Resource The list your Ken Hinkley Era Stats Thread

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Really simple finals analysis of Hinkley's tenure. We rank 11th in won finals, given no GF's or flags have been won.

winslossesflagsgfsWin %
Rich
10​
6​
3​
3​
63%​
Geel
10​
14​
1​
2​
42%​
Haw
9​
1​
3​
3​
90%​
GWS
9​
7​
0​
1​
56%​
Coll
8​
7​
1​
2​
53%​
Syd
8​
12​
0​
3​
40%​
WB
7​
5​
1​
2​
58%​
WC
7​
5​
1​
2​
58%​
Melb
5​
5​
1​
1​
50%​
Bris
5​
7​
0​
1​
42%​
PA
5​
7​
0​
0​
42%​
Adel
4​
3​
0​
1​
57%​
Freo
4​
5​
0​
1​
44%​
NM
4​
3​
0​
0​
57%​
Carlton
3​
2​
0​
0​
60%​
St K
1​
2​
0​
0​
33%​
Ess
0​
4​
0​
0​
0%​
GC
0​
0​
0​
0​
0%​

If we just go Post-2015, arguably we rank 15th based on win percent, equal 12th on wins, or 12th on number of finals played.
winslossesflagsgfsWin %
Rich
10​
4​
3​
3​
71%​
Geel
9​
10​
1​
2​
47%​
GWS
9​
7​
0​
1​
56%​
Coll
8​
6​
1​
2​
57%​
WB
7​
5​
1​
2​
58%​
WC
7​
5​
1​
2​
58%​
Melb
5​
5​
1​
1​
50%​
Syd
5​
9​
0​
2​
36%​
Bris
5​
7​
0​
1​
42%​
Adel
4​
3​
0​
1​
57%​
Haw
3​
1​
1​
1​
75%​
Freo
2​
2​
0​
0​
50%​
NM
2​
2​
0​
0​
50%​
Carlton
2​
2​
0​
0​
50%​
PA
2​
5​
0​
0​
29%​
St K
1​
2​
0​
0​
33%​
Ess
0​
3​
0​
0​
0%​
GC
0​
0​
0​
0​
#DIV/0!​

Whichever way you cut it, it’s historically deplorable.
 
Really simple finals analysis of Hinkley's tenure. We rank 11th in won finals, given no GF's or flags have been won.

winslossesflagsgfsWin %
Rich
10​
6​
3​
3​
63%​
Geel
10​
14​
1​
2​
42%​
Haw
9​
1​
3​
3​
90%​
GWS
9​
7​
0​
1​
56%​
Coll
8​
7​
1​
2​
53%​
Syd
8​
12​
0​
3​
40%​
WB
7​
5​
1​
2​
58%​
WC
7​
5​
1​
2​
58%​
Melb
5​
5​
1​
1​
50%​
Bris
5​
7​
0​
1​
42%​
PA
5​
7​
0​
0​
42%​
Adel
4​
3​
0​
1​
57%​
Freo
4​
5​
0​
1​
44%​
NM
4​
3​
0​
0​
57%​
Carlton
3​
2​
0​
0​
60%​
St K
1​
2​
0​
0​
33%​
Ess
0​
4​
0​
0​
0%​
GC
0​
0​
0​
0​
0%​

If we just go Post-2015, arguably we rank 15th based on win percent, equal 12th on wins, or 12th on number of finals played.
winslossesflagsgfsWin %
Rich
10​
4​
3​
3​
71%​
Geel
9​
10​
1​
2​
47%​
GWS
9​
7​
0​
1​
56%​
Coll
8​
6​
1​
2​
57%​
WB
7​
5​
1​
2​
58%​
WC
7​
5​
1​
2​
58%​
Melb
5​
5​
1​
1​
50%​
Syd
5​
9​
0​
2​
36%​
Bris
5​
7​
0​
1​
42%​
Adel
4​
3​
0​
1​
57%​
Haw
3​
1​
1​
1​
75%​
Freo
2​
2​
0​
0​
50%​
NM
2​
2​
0​
0​
50%​
Carlton
2​
2​
0​
0​
50%​
PA
2​
5​
0​
0​
29%​
St K
1​
2​
0​
0​
33%​
Ess
0​
3​
0​
0​
0%​
GC
0​
0​
0​
0​
#DIV/0!​

Playing QF should be a “bonus win”.
Winning QF should also be a “bonus win”.

