Autopsy The annihilations continue v suns

[FootySmartSimpson]

Drafting one now won't do us any favour. Jed Walter is a ******* monster and I love him, but he didn't exactly set the world on fire last night. He (and any we draft) will take years to develop.

We are not trading/free agencing our way out of this. No one will come.

The time to draft KPFs was yesterday. You want to wait until that time was Friday?

The only choice we have is to trade, grift, hustle enough draft capital and draft a few over the next two years.

 

[fusion]

I have thought for many years about an established priority system along the lines of how many years you have been out of finals. Say after 5 years of non finals you get pick 19or if there are several teams in this situation they go in order depending on how many years they have been out of finals,

If you have been out even more years you get pick 20 and you could even go pick 21 if there has been a longer non finals period.

Stops all talk about picks and hopefully repairs clubs before they hit the bottom.

They need to come up a transparent system. There should be NO priority picks or academy or father sons in the first 18 picks.

All clubs get the opportunity to select once, but can trade the pick.

Only after R1 is complete can PP or academy/father sons be "inserted" in the draft order.

They've already gotten rid of the academy picks in the first 20 picks. Father sons should require the club wanting that player to "bid up" the difference. Eg Let's say there's another Daicos available last year, and Collingwood has pick #18. If the team with pick #5 picks him, Collingwood can match, but have to give up their #18 pick and have a corresponding " points debt" that affects their first round list order the following year, or perhaps their second round offer in the current year (if not traded away). They are still getting a discount under F-S but there's still only 18 players taken in Round 1.

If a club has already spent their pick... eg Eagles finish second, but someone bids on their father-son with pick 15, then they must give up their next available pick, plus any debt.

The reality is that we wouldn’t have had McKercher and Duursma.

McKercher is probably having more impact in defence that Sheezel last year despite not reaching the lofty disposal numbers. He will be a bonafide gun when he is strong enough to play in the middle, like peeling away, unable to be caught good. And he will run both ways because he is doing it now. He is already one of our best defensive players despite being a skinny kid.

Duursma at this stage is a possible match-winning bonus to that.

Losing that game would have meant Reid, but it would have only meant getting our end of first priority picks. The AFL were never going to allow us to have Reid and McKercher.

I cannot believe posters on here whinge about winning a game as if it is some sliding doors moment and forget the millions of decisions leading up to where we are now and the awful position we are in. It’s laughable.

If we'd had pick #1, I doubt the McKay compensation would have been #2. As there is no transparency on the system of how compensation picks work, the AFL probably would have "manufactured" a result so that we got a mid-first round pick with Harley Reid.

So my guess is winning that game = McKercher and Durrsma
Losing that game = Reid and pick #8, which with Jed Walter and Ethan Reid being academy picks, and subtracting our compensation pick, ends up being Nate Caddy or Connor O'Sullivan (or anyone else taken later), depending if someone else picks up Duursma before us.

2023 Order	ALTERNATE UNIVERSE
1​	1​	Harley Reid	West Coast	Bendigo Pioneers	Talent League
2​	2​	Colby McKercher	North Melbourne	Tasmania Devils	Talent League
3​	academy	Jed Walter	Gold Coast	Palm Beach Currumbin	QAFL	Academy selection, matched bid by North Melbourne
4​	didn't exist in this version	Zane Duursma	North Melbourne	Gippsland Power	Talent League	Free Agency Compensation pick (McKay)
5​	3​	Nick Watson	Hawthorn	Eastern Ranges	Talent League
6​	4​	Ryley Sanders	Western Bulldogs	Sandringham Dragons	Talent League	←Gold Coast
7​	5​	Caleb Windsor	Melbourne	Eastern Ranges	Talent League	←Fremantle (2022)
8​	6​	Daniel Curtin	Adelaide	Claremont	WAFL	←Greater Western Sydney←Richmond (2022)
9​	academy	Ethan Read	Gold Coast	Palm Beach Currumbin	QAFL	Academy selection, matched bid by Geelong
10​	7​	Nate Caddy	Essendon	Northern Knights	Talent League	←Geelong
11​	8​	Connor O'Sullivan	Geelong	Murray Bushrangers	Talent League	←Essendon

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

One of the criticism I heard Jason Dunstall talking about is our habit of over possessing the ball only to lead to a turnover, and I think this is a good example of that:
View attachment 1986773


The ball passes through 11 different touch points before we end up turning it over. It's just an awful lot of wasted effort.

