Rumour GFC 2024 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt 1

[Footy Smarts]

I agree...but I suspect if both said they want in then we will do what we can to make both trades work

Not sure about that. I suspect like with Ollie Henry we won't be comfortable trading a future first that could end up a high pick and I don't see how either are gettable for less than a first.

We also have potentially a large hole at key forward we will need to fill if Neale doesn't come on in a big way. So I think we'll want to save some salary cap space and trade capital for a future big name recruit up forward rather than spend it all on midfielders.

I'd go for Perkins and leave Smith.

 

[Lana]

I like and respect that attitude more than the player who after one year cracks the sads, demanding a trade home otherwise they'll sit out the next season

He may well decide after his first contract that Perth isn't the place for him, but respect for sticking it out IF that's how things play out

These are people, not slaves, if they want to leave and someone is able to facilitate it so be it. I'd get rid of the draft and find a different avenue to equalisation. If a club can't convince a player to stay then it is the clubs problem.

 

[D BRIDGE]

Let's just say the Smith & Perkins stuff is legit, but in all likelihood we can only get one.

Little poll, who does the Geelong BigFooty board prefer? I'm taking Perkins personally.

Clearly Smth has been a better player from the get-go but Perkins is starting to come into his our in his 4th year (like Bruhn/Henry/Holmes).

I reckon we'd get more games out of Perkins because he has been in the system 2 years less than Smith and is 18 months younger than him... Perkins 65 games... Smith already 103.

It a hard call to take the player who has not been as good but I'd go Perkins.

Smith doesn't need to reply on his AFL career to get by... He might be the kind who pulls the pins early and if you add in the knee and drug issue... well yeah I think the safe bet is Perkins.

He has his entire career infront of him now.

Smith get back to his best and have a super long career going forward... but it comes woth more risk and not a crazy amount more upside compared to AP imo.

 

[Turbocat]

Not sure about that. I suspect like with Ollie Henry we won't be comfortable trading a future first that could end up a high pick and I don't see how either are gettable for less than a first.

We also have potentially a large hole at key forward we will need to fill if Neale doesn't come on in a big way. So I think we'll want to save some salary cap space and trade capital for a future big name recruit up forward rather than spend it all on midfielders.

I'd go for Perkins and leave Smith.

I feel...If Perkins or player like Perkins says he wants in we would be very interested. Add another player from the 2020 ..yes please.

However if Smith picks us ... I really cant see us saying no either.

Im not sure if we could make it happen...or how but if it was something like ...Perkins was gettable with our Fr1 plus our R2 , Smith our R1 ... then id guess that we do it. Our list profile is changing and the addition of those two players would almost give the club a high level of confidence that the likelihood of a fall is less likely.

Adding 24 yo BSmith and a 22yo Perkins to Bruhn , Clark, Henry , Demspey , Conway etc... might be worth the draft drain in their eyes.

 

[Turbocat]

These are people, not slaves, if they want to leave and someone is able to facilitate it so be it. I'd get rid of the draft and find a different avenue to equalisation. If a club can't convince a player to stay then it is the clubs problem.

The concept of the draft and sal cap seem so anti capitalistic...its hard to believe it comes from USA.

There must be alternatives to the draft that still ensure an equal distribution of talent.

 

[iameviljez]

These are people, not slaves, if they want to leave and someone is able to facilitate it so be it. I'd get rid of the draft and find a different avenue to equalisation. If a club can't convince a player to stay then it is the clubs problem.

Fair, but then almost nobody would join the northern clubs, or the bottom clubs.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Who wants to shoot me down on this?

The year is 2025 and Jeremy Cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

31

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

is out of contract and 33 the next year. Shannon Neale has played most of 24/25 with some success and some frustrating moments but his presence sharpens up our attack and brings our smaller medium types in.

While we offer up a one year contract for Jez we also decide to make an RFA offer to a key forward out of contract at a team with no discernible midfield and only a couple of defenders. A young country lad who followed the cats as a kid and perhaps doesn't want to be part of a forever rebuild.

What do we think of putting some early text messages into young Darcy Fogarty

32

Darcy Fogarty

Age

25

Ht

194cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.5

2star

K

5.7

2star

HB

2.8

2star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.7

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

2.3

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.3

3star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.4

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

1.0

4star

?

 

[Baudolino]

These are people, not slaves, if they want to leave and someone is able to facilitate it so be it. I'd get rid of the draft and find a different avenue to equalisation. If a club can't convince a player to stay then it is the clubs problem.