If a team goes QF -> PF -> GF -> Flag, it should have 5 wins.

There should also be “bonus losses” for every final not played. Ultimately, Finals would count as 5 extra games.

Finals Record - Adjusted
1a) QFw -> PFw -> GFw: 5-0
1b) QFw -> PFw -> GFl: 4-1
1c) QFw -> PFl: 3-2
2a) QFl -> SFw -> PFw -> GFw: 4-1
2b) QFl -> SFw -> PFw -> GFl: 3-2
2c) QFl -> SFw -> PFl: 2-3
2d) QFl -> SFl: 1-4
3a) EFw -> SFw -> PFw -> GFw: 4-1
3b) EFw -> SFw -> PFw -> GFl: 3-2
3c) EFw -> SFw -> PFl: 2-3
3d) EFw -> SFl: 1-4
4) EFl: 0-5
5) DNQ: 0-5


P.S.: Note that teams would get into SF with the same 1-1 record, regardless.
 

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Playing QF should be a “bonus win”.
Winning QF should also be a “bonus win”.

If a team goes QF -> PF -> GF -> Flag, it should have 5 wins.

There should also be “bonus losses” for every final not played. Ultimately, Finals would count as 5 extra games.

Finals Record - Adjusted
1a) QFw -> PFw -> GFw: 5-0
1b) QFw -> PFw -> GFl: 4-1
1c) QFw -> PFl: 3-2
2a) QFl -> SFw -> PFw -> GFw: 4-1
2b) QFl -> SFw -> PFw -> GFl: 3-2
2c) QFl -> SFw -> PFl: 2-3
2d) QFl -> SFl: 1-4
3a) EFw -> SFw -> PFw -> GFw: 4-1
3b) EFw -> SFw -> PFw -> GFl: 3-2
3c) EFw -> SFw -> PFl: 2-3
3d) EFw -> SFl: 1-4
4) EFl: 0-5
5) DNQ: 0-5


P.S.: Note that teams would get into SF with the same 1-1 record, regardless.


Hinkley’s Finals Record - Adjusted

2013, EFw -> SFl: 1-4
2014, EFw -> SFw -> PFl: 2-3
2015, DNQ: 0-5
2016, DNQ: 0-5
2017, EFl: 0-5
2018, DNQ: 0-5
2019, DNQ: 0-5
2020, QFw -> PFl: 3-2
2021, QFw -> PFl: 3-2
2022, DNQ: 0-5
2023, QFl -> SFl: 1-4

TOTAL: 10w - 45l (W% 10.18)
 
Playing QF should be a “bonus win”.
Winning QF should also be a “bonus win”.

If a team goes QF -> PF -> GF -> Flag, it should have 5 wins.

There should also be “bonus losses” for every final not played. Ultimately, Finals would count as 5 extra games.

Finals Record - Adjusted
1a) QFw -> PFw -> GFw: 5-0
1b) QFw -> PFw -> GFl: 4-1
1c) QFw -> PFl: 3-2
2a) QFl -> SFw -> PFw -> GFw: 4-1
2b) QFl -> SFw -> PFw -> GFl: 3-2
2c) QFl -> SFw -> PFl: 2-3
2d) QFl -> SFl: 1-4
3a) EFw -> SFw -> PFw -> GFw: 4-1
3b) EFw -> SFw -> PFw -> GFl: 3-2
3c) EFw -> SFw -> PFl: 2-3
3d) EFw -> SFl: 1-4
4) EFl: 0-5
5) DNQ: 0-5


P.S.: Note that teams would get into SF with the same 1-1 record, regardless.
It could be a bonus, but last year we made a QF and still lost both, so ultimately you can only get judged on what you've played.

The other factor in it all is the uneven draw. We may have earnt those home QFs in 2020 and 2021, but they may have been been because of the skewed fixture advantages we got during covid. So finishing 2nd or 5th, might've been the difference and either way we might still have had the same results, a win and a loss.

So either way I'm counting them as what they are. 5 wins, 7 losses.
 
It could be a bonus, but last year we made a QF and still lost both, so ultimately you can only get judged on what you've played.

The other factor in it all is the uneven draw. We may have earnt those home QFs in 2020 and 2021, but they may have been been because of the skewed fixture advantages we got during covid. So finishing 2nd or 5th, might've been the difference and either way we might still have had the same results, a win and a loss.