How much of this is that we are refusing to play marking types across HF, so the times we do actually clear the ball, we have nothing to kick to or we kick to someone who gets their pants pulled down by their direct opponent (see Larkey).

And I feel for Larkey. He is a very good lead up full forward. But he is expected each and every week to outmuscle better and stronger opponents, and this probably wouldn’t even be in his top 10 attributes.

If we somehow develop a strategy to kick in front of our forwards into space, this may improve things.

 

[Dirty_11]

Aside from the draft, the only players coming to us are left field picks from lesser competitions or those players discarded and hoping for one last chance on a senior list.

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

The umpire would have their whistle in the mouths salivating the thought of paying block free kicks against us. A rule rarely paid but comes out time and time again vs us

How can a mostly non-contact sport like basketball allow screens to open up space for players and the AFL not allow teammates to create opportunities legally for their teammates?

 

[Elroo]

And that my friends, is the rub.

Trade and Free Agency for quality players is off the table for us. No one is walking into their manager's office and saying dammit get me to North Melbourne.

Low crowds, no leadership, 4 trips to nothingness in Hobart, there was nothing on the table before but it's almost totally done and dusted now. Our only avenue to improvement is the draft, all the while what quality senior players we do have will leave.

& Sunday twilight afternoon games, 1 game on free-to-air TV between rounds 1-14!

 

[DuckYeah]

How can a mostly non-contact sport like basketball allow screens to open up space for players and the AFL not allow teammates to create opportunities legally for their teammates?

Its bewildering. Ive banged on about the state of the game on numerous threads. Its not footy, its a running semi contact game.

 

[TopEndRoo]

Observations from last nights mess

1. The ‘young Suns’ were much bigger than our boys. The extra pre-seasons are really noticeable. Jed Walter is a monster, he’s going to tear teams apart. We need to draft/trade some size into our side or we’re going to get out muscled every week.

2. Our backline cops a lot of heat but it’s not through lack of effort. The ball was rarely in our forward line and King/Walter just kept on presenting. Given our injuries down back, I don’t think it’s our area of greatest need.

3. We need a second key forward. At a minimum, Larkey is double teamed. At one point the nearest 4 players to Larkey (who was our forward-most player on centre wing) were Suns!! Unsurprisingly, we dump kick out of the backline towards Larkey who is ragdolled by 2-4 defenders and it comes straight back in to our backline. I had known he is generally outnumbered but seeing it in the flesh, it’s pretty bad..

4. Not for the first time this year I’m surprised by the match stats. Statistically, the GCS did marginally better than us but, for the most part (less I50) we were on par with them. Our players are getting enough of the ball but it’s all in the back half where our turnovers kill us.

5. Colby McKercher is a jet. His speed is noticeable, he’s rarely off the ground (90% ToG) and he looks like he always wants the ball. His kicking might be sloppy at times but he’s still a major win.

6. Our short kicking in defence is terrible. That said, without a decent CHF to at least break even when we kick long, what are the defenders supposed to do? Every time a defender chipped it inside our D50 I cringed, then I cringed when we went long out of defence.. so much cringe!!!!

7. We’ve got some excellent youth but if we don’t get them some reinforcements during this years trade period, we’re going to end up the North Melbourne Academy. I reckon this year will make us or break us.




On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[DuckYeah]

In all honesty, I bang on how shit the game is, how soft it is. If the Kangas didn’t exist and I was in a pub, I’d probably bag the shit out of supporters for watching it. Its a shit sport entertainment experience.. What once was a fantastic hard game has become one way game of pace. Its awful to watch.

 

[William Caresser]

We were competitive in the first quarter and then stopped to a walk in the second. Same old story - too many aren't fit enough and don't work hard enough. Broken record.

It was hot and humid but how is it that McKercher in his 9th game ran harder for four quarters than every other North player except Sheezel and Scott? Probably something to do with preparation and that these three see themselves as professional athletes and have done so long before they got to the club. They identify as professional athletes and live that life.

I'm not sure how much more evidence we need that 80% of our list is below average for fitness and conditioning. As usual, we (and our pressure rating) fell of a cliff after 1 quarter. Our turnovers are often fatigue related.