You'd get rid of the best equalisation mechanism in professional sport? Seems like a genius way to ruin competitive balance.

 

[Lana]

The concept of the draft and sal cap seem so anti capitalistic...its hard to believe it comes from USA.

There must be alternatives to the draft that still ensure an equal distribution of talent.

Fair, but then almost nobody would join the northern clubs, or the bottom clubs.

I'd have an uneven salary cap + smaller protected list sizes making it harder for clubs to stockpile talent.

Something like

Cap and list spots is broken into two parts

Protected
Unprotected

For all clubs the protected cap is fixed.
The unprotected cap is inversely proportional to finishing position.

Protected funds can only be used on players currently on a club's list.

Clubs can only recruit new players using funds under the unprotected cap. Both from the U18s/VFL and from other clubs

Players under the unprotected cap are free agents in every offseason regardless of contract status, however prior to the player movement period clubs have the option to convert a contracted unprotected player to a protected if they have cap space and list space to fit the contract under the protected cap. But clubs can only transfer players from protected to unprotected once they fall out of contract. Clubs can trade protected players to other clubs by mutual agreement with all parties, they become unprotected upon arrival.

This would free up player movement and make it harder for teams to keep their squads together. Players would chase opportunity and money. Top teams would have little money available to hold on to their depth while also recruit the top end young talent. While poorer teams would money available to have both.

 

[standupand]

Who wants to shoot me down on this?

The year is 2025 and Jeremy Cameron is out of contract and 33 the next year. Shannon Neale has played most of 24/25 with some success and some frustrating moments but his presence sharpens up our attack and brings our smaller medium types in.

While we offer up a one year contract for Jez we also decide to make an RFA offer to a key forward out of contract at a team with no discernible midfield and only a couple of defenders. A young country lad who followed the cats as a kid and perhaps doesn't want to be part of a forever rebuild.

What do we think of putting some early text messages into young Darcy Fogarty?

Yeah yeah, I'm on board. The Smith and Perkins stuff doesn't get me excited at all, admittedly I don't know who Perkins is. But Fogarty, yeah. What are the chances we can go wrong with two Fogartys?

 

[Lana]

You'd get rid of the best equalisation mechanism in professional sport? Seems like a genius way to ruin competitive balance.

It is already dying, between the academies and players having increased willingness to back their worth at a younger age. Teams that get to "cheat" the system of a truly fair draft is a strong predictor of success.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Yeah yeah, I'm on board. The Smith and Perkins stuff doesn't get me excited at all, admittedly I don't know who Perkins is. But Fogarty, yeah. What are the chances we can go wrong with two Fogartys?

I'm excited by setting up the midfield because that's the problem we have to solve now. It's the problem right in front of us and if that problem drags to 2025 we'll have two problems to solve.

If you can have one deficiency and still be a good team but you can't have two. That's why the time is now to trade our first for a capable mid with a bit of stoppage power while retaining the future picks to bring in a frustrated kpf for 2026.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I'd have an uneven salary cap + smaller protected list sizes making it harder for clubs to stockpile talent.

Something like

Cap and list spots is broken into two parts

Protected
Unprotected

For all clubs the protected cap is fixed.
The unprotected cap is inversely proportional to finishing position.

Protected funds can only be used on players currently on a club's list.

Clubs can only recruit new players using funds under the unprotected cap. Both from the U18s/VFL and from other clubs

Players under the unprotected cap are free agents in every offseason regardless of contract status, however prior to the player movement period clubs have the option to convert a contracted unprotected player to a protected if they have cap space and list space to fit the contract under the protected cap. But clubs can only transfer players from protected to unprotected once they fall out of contract. Clubs can trade protected players to other clubs by mutual agreement with all parties, they become unprotected upon arrival.

This would free up player movement and make it harder for teams to keep their squads together. Players would chase opportunity and money. Top teams would have little money available to hold on to their depth while also recruit the top end young talent. While poorer teams would money available to have both.

This sounds like an interesting idea. Depending on how it plays out you basically bar successful clubs from offering big contracts to trade ins.

 

[Baudolino]

It is already dying, between the academies and players having increased willingness to back their worth at a younger age. Teams that get to "cheat" the system of a truly fair draft is a strong predictor of success.

