Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXV - 'Loopy' Season has begun

[Foucault1989]

Dow probably would have stayed if offered longer term deal but feels he is not rated. SOS has made it clear for a while they want him. I have no idea the money as I never ask and I have never heard a player discuss it. He has some great mates at club especially Walsh who he’s in Japan with. I want him to stay but it’s NOT happening. He’s gone and it was decided weeks ago. The deal with Saints is done it’s just about how

As I have said before SOS keeps in close contact with players he drafted and rates Dow highly still.

I don’t know what it will take to get it done but it won’t be much and I don’t see any hassles. A few Blues people wanted a pick swap to go slightly higher in draft but nothing confirmed

My source for this couldn’t be more impeccable

I don't know why we just don't offer him 3 years on average salary....handy player to have on the list and eventually he will get a regular game. I can see Kennedy slowing down (further), Cripps won't be around forever and Docherty getting on, likely returning to defence in the coming years. Dow is still young enough to have a great career at Carlton

 

[BIuebagger]

SOS is having a laugh if he thinks 51 gets Henry done.

 

[Lukeblueboy]

I don't know why we just don't offer him 3 years on average salary....handy player to have on the list and eventually he will get a regular game. I can see Kennedy slowing down (further), Cripps won't be around forever and Docherty getting on, likely returning to defence in the coming years. Dow is still young enough to have a great career at Carlton

100% this!
Imo I feel like we should be building a midfield with Dow in it. Cripps/Walsh/chez/Dow and only one of Kennedy/Hewitt type

 

[jackn]

I don't know why we just don't offer him 3 years on average salary....handy player to have on the list and eventually he will get a regular game. I can see Kennedy slowing down (further), Cripps won't be around forever and Docherty getting on, likely returning to defence in the coming years. Dow is still young enough to have a great career at Carlton

Because we don't have enough list spots. Like it or not (I don't), the club have shown they prefer Kennedy AND Hewett in the team to dow. With that in mind, it's hard to offer 3 years for a guy they rank so low. It's hard trimming the list back this year, but it's going to be even harder next (hopefully).

 

[Foucault1989]

Because we don't have enough list spots. Like it or not (I don't), the club have shown they prefer Kennedy AND Hewett in the team to dow. With that in mind, it's hard to offer 3 years for a guy they rank so low. It's hard trimming the list back this year, but it's going to be even harder next (hopefully).

I'm not so sure about that. Next year we have a host of players out of contract as well. We signed a bunch of players to 2 year contracts last year.

If we need list spots, Dow isn't the one to move for me unless of course he wants to go.

And I personally think he could go past Kennedy next year, and I'm s big Kennedy fan.

 

[Soapy V]

Pick 51 would be insanely cheap for Henry. Worth way more than that

I would use our First pick on him with maybe a pick back. I think he is a gun and what we need and only just turned 22

 

[ferrisb]

I don't see why this is still such a discussion.

It appears Dow is not rated by the Carlton coaches and is WAY down the pecking order.

It is a waste of his time and ours to keep him on the list if we are only going to play him as a last resort.

 

[Benaly28]

3-5 years ago Dow and Fish would be regular starting 18 now we’re trading them as surplus we’ve come a long way and starting to become a proper football CLUB not just team.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[bmaurizio]

Dow is not rated by Voss, coach has the ultimate determination.
Vossy needed time to review & assess playing group, I’m certain there’ll more unpopular delisting trading next year too. It’s done gradually.
We need to bring in some exciting talent ASAP, the competition is aggressive, we’ve got to get a move on.
Hope we do a little better trading this year, E Hollands is not inspirational so far, I’ve got the fingers crossed the cost in a low pick F3 no more.

 

[Red Bull]

I don't see why this is still such a discussion.

It appears Dow is not rated by the Carlton coaches and is WAY down the pecking order.

It is a waste of his time and ours to keep him on the list if we are only going to play him as a last resort.

 

[HarryFlashman]

I don't see why this is still such a discussion.

It appears Dow is not rated by the Carlton coaches and is WAY down the pecking order.

