'08 Bulldogs vs '07 Cats

[X_box_X]

Not for one minute do I expect that we'll match Geelong's premiership performance this year, but my old man and I started a conversation the other day that turned interesting.

My Dad had asked me, "do you think we have the ability to do a Geelong?"

I knew exactly what he was talking about, and after having a couple of seconds to ponder, I answered, "yeah, we have the potential, but it would be very unlikely."

The conversation paused there for a couple of minutes, but during that time my brain was working overtime. I was considering ways in which we could emulate Geelong's 2007 heroics, noting we have a similar side to them on paper, and if every player steps up and has a better 2008 season than they had in 2007, we'll be well on our way.

I continued the conversation a couple of minutes later, asking my Dad, "Which Geelong player does Brad Johnson remind you of?"

Immediately, my Dad answered, "Steve Johnson", even though I was thinking Paul Chapman. My Dad disagreed with me, saying Chapman would be a better comparison for Cooney, and I disagreed with my Dad saying Steve Johnson would be a better comparison for Murphy.

We compared our players to Geelong's of '07 for a good half an hour, and I thought it would be a good discussion for me to start on this forum.

Everyone get involved, which of our players compares best to the 2007 Geelong premiership team?

2007 GRAND FINAL TEAM
B: Tom Harley, Matthew Scarlett, Josh Hunt
HB: Andrew Mackie, Darren Milburn, David Wojcinski
C: Joel Corey, Jimmy Bartel, Corey Enright
HF: Steve Johnson, Cameron Mooney, Joel Selwood
F: Paul Chapman, Nathan Ablett, Mathew Stokes
FOLL: Brad Ottens, Cameron Ling, Gary Ablett Jr.
Interchange: Steven King, Shannon Byrnes, James Kelly, Max Rooke

Tom Harley: Tom Williams
Matthew Scarlett: Brian Harris
Josh Hunt: Lindsay Gilbee
Andrew Mackie: Andreis Everitt
Darren Milburn: Dale Morris
David Wojcinski: Farren Ray
Joel Corey: Matthew Boyd
Jimmy Bartel: Daniel Cross
Corey Enright: Adam Cooney
Steve Johnson: Robert Murphy
Cameron Mooney: Will Minson
Joel Selwood: Daniel Giansiracusa
Paul Chapman: Brad Johnson
Nathan Ablett: Scott Welsh
Matthew Stokes: Shaun Higgins
Brad Ottens: Ben Hudson
Cameron Ling: Scott West
Gary Ablett: Ryan Griffen
Steven King: Wayde Skipper
Shannon Byrnes: Nathan Eagleton
James Kelly: Mitch Hahn
Max Rooke: Tim Callan

Go on, get involved.

 

[tin can sam]

The Bulldogs don't have the hardness over the footy to do what Geelong did, I think the two teams are very different, as we don't have the pace you do, and you don't have the strength we do.

also, key forwards and defenders are clearly in Geelong's favour.

Saying that though, the Bulldogs need to alter their game plan to play to their strengths, I didn't see alot of 2007 so I didn't see what happened this year to cause you guys problems, but I don't see any reason why you can't play to your strengths again and challenge the top 8, maybe even top 4, but without tough, big bodied midfielders, doing a Geelong in 2008 is very very unlikely.

 

[western dog]

Not for one minute do I expect that we'll match Geelong's premiership performance this year, but my old man and I started a conversation the other day that turned interesting.

My Dad had asked me, "do you think we have the ability to do a Geelong?"

I knew exactly what he was talking about, and after having a couple of seconds to ponder, I answered, "yeah, we have the potential, but it would be very unlikely."

The conversation paused there for a couple of minutes, but during that time my brain was working overtime. I was considering ways in which we could emulate Geelong's 2007 heroics, noting we have a similar side to them on paper, and if every player steps up and has a better 2008 season than they had in 2007, we'll be well on our way.

I continued the conversation a couple of minutes later, asking my Dad, "Which Geelong player does Brad Johnson remind you of?"

Immediately, my Dad answered, "Steve Johnson", even though I was thinking Paul Chapman. My Dad disagreed with me, saying Chapman would be a better comparison for Cooney, and I disagreed with my Dad saying Steve Johnson would be a better comparison for Murphy.

We compared our players to Geelong's of '07 for a good half an hour, and I thought it would be a good discussion for me to start on this forum.

Everyone get involved, which of our players compares best to the 2007 Geelong premiership team?

