like" description of Curtain?

For sure, I think he’s somewhere between Moore / Sicily, he’s comfortably smaller than Moore, but comfortably taller than Sicily, his IQ appears to be on par with both of those guys, they are all exceptional at reading the play and are capable of being offensive engines for their teams.

You can honestly compare Curtin to most of the gun CHB types in todays game, which I guess is a positive sign.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Percentage off making it 4 straight spoons
2020
View attachment 1781035

Laughing their heads off at us.