So either way I'm counting them as what they are. 5 wins, 7 losses.

I’ll check how we compare with the rest of the league
 
It could be a bonus, but last year we made a QF and still lost both, so ultimately you can only get judged on what you've played.

The other factor in it all is the uneven draw. We may have earnt those home QFs in 2020 and 2021, but they may have been been because of the skewed fixture advantages we got during covid. So finishing 2nd or 5th, might've been the difference and either way we might still have had the same results, a win and a loss.

So either way I'm counting them as what they are. 5 wins, 7 losses.



(AFL) Finals Wins Adjusted.PNG

In number of Finals Wins Adjusted (FWA), we are right there, stuck in Mediocreville, as usual. [The league's average is 9.2; the median is 9.5]

However, teams without GF appearances have 4 FWA or fewer. We have TEN.

If this doesn't show clearly how we have underperformed in Finals under Hinkley, I don't know what willl...

---

From 2000 to 2012


(AFL) Finals Wins Adjusted 2000-2012.PNG
 
Last edited:
This belongs here:

Kenny from Camperdown!:

• 10-12 overall record in Showdowns despite the Crows being a flaming bag of dogsh¡t since the 2017 GF;

• Lost a home Prelim to a squad of literal hotel detainees by 12 goals in 2021;

• Conspired to miss the eight despite an 11-4 start, and the club boasting it was an all-in on the flag at the 2018 Members’ Seminar;

• In the penultimate round of 2019, lost a crucial game to North Melbourne by 14 goals despite starting as favourites (the Kangas kicked ONE goal in Geelong the previous week), resulting in missing the eight for the fourth time in five years. Gerard Whateley responds by berating fed-up Port fans because obviously. I mean, why wouldn’t he?!;

• Lost the 2022 Russell Ebert Tribute Game at Adelaide Oval by 11 goals despite a +12 advantage in inside50’s. Hawthorn haven’t won a game outside their home catchment (Vic/Tas) since;

• Has lost his last four knockout finals at home (2017/20/21/23), including a comprehensive defeat at the hands of Adam Kingsley’s Giants last time out, who he suggested “should remember the last time they came here and got beat” in the lead-up;

• Finally, as we all know, breaks the VFL/AFL record for the longest-serving coach in history to never qualify for a Grand Final this week.

And he’s still here until the end of 2025.

View attachment 1999641
 
After the Showdown and Carlton games, we’re back to even at Adelaide Oval under lights (2014-Pres):

33 wins
33 losses

You can almost set your watch to it.
Assume Carlton have put this to 33-34. Do you have a top 8/bottom 10 split for these?

I feel like doing a public service and letting The Age's tipping podcast know about the trends here. They always reference our home record when tipping us at home, clearly unaware of the nuances over the long term.

AO, daytime: XX-XX against all comers, 37-0 against bottom 10, Y-Y against the top 8
AO, nightime: 33-34 against all comers, X-X against bottom 10, Y-Y against the top 8

Does the law of conservation of AO daytime downhill skiiing momentum mean that if we lose to the Lions tomorrow, they will make finals in 2024?
 
Assume Carlton have put this to 33-34. Do you have a top 8/bottom 10 split for these?

I feel like doing a public service and letting The Age's tipping podcast know about the trends here. They always reference our home record when tipping us at home, clearly unaware of the nuances over the long term.

AO, daytime: XX-XX against all comers, 37-0 against bottom 10, Y-Y against the top 8
AO, nightime: 33-34 against all comers, X-X against bottom 10, Y-Y against the top 8

Does the law of conservation of AO daytime downhill skiiing momentum mean that if we lose to the Lions tomorrow, they will make finals in 2024?

Was thinking the same thing myself. Will have to check the odds of Brisbane making finals after the result.
 

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Assume Carlton have put this to 33-34. Do you have a top 8/bottom 10 split for these?

I feel like doing a public service and letting The Age's tipping podcast know about the trends here. They always reference our home record when tipping us at home, clearly unaware of the nuances over the long term.

AO, daytime: XX-XX against all comers, 37-0 against bottom 10, Y-Y against the top 8
AO, nightime: 33-34 against all comers, X-X against bottom 10, Y-Y against the top 8

Does the law of conservation of AO daytime downhill skiiing momentum mean that if we lose to the Lions tomorrow, they will make finals in 2024?
Dig thru this thread. There was a starting point stats before 2024 started. Post # 3 thanks to Coobk001's work.