It is a waste of his time and ours to keep him on the list if we are only going to play him as a last resort.

Harsh but very fair.
That’s the situation in a nutshell.
Personally, I think it’s a mistake.

 

[carlton_99]

I would use our First pick on him with maybe a pick back. I think he is a gun and what we need and only just turned 22

Agree - he is going to be a star. Worth at a minimum a pick in the low 20s

 

[Blue and Blue]

Pains me to say that as much as I hoped and willed Paddy on from that very first game when he looked to have something extra.
I think in retrospect that was only in comparison to so many draftees we went through that didn't.

Now, if I was the coach looking at winning a flag and the list we have now and building a squad of mongrels. He wouldn't be in the side. He was handy when we had a lot of injuries this year and handy in the two's but handy isn't enough.
It's a cut throat nasty business.
Can't see him making it anywhere else if honest also.

 

[JustaBattler]

I don't see why this is still such a discussion.

It appears Dow is not rated by the Carlton coaches and is WAY down the pecking order.

It is a waste of his time and ours to keep him on the list if we are going to play him as a last resort only.

The discussion is based on views that see Dow as a better option than Hewett /Docherty/Kennedy as midfield on ball rotations. Also Dow is younger than any of these players and therefore has time to improve further - a perception that given arguments made regarding his current level of performance already surpassing those three - basically the Club is throwing a very good player with points of difference away - for nothing.

The view sort of segues into another view expressed on here and that is that the midfield in particular lacks leg speed which as the argument goes, is the main reason Carlton can't run with faster teams who have embraced leg speed as the #1 input into transitional play effectiveness.

The argument is expanded by suggesting that the coaching and selection process could easily accommodate Dow even keeping all of Cripps/Walsh/Cerra and two of Hewett/Docherty/Kennedy in the line up by shifting Walsh to a wing rotation - because Walsh is an endurance runner and can replace Hollands or Cottrell - so Carlton doesn't lose any outside run and or if not that Docherty should be played as a defender where he has AA credentials - and is arguably a better option than Cincotta/Newman or Boyd or Marchbank.

More extreme arguments point to games given to players in the forward mix that haven't performed as well as Dow as pointing to a lack of Dow awareness in the MC.

Opposing views point to certain deficiencies in DOw's defensive capabilities and lack of two way running - suggesting that in fact Dow doesn't really improve the run of the midfield given players are expected to run both ways and that if Dow was a potential high impact player lie a Degooey or Dangerfield he would have shown this predisposition and capability by now- opposing this is teh argument that Dow has not been given much opportunity to demonstrate his forward craft ability.

So depending on one's view on the Carlton midfield as favoured by the coaches and or one's view on how Carlton needs to be restructured to play like Collingwood plays or one's view on Dow V other on ball alternatives or one's view on where players are best fit into the team for offer all balance- Dow seems to be the missing link in the coach and MC thinking - or surplus to needs.

I would summarise the Dow debate on here as a talisman for Voss and his coaching /game plan and player selection ability.

No Dow means Voss is never going to achieve the ultimate success because it speaks not only to No Dow but also his inability to understand how games are won these days against better teams with one poster in particular referencing 'the modern game' - where teams invest primarily in fast runners able to go back and forth and run through and around opposition who all have slower players.

Debates like this will never end until a coach wins a flag playing with a game style that he has built a team around- and will be ongoing whenever one team who does win a flag and plays with a different game style ( and by game style I mean a different set of player types and capabilities at their disposal).

 

[HarryFlashman]

The discussion is based on views that see Dow as a better option than Hewett /Docherty/Kennedy as midfield on ball rotations. Also Dow is younger than any of these players and therefore has time to improve further - a perception that given arguments made regarding his current level of performance already surpassing those three - basically the Club is throwing a very good player with points of difference away - for nothing.

The view sort of segues into another view expressed on here and that is that the midfield in particular lacks leg speed which as the argument goes, is the main reason Carlton can't run with faster teams who have embraced leg speed as the #1 input into transitional play effectiveness.