The club needs to stop using the young list as an excuse when it's almost every single 3rd year plus player who has below average fitness. How can our 3rd year plus players be so far behind? Are our preseasons just a daycare centre for young adults? It's as though all the bonding results in players doing less. Get in some external experts from the AIS to forensically assess why we lag so far behind. And do it now. The club doesn't have enough expertise internally to fix this.

 

[Val Keating]

What a ****ing shit show. Sick of it.

 

[DuckYeah]

We were competitive in the first quarter and then stopped to a walk in the second. Same old story - too many aren't fit enough and don't work hard enough. Broken record.

It was hot and humid but how is it that McKercher in his 9th game ran harder for four quarters than every other North player except Sheezel? Probably something to do with preparation and that these two see themselves as professional athletes and have done long before they got to the club. They identify as professional athletes and live that life.

I'm not sure how much more evidence we need that 80% of our list is below average for fitness and conditioning. As usual, we (and our pressure rating) fell of a cliff after 1 quarter. Our turnovers are often fatigue related.

The club needs to stop using the young list as an excuse when it's almost every single 3rd year plus player who has below average fitness. How can our 3rd year plus players be so far behind? Are our preseasons just a daycare centre for young adults? It's as though all the bonding results in players doing less. Get in some external experts from the AIS to forensically assess why we lag so far behind. And do it now.

Those issues are pre clarkson

I remember Nobles saying and also Clarkson in his first year, sacrificing some aerobic capacity fitness for game plan.

Noble had tt, ziebs, cunners (sort of), magoo and goldy. If Clarkson had those 5, 3 years ago we might be in a different position now. However there was comment regarding the players not being able to understand/execute the game plan. Basically sacrificed fitness for nothing.

Preseason 23/24 The Kangas worked on fitness, so they have essentially completed 4 preseasons working on game plans and very minimal fitness. That may explain why the 3rd 4th year players are so far behind.

We should greater aerobic capacity in 2025 as it will be fitness based again.

 

[DuckYeah]

But WC paid for them to have a great footy trip.

I will die on this hill. The AFL is one of the most corrupt organisations on the planet. Its wild how we have been subtly shafted year after, after year, just micro shaftings, without a trained eye, will go unnoticed.

 

[koshari]

We were competitive in the first quarter and then stopped to a walk in the second. Same old story - too many aren't fit enough and don't work hard enough. Broken record.

It was hot and humid but how is it that McKercher in his 9th game ran harder for four quarters than every other North player except Sheezel? Probably something to do with preparation and that these two see themselves as professional athletes and have done so long before they got to the club. They identify as professional athletes and live that life.

I'm not sure how much more evidence we need that 80% of our list is below average for fitness and conditioning. As usual, we (and our pressure rating) fell of a cliff after 1 quarter. Our turnovers are often fatigue related.

The club needs to stop using the young list as an excuse when it's almost every single 3rd year plus player who has below average fitness. How can our 3rd year plus players be so far behind? Are our preseasons just a daycare centre for young adults? It's as though all the bonding results in players doing less. Get in some external experts from the AIS to forensically assess why we lag so far behind. And do it now. The club doesn't have enough expertise internally to fix this.

actually bailey scott covered the biggest distance and was the only one with wheels still intact in the 4th. say what you will about him but he is a gut runner,

 

[William Caresser]

actually bailey scott covered the biggest distance ans was the only one with wheels still intact in the 4th. say what you will about him but he is a gut runner,

Apologies to Bailey - he also lives the life of a professional athlete. So there was Scott, Sheezel and McKercher who ran the most. And McKercher ran hard in the last quarter while others dropped like flies.

Two of our youngest players running the hardest. Every club has young players in their seniors - ours deliver fitness in spades. It's almost all of our 50-60 game plus players who don't.

 

[Amicalola]

In all honesty, I bang on how s**t the game is, how soft it is. If the Kangas didn’t exist and I was in a pub, I’d probably bag the s**t out of supporters for watching it. Its a s**t sport entertainment experience.. What once was a fantastic hard game has become one way game of pace. Its awful to watch.

I find it a bit odd that you complain about how soft the game is, but at the same time seem to agree with us that a key issue is our players being small and getting outmuscled... Like, a lot of our problem is that our players are soft in a league that is tough.

 

[Supa_Nova]

Ok. In the light of day, having slept on it, I'm not happy I posted this. There are many people trying their best and at the moment we're not good enough. In time, things can change.