The fact that players arrive at and leave clubs for reasons besides the draft does not mean the draft is "dying" and nor does it mean that draft is an ineffective mechanism of equalisation.

 

[iameviljez]

It is already dying, between the academies and players having increased willingness to back their worth at a younger age. Teams that get to "cheat" the system of a truly fair draft is a strong predictor of success.

No it’s not.

Most players still arrive via the draft, regular picks.

 

[Baudolino]

I'd have an uneven salary cap + smaller protected list sizes making it harder for clubs to stockpile talent.

Something like

Cap and list spots is broken into two parts

Protected
Unprotected

For all clubs the protected cap is fixed.
The unprotected cap is inversely proportional to finishing position.

Protected funds can only be used on players currently on a club's list.

Clubs can only recruit new players using funds under the unprotected cap. Both from the U18s/VFL and from other clubs

Players under the unprotected cap are free agents in every offseason regardless of contract status, however prior to the player movement period clubs have the option to convert a contracted unprotected player to a protected if they have cap space and list space to fit the contract under the protected cap. But clubs can only transfer players from protected to unprotected once they fall out of contract. Clubs can trade protected players to other clubs by mutual agreement with all parties, they become unprotected upon arrival.

This would free up player movement and make it harder for teams to keep their squads together. Players would chase opportunity and money. Top teams would have little money available to hold on to their depth while also recruit the top end young talent. While poorer teams would money available to have both.

Why is any of this necessary? The AFL has the most successful equalisation system in world sport. Since the year 2000 we've had 11 different clubs in a competition of 16-18 teams win the flag, which is an extraordinary spread of teams in a short time span when you compare to other sporting leagues, and a further 4 teams have made Grand Finals. The only teams not to have played in a GF since 2000 are North (who won a flag the year before that), Carlton (who won a flag only 5 years before that, and an expansion club in Gold Coast.

What youre proposing is the literal definition of fixing something that isn't broken.

 

[standupand]

No it’s not.

Most players still arrive via the draft, regular picks.

I think the point is that the draft is not what actually achieves equalisation in the system because good young players don't necessary repay their worth during the time they remain with the club that originally drafts them.

 

[standupand]

I'm excited by setting up the midfield because that's the problem we have to solve now. It's the problem right in front of us and if that problem drags to 2025 we'll have two problems to solve.

If you can have one deficiency and still be a good team but you can't have two. That's why the time is now to trade our first for a capable mid with a bit of stoppage power while retaining the future picks to bring in a frustrated kpf for 2026.

Is the midfield a problem to solve though? It looks fine to me - even without Dangerfield and Guthrie we still can't fit Bowes. The two we can't replace over the next few years are Blicavs and Hawkins. And since unicorns are not on the market, a traditional FF like Fogarty sounds like a smart one to target.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Is the midfield a problem to solve though? It looks fine to me - even without Dangerfield and Guthrie we still can't fit Bowes. The two we can't replace over the next few years are Blicavs and Hawkins. And since unicorns are not on the market, a traditional FF like Fogarty sounds like a smart one to target.

We have good kids coming through but it's thin. Drop the over 30s and we would be close to the worst midfield in the afl.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Yeah yeah, I'm on board. The Smith and Perkins stuff doesn't get me excited at all, admittedly I don't know who Perkins is. But Fogarty, yeah. What are the chances we can go wrong with two Fogartys?

I'm surprised by this...you do know Fogarty's been around a while, right?

2017 draft, same as Naughton, LDU, and our old favourite Chook. He's not a kid anymore.

I wouldn't say no if we got him for nothing, but supporters are a decent measuring stick for a players value. They see him every week, while we usually just catch the highlights.

Fogarty isn't as highly rated by Crows supporters as you might think. They've got much higher hopes for TT, and Welsh coming through this year as a father son.

In terms of the post Walker plans, he's just a cog in the machine, and would be more akin to another Dempsey or Henry IMO than a Hawkins replacement (Albeit Dempsey will likely be a midfielder by then)

On the other hand, Essendon supporters would despise us if we picked up Perkins.

Very highly rated, and seen as similar player to Rozee once he gets another 15-30 games in the midfield.

In terms of needs, I think we need a Perkins type more than Forgarty, and he fits the age demographic of the group we're building a little better.

That would be the midfield more or less sorted, and we can turn our attention to either drafting a legit Hawkins replacement to partner Henry & Neale, or go full tilt at Cadman in a couple years.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I'm surprised by this...you do know Fogarty's been around a while, right?