 
Assume Carlton have put this to 33-34

My count is 33-33 after the Carlton defeat, but it’s possible I could be out by a game or two.

54B38718-5ACE-47A5-9756-5443B287C298.jpeg

Pretty sure Coob did the top-8/bottom-10 splits somewhere along the line.
 
My count is 33-33 after the Carlton defeat, but it’s possible I could be out by a game or two.

View attachment 2025769

Pretty sure Coob did the top-8/bottom-10 splits somewhere along the line.
33-33 is right as started 2024 at 30-30.

8 AO games, inc crows home showdown. 2 mid Sunday arvo games v WCE and Haw and won them, and are 3-3 in the other 6 games all played at night.

Thu N 0-2 crows and Carlton
Fri N.. 2-0 Essendon and St K
Sat N 1-1 Freo win, Melbourne lose.
 
33-33 is right as started 2024 at 30-30.

8 AO games, inc crows home showdown. 2 mid Sunday arvo games v WCE and Haw and won them, and are 3-3 in the other 6 games all played at night.

Thu N 0-2 crows and Carlton
Fri N.. 2-0 Essendon and St K
Sat N 1-1 Freo win, Melbourne lose.
Thanks, that would put it at:
AO, daytime: 48-16 against all comers, 37-2 against bottom 10, 11-14 against the top 8
AO, nightime: 33-33 against all comers, 20-10 against bottom 10, 13-23 against the top 8

Or

AO, daytime: 75% against all comers, 95% against bottom 10, 44% against the top 8
AO, nightime: 50% against all comers, 67% against bottom 10, 36% against the top 8
 
Most years under Hinkley's regime, Port has lost at least 1 game by 60 pts. Most of them have been away from home, but not since the 2021 PF loss to the bulldogs.

Most of them have been late in the season.

Brisbane today kicked the highest score by a non SA team at AO. 23.14 = 152 v 10.13 = 73 for a 79 pt loss.

These are the 10 goal losses since Hinkley took over


Rnd T Scoring F Scoring A R MW-D-L Venue Crowd Date
R22
A​
Fremantle
1.1 1.3 4.4 9.6​
60​
5.4 10.4 15.7 21.8​
134​
L​
-74​
12-0-9​
Subiaco​
35565​
Sat 24-Aug-2013 5:40 PM​

Smallest loss in 2014 was 26 pts to Sydney at AO Rd 20

R19
A​
Western Bulldogs
3.3 3.5 6.7 9.10​
64​
2.2 9.7 12.13 19.14​
128​
L​
-64​
8-0-10​
Docklands​
20590​
Sat 08-Aug-2015 2:10 PM​
R4
A​
Greater Western Sydney
3.1 5.3 7.6 9.11​
65​
6.6 14.10 16.18 22.19​
151
L​
-86
2-0-2​
Manuka Oval​
10028​
Sun 17-Apr-2016 1:10 PM​
R20
A​
Sydney
0.0 2.3 3.6 4.9​
33​
6.5 9.10 14.14 14.16​
100​
L​
-67​
9-0-10​
S.C.G.​
30204​
Sat 06-Aug-2016 1:45 PM​
R20
A​
Adelaide
1.1 1.3 4.4 7.4​
46​
1.9 5.15 12.18 18.22​
130​
L​
-84
11-0-8​
Adelaide Oval​
45028​
Sun 06-Aug-2017 4:10 PM​
R12
A​
Essendon
1.3 4.5 7.7 8.13​
61​
7.6 12.9 14.13 19.17​
131​
L​
-70​
6-0-5​
Docklands​
34022​
Sat 10-Jun-2017 7:25 PM​

Smallest loss in 2018 was Collingwood at MCG Rd 22 by 51pts and they kicked the highest score against us that year 115. 2018 was the 11-4 year we turned into 12-10 and missed finals.


R22
A​
North Melbourne
1.1 3.4 7.6 8.10​
58​
6.3 12.8 17.9 22.12​
144​
L​
-86
10-0-11​
Docklands​
17063​
Sat 17-Aug-2019 7:25 PM​


Even in Covid 2020 shortened quarters, on top every game, we managed a 10 goal loss.