A bit of luck here and there wouldn't hurt, though. A few handy free kicks when needed. The ball bouncing our way and sparking confidence in the right player or players at the right time. Suddenly we get a run on. And things turn around miraculously. It's not impossible.

Sorry I wrote what I wrote. In the light of day, I haven't and won't give up.

Great post. This season sucks. This period sucks.

I've been reflecting a lot, and this is by no means even the worst loss we've had to the gold coast. There was a game when we were at the peak of our powers in the 2010s, and we got smashed. Solidified we were not up to the best of them.

Last night while disappointing, should have come as no surprise given it was Darwin. I think us supporters are tired and frustrated.

Also, LDU is a gun. Sick of the LDU bashing.

 

[R00StaR]

I will die on this hill. The AFL is one of the most corrupt organisations on the planet. Its wild how we have been subtly shafted year after, after year, just micro shaftings, without a trained eye, will go unnoticed.

Yeah theres just no way they turned up to play that day.

However my hill is we are FAR closer than people think. We coughed up at least 8 goals yesterday that shouldn't happen, at least 1 from a badly missed free kick that shouldve gone our way and an unlucky one from the siren beating Curtis.

Just off the top of my head, LDU skill error centering the ball, LDU not smothering in goal square, McKercher kickout error, Corr's out of bounds and McDonalds scrub kick when we had a player in open space. Of course there were more but its already much closer.

That said its skills, composure and lack for strength where we're mostly struggling. Makes it much harder to get past those forward presses. Another key forward and X improving over head would help a lot. Duursma will also be a key there as he fills out and builds a tank.

Having Chom with a season's experience, Logue and Dawson back makes a huge difference. Without non stop pressure on our defenders Corr would less prone to brain farts. Will Dawson looks great and then adding Goater back in there totally transforms our back 6. It also pushes out some of the low performing ball butchers. Think what a 6'5 big body mid would add to that as well.

I know it appears we're 1000 miles off it, but im a firm believer we're not and dont need to do anything drastic. More patience is required which i understand is tough given results in recent years. Unlike other years we didnt have the cattle to improve to the required levels, we do now apart from a few spots and Smillie will fill one of those.

 

[Supa_Nova]

They need to come up a transparent system. There should be NO priority picks or academy or father sons in the first 18 picks.

All clubs get the opportunity to select once, but can trade the pick.

Only after R1 is complete can PP or academy/father sons be "inserted" in the draft order.

They've already gotten rid of the academy picks in the first 20 picks. Father sons should require the club wanting that player to "bid up" the difference. Eg Let's say there's another Daicos available last year, and Collingwood has pick #18. If the team with pick #5 picks him, Collingwood can match, but have to give up their #18 pick and have a corresponding " points debt" that affects their first round list order the following year, or perhaps their second round offer in the current year (if not traded away). They are still getting a discount under F-S but there's still only 18 players taken in Round 1.

If a club has already spent their pick... eg Eagles finish second, but someone bids on their father-son with pick 15, then they must give up their next available pick, plus any debt.


If we'd had pick #1, I doubt the McKay compensation would have been #2. As there is no transparency on the system of how compensation picks work, the AFL probably would have "manufactured" a result so that we got a mid-first round pick with Harley Reid.

So my guess is winning that game = McKercher and Durrsma
Losing that game = Reid and pick #8, which with Jed Walter and Ethan Reid being academy picks, and subtracting our compensation pick, ends up being Nate Caddy or Connor O'Sullivan (or anyone else taken later), depending if someone else picks up Duursma before us.

2023 Order	ALTERNATE UNIVERSE
1​	1​	Harley Reid	West Coast	Bendigo Pioneers	Talent League
2​	2​	Colby McKercher	North Melbourne	Tasmania Devils	Talent League
3​	academy	Jed Walter	Gold Coast	Palm Beach Currumbin	QAFL	Academy selection, matched bid by North Melbourne
4​	didn't exist in this version	Zane Duursma	North Melbourne	Gippsland Power	Talent League	Free Agency Compensation pick (McKay)
5​	3​	Nick Watson	Hawthorn	Eastern Ranges	Talent League
6​	4​	Ryley Sanders	Western Bulldogs	Sandringham Dragons	Talent League	←Gold Coast
7​	5​	Caleb Windsor	Melbourne	Eastern Ranges	Talent League	←Fremantle (2022)
8​	6​	Daniel Curtin	Adelaide	Claremont	WAFL	←Greater Western Sydney←Richmond (2022)
9​	academy	Ethan Read	Gold Coast	Palm Beach Currumbin	QAFL	Academy selection, matched bid by Geelong
10​	7​	Nate Caddy	Essendon	Northern Knights	Talent League	←Geelong
11​	8​	Connor O'Sullivan	Geelong	Murray Bushrangers	Talent League	←Essendon

Exactly. When west Coast lost to bulldogs the outcry from media and club land was huge about the mckay compensation. It wouldve been mid round and no mckercher. So we suck it up and move on - also if we tanked we wouldve been sanctioned somehow. Maybe no compensation AT ALL.