The argument is expanded by suggesting that the coaching and selection process could easily accommodate Dow even keeping all of Cripps/Walsh/Cerra and two of Hewett/Docherty/Kennedy in the line up by shifting Walsh to a wing rotation - because Walsh is an endurance runner and can replace Hollands or Cottrell - so Carlton doesn't lose any outside run and or if not that Docherty should be played as a defender where he has AA credentials - and is arguably a better option than Cincotta/Newman or Boyd or Marchbank.

More extreme arguments point to games given to players in the forward mix that haven't performed as well as Dow as pointing to a lack of Dow awareness in the MC.

Opposing views point to certain deficiencies in DOw's defensive capabilities and lack of two way running - suggesting that in fact Dow doesn't really improve the run of the midfield given players are expected to run both ways and that if Dow was a potential high impact player lie a Degooey or Dangerfield he would have shown this predisposition and capability by now- opposing this is teh argument that Dow has not been given much opportunity to demonstrate his forward craft ability.

So depending on one's view on the Carlton midfield as favoured by the coaches and or one's view on how Carlton needs to be restructured to play like Collingwood plays or one's view on Dow V other on ball alternatives or one's view on where players are best fit into the team for offer all balance- Dow seems to be the missing link in the coach and MC thinking - or surplus to needs.

I would summarise the Dow debate on here as a talisman for Voss and his coaching /game plan and player selection ability.

No Dow means Voss is never going to achieve the ultimate success because it speaks not only to No Dow but also his inability to understand how games are won these days against better teams with one poster in particular referencing 'the modern game' - where teams invest primarily in fast runners able to go back and forth and run through and around opposition who all have slower players.

Debates like this will never end until a coach wins a flag playing with a game style that he has built a team around- and will be ongoing whenever one team who does win a flag and plays with a different game style ( and by game style I mean a different set of player types and capabilities at their disposal).

That’s a pretty good assessment of the argument a touch heavy on the “ultimate success”, a slight amendment to add in it raises “questions/concerns” & that’s about a good an assessment of the argument I’ve seen - nice work JAB

 

[thylacine60]

Opposing views point to certain deficiencies in DOw's defensive capabilities and lack of two way running - suggesting that in fact Dow doesn't really improve the run of the midfield given players are expected to run both ways and that if Dow was a potential high impact player lie a Degooey or Dangerfield he would have shown this predisposition and capability by now- opposing this is teh argument that Dow has not been given much opportunity to demonstrate his forward craft ability.

outstanding post - just imagine my disappointment then, when I saw the bolded - that single missed space - it taints everything else for me

 

[JustaBattler]

outstanding post - just imagine my disappointment then, when I saw the bolded - that single missed space - it taints everything else for me

I'm pleading the "cat's bow" defense...

 

[Kramer1]

Really feel for Paddy in all of this.

Three coaches with seemingly different plans for him. Hewett and Cerra brought in over the top of him, and has played out the last two years with papers seemingly stamped.

Has carried himself well, hope he gets some continuity in his footy.

 

[BIuebagger]

Beveridge officially reporting that Dow has nominated the Saints.


Paddy's pick: Wantaway Blue nominates club of choice

 

[thylacine60]

something unholy doing that on a sunday, saints or no saints............

 

[Neese]

Says we are not going to delist him but want to trade.
I feel bad for him and yeah I get it's tough but it must be shit to have done everything right and not be valued.

 

[Aphrodite]

Beveridge officially reporting that Dow has nominated the Saints.


Paddy's pick: Wantaway Blue nominates club of choice

‘Wantaway Blue’

 

[thylacine60]

‘Wantastay Blue’

 

[RPCB]

‘Wantaway Blue’

Imagine printing the word “wantaway” about a player going from a Preliminary Finalist to St Kilda.

 

[bigblueboy]

Says we are not going to delist him but want to trade.
I feel bad for him and yeah I get it's tough but it must be s**t to have done everything right and not be valued.

But this is the key point - he hasn’t done everything right. He hasn’t solidified a position in our best 22, is not strong defensively and doesn’t have a second position.
Unfortunately - IMO - he is unlikely to resolve those last two issues.