R12
A​
Geelong
0.1 1.6 3.7 4.7​
31​
2.3 4.3 7.7 14.7​
91​
L​
-60​
9-0-3​
Carrara​
3378​
Fri 14-Aug-2020 7:50 PM​


PF
F​
Western Bulldogs
1.1 3.4 5.8 6.9​
45​
7.2 12.8 14.12 17.14​
116​
L​
-71​
18-0-6​
Adelaide Oval​
26400​
Sat 11-Sep-2021 7:10 PM​



The Russell Ebert tribute game

R2
H​
Hawthorn
0.3 3.6 7.10 7.14​
56​
3.2 8.4 14.4 19.6​
120​
L​
-64​
0-0-2​
Adelaide Oval​
30267​
Sat 26-Mar-2022 7:10 PM​


Collingwood disaster after they "graciously" let us use the PBs the next game which was our home showdown.

R2
A​
Collingwood
3.3 5.4 8.7 9.10​
64​
7.2 13.5 15.7 21.9​
135​
L​
-71​
1-0-1​
M.C.G.​
60744​
Sat 25-Mar-2023 1:45 PM​


So today's 79 point loss is the 4th highest loss in the Hinkley era and the biggest score the oppo have kicked against us.

I'd rate it as the 3rd worst loss of the games above.

The 2021 PF loss is the worst, you don't lose a home PF like that.

The 2017 away showdown when the crows had 40 shots in the pour raining and 81 I50's to our 31, and 100 more disposals than us in miserable conditions, and if they kicked straight, they could have won by 20+ goals not by 11.18.
 
Most years under Hinkley's regime, Port has lost at least 1 game by 60 pts. Most of them have been away from home, but not since the 2021 PF loss to the bulldogs.

Most of them have been late in the season.

Brisbane today kicked the highest score by a non SA team at AO. 23.14 = 152 v 10.13 = 73 for a 79 pt loss.

These are the 10 goal losses since Hinkley took over


Rnd T Scoring F Scoring A R MW-D-L Venue Crowd Date
R22
A​
Fremantle
1.1 1.3 4.4 9.6​
60​
5.4 10.4 15.7 21.8​
134​
L​
-74​
12-0-9​
Subiaco​
35565​
Sat 24-Aug-2013 5:40 PM​

Smallest loss in 2014 was 26 pts to Sydney at AO Rd 20

R19
A​
Western Bulldogs
3.3 3.5 6.7 9.10​
64​
2.2 9.7 12.13 19.14​
128​
L​
-64​
8-0-10​
Docklands​
20590​
Sat 08-Aug-2015 2:10 PM​
R4
A​
Greater Western Sydney
3.1 5.3 7.6 9.11​
65​
6.6 14.10 16.18 22.19​
151
L​
-86
2-0-2​
Manuka Oval​
10028​
Sun 17-Apr-2016 1:10 PM​
R20
A​
Sydney
0.0 2.3 3.6 4.9​
33​
6.5 9.10 14.14 14.16​
100​
L​
-67​
9-0-10​
S.C.G.​
30204​
Sat 06-Aug-2016 1:45 PM​
R20
A​
Adelaide
1.1 1.3 4.4 7.4​
46​
1.9 5.15 12.18 18.22​
130​
L​
-84
11-0-8​
Adelaide Oval​
45028​
Sun 06-Aug-2017 4:10 PM​
R12
A​
Essendon
1.3 4.5 7.7 8.13​
61​
7.6 12.9 14.13 19.17​
131​
L​
-70​
6-0-5​
Docklands​
34022​
Sat 10-Jun-2017 7:25 PM​

Smallest loss in 2018 was Collingwood at MCG Rd 22 by 51pts and they kicked the highest score against us that year 115. 2018 was the 11-4 year we turned into 12-10 and missed finals.


R22
A​
North Melbourne
1.1 3.4 7.6 8.10​
58​
6.3 12.8 17.9 22.12​
144​
L​
-86
10-0-11​
Docklands​
17063​
Sat 17-Aug-2019 7:25 PM​


Even in Covid 2020 shortened quarters, on top every game, we managed a 10 goal loss.

