Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXV - 'Loopy' Season has begun

[The Bighouse]

SOS was having a nibble at Marchbank before re-signing.

 

[Soapy V]

Dow deal with Saints was done weeks ago. Swans asked for chat but when they found out cancelled it.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

SOS was having a nibble at Marchbank before re-signing.

Love SOS but he can eat a dick and leave our players alone

 

[Robertio]

SOS was having a nibble at Marchbank before re-signing.

Jed Lamb has a chance of getting back into the big time.

 

[El Topo]

Liam Sumner

Liam Sumner

Age

31

Ht

178cm

Wt

74kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.8

2star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

2.2

2star

T

2.4

4star

G

0.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

11.6

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

0.8

4star

lacing up the boots...

 

[DangerousD]

Thomas Bugg the phantom player, SOS could get him on the cheap

 

[Lace_Out]

SOS playing hard ball over Paddy Dow

15

Paddy Dow

Age

25

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

7.1

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.6

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.4

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

is the most SOS list management decision he has ever made.

We should play hardball, we know he rates him

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

 

[bluesDeluxe]

Using next year's first to get to the pointy end this year is good business.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Some feedback from last night. Have a couple of targets for trade but not what I would call big names. More about needs

Focus is on trying to get 2-3 "Good"picks in the draft via upgrades. Add a couple of young very talented kids would be awesome

List is mainly settled and we are in a great space List Balance and Salary Cap wise. We are now in a position where we should be in contention for many years to come

Many club ínsiders believe our List still has a lot of improvement to come

Thanks Soap.

Regarding the needs trades is there any word on whether we are looking for a backup key forward? We really have nobody on our list besides the developing Lemmey if our main guys get injured. To me it is a glaring gap in our list so find it interesting we haven't addressed over the last few preseasons.

 

[JustaBattler]

What is wrong with you people !

I don't wish either good luck or best wishes - hope they absolutely fail miserably - same as I hope for every other player in every other opposition team.

 

[marcmurphy3]

I wouldn't be surprised if we are exploring both options in terms of upgrading our current 1st or splitting it for several 2nd rounders.

I still feel the 1st option is pretty unlikely. You have to massively overpay to get up the draft order and our future 1st won't be rated very highly given where we are projected to finish. Just look at what the dogs are apparently offering for pick 4 (Pick 10, 17, future 1st). Also, the dogs apparently want Nick Watson with that pick who is the player we reportedly want if we move up the order.

 

[kreuze_missile]

SOS playing hard ball over Paddy Dow is the most SOS list management decision he has ever made.

Good old Silvagni.

Loves to give his failed first rounders a second crack.

 

[Soapy V]

Thanks Soap.

Regarding the needs trades is there any word on whether we are looking for a backup key forward? We really have nobody on our list besides the developing Lemmey if our main guys get injured. To me it is a glaring gap in our list so find it interesting we haven't addressed over the last few preseasons.

Wasn't mentioned

My assumption is we need another KPF and some more run and good skills but that's MY assessment. I would love a genuine X factor forward like Cameron or Pickett but hard to find

 

[HaydossJ]

The Wizard

 

[Robertio]

What is wrong with you people !

I don't wish either good luck or best wishes - hope they absolutely fail miserably - same as I hope for every other player in every other opposition team.

 

[marcmurphy3]

It's funny that SOS thinks picks for Coffield will unlock the Henry trade yet wants to give nothing for Dow. I would think Coffield is closer in value to Dow then Henry.

 

[Blue and Silver]

The Wizard

I keep wondering if this is our plan.

Watson feels like the sort of player to really accentuate our dangerous players in the forward 50

On Pixel 7 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Stamos]

Dow deal with Saints was done weeks ago. Swans asked for chat but when they found out cancelled it.

By done do you mean Dow choosing Saints, or trade worked out between the clubs?

 

[Stamos]

I wouldn't be surprised if we are exploring both options in terms of upgrading our current 1st or splitting it for several 2nd rounders.

I still feel the 1st option is pretty unlikely. You have to massively overpay to get up the draft order and our future 1st won't be rated very highly given where we are projected to finish. Just look at what the dogs are apparently offering for pick 4 (Pick 10, 17, future 1st). Also, the dogs apparently want Nick Watson with that pick who is the player we reportedly want if we move up the order.

Under the deal which is likely to be completed today, the Dogs would give up picks 10 and 17 in this year’s draft and their future first round pick to the Suns.

In exchange Gold Coast would trade pick four plus two third-round selections this year and a third round next year.

As it happened: Dockers forward requests trade to Pies, Duursma requests trade to Dons on day one of trade period

The AFL’s silly season gets under way today. Which players will be on the move? Follow along to keep up to date with all the news and analysis.

www.theage.com.au

 

[macky99]

I wouldn't be surprised if we are exploring both options in terms of upgrading our current 1st or splitting it for several 2nd rounders.

I still feel the 1st option is pretty unlikely. You have to massively overpay to get up the draft order and our future 1st won't be rated very highly given where we are projected to finish. Just look at what the dogs are apparently offering for pick 4 (Pick 10, 17, future 1st). Also, the dogs apparently want Nick Watson with that pick who is the player we reportedly want if we move up the order.