 

[Supa_Nova]

Yeah theres just no way they turned up to play that day.

However my hill is we are FAR closer than people think. We coughed up at least 8 goals yesterday that shouldn't happen, at least 1 from a badly missed free kick that shouldve gone our way and an unlucky one from the siren beating Curtis.

Just off the top of my head, LDU skill error centering the ball, LDU not smothering in goal square, McKercher kickout error, Corr's out of bounds and McDonalds scrub kick when we had a player in open space. Of course there were more but its already much closer.

That said its skills, composure and lack for strength where we're mostly struggling. Makes it much harder to get past those forward presses. Another key forward and X improving over head would help a lot. Duursma will also be a key there as he fills out and builds a tank.

Having Chom with a season's experience, Logue and Dawson back makes a huge difference. Without non stop pressure on our defenders Corr would less prone to brain farts. Will Dawson looks great and then adding Goater back in there totally transforms our back 6. It also pushes out some of the low performing ball butchers. Think what a 6'5 big body mid would add to that as well.

I know it appears we're 1000 miles off it, but im a firm believer we're not and dont need to do anything drastic. More patience is required which i understand is tough given results in recent years. Unlike other years we didnt have the cattle to improve to the required levels, we do now apart from a few spots and Smillie will fill one of those.

Again, great post. I think perhaps the club knows how bad we are, and doesn't wanna just fall into a couple of wins. So staying the course.

It's the exact reason hugh greenwood has not played middle. He'd help , but then we'd know less about the mids who will take us further

 

[R00StaR]

Again, great post. I think perhaps the club knows how bad we are, and doesn't wanna just fall into a couple of wins. So staying the course.

It's the exact reason hugh greenwood has not played middle. He'd help , but then we'd know less about the mids who will take us further

Thanks

Just on Greenwood, i love his attitude. You know you're getting 100% from him, be that in a role he's not suited to or in the VFL. While not being an A grader he's been a great addition to our list. Much respect for him.

And yeah we simply have to stay the course. We're really not that far off from closing the gap to 2-3 goals with most teams imo with ample improvement left in our list.

 

[R00StaR]

Again, great post. I think perhaps the club knows how bad we are, and doesn't wanna just fall into a couple of wins. So staying the course.

It's the exact reason hugh greenwood has not played middle. He'd help , but then we'd know less about the mids who will take us further

Btw i shouldve added why i stressed on the marking players so much in getting past those forward presses. Taking that contested mark allows us to hold up play a fraction allowing us to get guys in front of the ball. It gives reward to those who run hard to run into space. We really only have Larkey and X who aren't strong contested marks. Should X improve, a marking CHF, a 6'5 mid and Duursma will make a world of difference.
Then general improvement in strength, tanks, skills takes to another level in break though. As it stands we have to scrap and rush our way forward most times.

 

[Ischenko]

I personally believe we need more coaches wearing shorts.

Hardwick was also wearing shorts!! I’d love to see Brad Scott’s knees next week, not sure I’ve ever seen them.

 

[Topparoo]

Thanks

Just on Greenwood, i love his attitude. You know you're getting 100% from him, be that in a role he's not suited to or in the VFL. While not being an A grader he's been a great addition to our list. Much respect for him.

And yeah we simply have to stay the course. We're really not that far off from closing the gap to 2-3 goals with most teams imo with ample improvement left in our list.

Like your optimism I hope you're right

 

[R00StaR]

The umpire would have their whistle in the mouths salivating the thought of paying block free kicks against us. A rule rarely paid but comes out time and time again vs us

To be fair we just dont do it enough. McKercher made a fanatic block deep in defense. Love to see more of this type of selflessness acknowledged. Not sure how much it is behind closed doors since we dont do it enough, but at least in highlight packages the club releases and by us supporters.