R12
A​
Geelong
0.1 1.6 3.7 4.7​
31​
2.3 4.3 7.7 14.7​
91​
L​
-60​
9-0-3​
Carrara​
3378​
Fri 14-Aug-2020 7:50 PM​


PF
F​
Western Bulldogs
1.1 3.4 5.8 6.9​
45​
7.2 12.8 14.12 17.14​
116​
L​
-71​
18-0-6​
Adelaide Oval​
26400​
Sat 11-Sep-2021 7:10 PM​



The Russell Ebert tribute game

R2
H​
Hawthorn
0.3 3.6 7.10 7.14​
56​
3.2 8.4 14.4 19.6​
120​
L​
-64​
0-0-2​
Adelaide Oval​
30267​
Sat 26-Mar-2022 7:10 PM​


Collingwood disaster after they "graciously" let us use the PBs the next game which was our home showdown.

R2
A​
Collingwood
3.3 5.4 8.7 9.10​
64​
7.2 13.5 15.7 21.9​
135​
L​
-71​
1-0-1​
M.C.G.​
60744​
Sat 25-Mar-2023 1:45 PM​


So today's 79 point loss is the 4th highest loss in the Hinkley era and the biggest score the oppo have kicked against us.

I'd rate it as the 3rd worst loss of the games above.

The 2021 PF loss is the worst, you don't lose a home PF like that.

The 2017 away showdown when the crows had 40 shots in the pour raining and 81 I50's to our 31, and 100 more disposals than us in miserable conditions, and if they kicked straight, they could have won by 20+ goals not by 11.18.

The Ben 10 game against Norf stiff to miss the top 3.
 
From info in this thread - mainly thanks to this post #175 by Portragic who did the hard yards between 2013-21 years here is the breakdown of win-loss in the Hinkley era between 2013-23 years.

These figures included the stats where Ken didn't coach in 2013 in Hobart and lost to North who were bottom 10, and Melbourne in Alice Springs Basset coach when he had Covid and Melbourne finished 2nd and we lost.

These are classic flat track bullies type stats.

Home and Away 2013-2023

Top 4 15W - 45L = 25%

Top 8.. 38W - 74L = 34%
Bot 10 105W - 21L = 83%

Finals 5W - 7L = 42%

Total 148W - 102L = 59.2%

Ken's share at end 2023 was 148W - 100L = 59.6%

In finals
Top 4... 3W - 5L Wins Freo at Subi 2014, Gee at AO 20-21. Losses Gee 13, Haw 14, Rich 20 at AO, WB 21 at AO, Bris 23
5th-8th 2W - 2L Wins Col at MCG 2013, Rich at AO 14. Losses WCE at AO 17, GWS at AO 23
 
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I reckon Melbourne and Brisbane end up in the 8 and Geelong and GWS go out of it, so already in 2024 we are

2-4 for top 8
Wins Ess and Freo
Losses Coll, Carl, Melb, Bris

We will lose to Sydney at AO, and Carlton, Melbourne and Freo away so we will probably end the season 2-8 vs the top 8.
 
Anyone have any idea how many players Ken has coached? I counted 108 from the list of players that have played 1 or more games, so assume it will be around 120-130. I tried to go through the wiki annual playing lists but lost count and gave up.

Planning my stickerman sign for next week, and thinking of something like this, over 3 or 4 A3 Sheets:

Games Coached: 263
Players Coached: 120+
Wins vs Bottom 10: 83%
Wins vs Top 8: 34%
Wins vs Top 4: 25%
Knockout Finals: WL WWL - - L - - L L - L
Grand Finals: 0
Premierships: 0

We Exist To Win Premierships.

Chris, Matt, David.
How much more evidence do you need?
 
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Anyone have any idea how many players Ken has coached? I counted 108 from the list of players that have played 1 or more games, so assume it will be around 120-130. I tried to go through the wiki annual playing lists but lost count and gave up.

Planning my stickerman sign for next week, and thinking of something like this, over 3 or 4 A3 Sheets:

Games Coached: 263
Players Coached: 120+
Wins vs Bottom 10: 83%
Wins vs Top 8: 34%
Wins vs Top 4: 25%
Knockout Finals: WL WWL - - L - - L L - LL
Grand Finals: 0
Premierships: 0

We Exist To Win Premierships.

Chris, Matt, David.
How much more evidence do you need?
Our finals record is 5-7. If you dont win a flag the knock always looks shit.

Last decade
WL WWL L (3-3)

This decade
WL WL LL (2-4)
 

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