The quality in this draft is very much below our 1st pick at 16 as it stands, seems a sensible decision to trade up for better quality, particularly if we are getting the Campo brothers next year.

More likely our F1st & trying to swap picks with North would seem to make sense.

 

[ferrisb]

I don't see why this is still such a discussion.

It appears Dow is not rated by the Carlton coaches and is WAY down the pecking order.

It is a waste of his time and ours to keep him on the list if we are only going to play him as a last resort.

The discussion is based on views that see Dow as a better option than Hewett /Docherty/Kennedy as midfield on ball rotations. Also Dow is younger than any of these players and therefore has time to improve further - a perception that given arguments made regarding his current level of performance already surpassing those three - basically the Club is throwing a very good player with points of difference away - for nothing.

The view sort of segues into another view expressed on here and that is that the midfield in particular lacks leg speed which as the argument goes, is the main reason Carlton can't run with faster teams who have embraced leg speed as the #1 input into transitional play effectiveness.

The argument is expanded by suggesting that the coaching and selection process could easily accommodate Dow even keeping all of Cripps/Walsh/Cerra and two of Hewett/Docherty/Kennedy in the line up by shifting Walsh to a wing rotation - because Walsh is an endurance runner and can replace Hollands or Cottrell - so Carlton doesn't lose any outside run and or if not that Docherty should be played as a defender where he has AA credentials - and is arguably a better option than Cincotta/Newman or Boyd or Marchbank.

More extreme arguments point to games given to players in the forward mix that haven't performed as well as Dow as pointing to a lack of Dow awareness in the MC.

Opposing views point to certain deficiencies in DOw's defensive capabilities and lack of two way running - suggesting that in fact Dow doesn't really improve the run of the midfield given players are expected to run both ways and that if Dow was a potential high impact player lie a Degooey or Dangerfield he would have shown this predisposition and capability by now- opposing this is teh argument that Dow has not been given much opportunity to demonstrate his forward craft ability.

So depending on one's view on the Carlton midfield as favoured by the coaches and or one's view on how Carlton needs to be restructured to play like Collingwood plays or one's view on Dow V other on ball alternatives or one's view on where players are best fit into the team for offer all balance- Dow seems to be the missing link in the coach and MC thinking - or surplus to needs.

I would summarise the Dow debate on here as a talisman for Voss and his coaching /game plan and player selection ability.

No Dow means Voss is never going to achieve the ultimate success because it speaks not only to No Dow but also his inability to understand how games are won these days against better teams with one poster in particular referencing 'the modern game' - where teams invest primarily in fast runners able to go back and forth and run through and around opposition who all have slower players.

Debates like this will never end until a coach wins a flag playing with a game style that he has built a team around- and will be ongoing whenever one team who does win a flag and plays with a different game style ( and by game style I mean a different set of player types and capabilities at their disposal).

Thanks for the detailed response JaB. I see valid arguments from both sides.

I am pretty sympathetic to keeping Dow given he offers a point of difference and has improved his game significantly in the last 12-24 months. BUT keeping him is only worth it if the coaches were willing to play him (subject to form). Which I don't think they are.

Given where Dow is in the pecking order and his request to be traded, Dow vs Kennedy vs Hewett discussions (and related midfield, gameplan, list mgmt chat) are about as practical as debate about whether we should have kept Ratten as coach in 2012. Is it valid, interesting discussion? For sure! Is it any more than a hypothetical, alternate universe thinking exercise? I don't think so.

 

[Opium]

As it happened: Dockers forward requests trade to Pies, Duursma requests trade to Dons on day one of trade period

The AFL’s silly season gets under way today. Which players will be on the move? Follow along to keep up to date with all the news and analysis.

www.theage.com.au

Crazy. Three first round picks for pick 4.

 

[Stamos]

Crazy. Three first round picks for pick 4.

It's worth what somebody will pay for it.
Dogs have a F/S so it skews the market, and they get 3 x 3rd rounders back.

 

[JustaBattler]

Thanks for the detailed response JaB. I see valid arguments from both sides.

I am pretty sympathetic to keeping Dow given he offers a point of difference and has improved his game significantly in the last 12-24 months. BUT keeping him is only worth it if the coaches were willing to play him (subject to form). Which I don't think they are.

Given where Dow is in the pecking order and his request to be traded, Dow vs Kennedy vs Hewett discussions (and related midfield, gameplan, list mgmt chat) are about as practical as debate about whether we should have kept Ratten as coach in 2012. Is it valid, interesting discussion? For sure! Is it any more than a hypothetical, alternate universe thinking exercise? I don't think so.

NP Feral Ferrisb

I agree with what you say but I thought I'd summarise the whole to and fro as I had a few minutes to spare on a slow day - from an impartial perspective.

My view on Dow is that he achieved a satisfactory level of depth capability at Carlton which isnt a knock on him (imo) it is what it is and he takes his positives to St Kilda with him. If it is true that the difference between their offer to him and Carlton's was more years - then it makes sense from Dow's POV to take an extended contract- Carlton has stopped giving out long contracts to players these days- as we can see from one year extensions given to Cuningham/Marchbank/Durdin et al - Paddy (imo) is the same caliber player as these blokes ( for different reasons) and the Club seems to be consistent in its approach to similarly gifted players.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I would love a genuine X factor forward like Cameron or Pickett but hard to find