2017 draft, same as Naughton, LDU, and our old favourite Chook. He's not a kid anymore.

I wouldn't say no if we got him for nothing, but supporters are a decent measuring stick for a players value. They see him every week, while we usually just catch the highlights.

Fogarty isn't as highly rated by Crows supporters as you might think. They've got much higher hopes for TT, and Welsh coming through this year as a father son.

In terms of the post Walker plans, he's just a cog in the machine, and would be more akin to another Dempsey or Henry IMO than a Hawkins replacement (Albeit Dempsey will likely be a midfielder by then)

On the other hand, Essendon supporters would despise us if we picked up Perkins.

Very highly rated, and seen as similar player to Rozee once he gets another 15-30 games in the midfield.

In terms of needs, I think we need a Perkins type more than Forgarty, and he fits the age demographic of the group we're building a little better.

That would be the midfield more or less sorted, and we can turn our attention to either drafting a legit Hawkins replacement to partner Henry & Neale, or go full tilt at Cadman in a couple years.

The point of the original post is that Fogarty is another trade period away from being on the market while midfielders are on the market now.

So

 

[Kobe Gryant]

We have good kids coming through but it's thin. Drop the over 30s and we would be close to the worst midfield in the afl.

I wouldn't go that far, but we'll be addressing it this off season in one way or another.

Whether it's Smith and/or Perkins, another of that ilk, or just picking another first round mid, we'll be doing something to bolster it this summer.

The main problems will be the age as you mention, and we'll be looking for a couple to make the leap from good and promising to elite a bit quicker than we'd like.

Bruhn, Holmes, Clark, Knevitt, Dempsey, Conway and another first round mid while promising, is a bloody young group. Younger than Hawthorns, and pretty close to Norf, who are both rebuilding.

It's still young even if we throw Bowes in there full time, or get Perkins and/or Smith.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I wouldn't go that far, but we'll be addressing it this off season in one way or another.

Whether it's Smith and/or Perkins, another of that ilk, or just picking another first round mid, we'll be doing something to bolster it this summer.

The main problems will be the age as you mention, and we'll be looking for a couple to make the leap from good and promising to elite a bit quicker than we'd like.

Bruhn, Holmes, Clark, Knevitt, Dempsey, Conway and another first round mid while promising, is a bloody young group. Younger than Hawthorns, and pretty close to Norf, who are both rebuilding.

It's still young even if we throw Bowes in there full time, or get Perkins and/or Smith.

Another kid in the first round isn't buttering any parsnips next year though. It's a long term play to cover a gap approaching in the short term. I just don't think a draftee addresses it.

 

[standupand]

I'm surprised by this...you do know Fogarty's been around a while, right?

2017 draft, same as Naughton, LDU, and our old favourite Chook. He's not a kid anymore.

I wouldn't say no if we got him for nothing, but supporters are a decent measuring stick for a players value. They see him every week, while we usually just catch the highlights.

Fogarty isn't as highly rated by Crows supporters as you might think. They've got much higher hopes for TT, and Welsh coming through this year as a father son.

In terms of the post Walker plans, he's just a cog in the machine, and would be more akin to another Dempsey or Henry IMO than a Hawkins replacement (Albeit Dempsey will likely be a midfielder by then)

On the other hand, Essendon supporters would despise us if we picked up Perkins.

Very highly rated, and seen as similar player to Rozee once he gets another 15-30 games in the midfield.

In terms of needs, I think we need a Perkins type more than Forgarty, and he fits the age demographic of the group we're building a little better.

That would be the midfield more or less sorted, and we can turn our attention to either drafting a legit Hawkins replacement to partner Henry & Neale, or go full tilt at Cadman in a couple years.

He's 24. Just about to come into his prime as a power forward I'd say.
Look no-one is a legit Hawkins replacement, but both Neale and Cameron as well as Henry are athletic mobile type forwards. Fogarty I see as a traditional full-forward who could complement that forward group in Hawkin's absence.
Imo we have a strong contingent of midfielders coming through.

 

[iameviljez]

I think the point is that the draft is not what actually achieves equalisation in the system because good young players don't necessary repay their worth during the time they remain with the club that originally drafts them.

Trades aren’t that common.

We were pretty exceptional in how we built a team, but most players are still one club players. The introduction of the two expansion teams did create a wave of players ripe for the picking, but IMO that’s a one off. Most players are still one club players