2007 GRAND FINAL TEAM
B: Tom Harley, Matthew Scarlett, Josh Hunt
HB: Andrew Mackie, Darren Milburn, David Wojcinski
C: Joel Corey, Jimmy Bartel, Corey Enright
HF: Steve Johnson, Cameron Mooney, Joel Selwood
F: Paul Chapman, Nathan Ablett, Mathew Stokes
FOLL: Brad Ottens, Cameron Ling, Gary Ablett Jr.
Interchange: Steven King, Shannon Byrnes, James Kelly, Max Rooke

Tom Harley: Tom Williams In 3 years
Matthew Scarlett: Brian Harris ok
Josh Hunt: Lindsay Gilbee ok
Andrew Mackie: Andreis Everitt In years to come maybe
Darren Milburn: Dale Morris unsure
David Wojcinski: Farren Ray no
Joel Corey: Matthew Boyd ok
Jimmy Bartel: Daniel Cross Daniel still needs some way to go here
Corey Enright: Adam Cooney ok
Steve Johnson: Robert Murphy ok
Cameron Mooney: Will Minson drawing a very long bow there
Joel Selwood: Daniel Giansiracusa if Guido played consistently
Paul Chapman: Brad Johnson ok
Nathan Ablett: Scott Welsh if Welsh can stay on the park
Matthew Stokes: Shaun Higgins consistency needed
Brad Ottens: Ben Hudson yet to see how Hudson will influence team
Cameron Ling: Scott West Westy does not kick goals
Gary Ablett: Ryan Griffen Griff has yet to reach near these levels
Steven King: Wayde Skipper no
Shannon Byrnes: Nathan Eagleton unsure
James Kelly: Mitch Hahn unsure
Max Rooke: Tim Callan Callan could not get a game at Geelong!

Go on, get involved.

In summary I could only come up with 6-7 players that I could say with confidence could match pound for pound with Geelong 07. In saying that I do believe there is a lot of upside with our boys however they would have to play out of their skins all season and have a lot of luck with injury to get close to emulating what Geelong did last year. Our time will come again but I would not get too carried away just yet.

 

[X_box_X]

That's what it's all about, though - in regards to "playing out of our skins". We'd need to do exactly that, and most would say Geelong was able to do that last year.

Agree that Westy doesn't kick the amount of goals Ling does. In hindsight, it wasn't the best comparison, but I'm not sure who Westy most compares to at Geelong.

 

[#1 Dogs Fan]

It comes down to the back line in my opinion. Our offensive game plan when up and running is pretty much unstoppable. Look back over the years and see what defense structure previous grand final winning teams have had lined up.
I remember EJ or Sutton once saying you cant win a premiership if you don't have a very good back line.
Geelong always had a start back line and a star midfield. They got things right in 08 because every player worked very hard and for each other. Like the geelong supporter that said they are as good as an offensive team what we are but we don't have the defensive expect to our game to match them. I totally agree and that is what it comes down to.

In my playing years in football i have always been taught its not what you when you have the footy its what you do when you don't.

Our attacking game is very good when on song but we have lacked in the defense pressure for about 5 years now but i have a feeling all that will change in 08. I don't expect it to reach the heights of Sydney in 05 and 06 or Geelong in 07 but it will change dramatically.

In my opinion i think we are still another year of winning a premiership but i will love to be proven wrong.
What is certain though is we will make the top 8 in 08 and pencil that in now.

 

[fightclub]

I like your passion x_box_x and its an interesting post, but its impossible to line a whole side up against another side. You end up with alot of "kinda like...." and "could play like..." etc etc.
The bullies had an idea to be different and go with pace. It worked for a year in 2006 as it caught the other sides out. With luck, it could almost have been an even better year than it was. The other teams worked you out though for 2007 and coupled with that, the brainstrusts went too far with the whole pace thing and the smaller bodies lacked strength to get the ball. No use being quick if you aint got it !!!
I love watching you guys play though and I hope you get the mix right this year and work your way back up into the finals.

 

[Pigdog]

X box,

Would be interested to see you put a combined team together of the 2 clubs.

It is made harder as many of the Geelong players had career best years last years whereas we performed pretty poorly, but it would make some interesting reading.

At a guess I would think we would be lucky to get 6 to 8 in the team of 22.

If you do give it a crack can you pick it on a rd 1 team next year so pick the best players now not players on potential.

 

[Mr. Walker]

Remember Geelong lost their first game for 2007. If we really want to emulate them then McDougall must play in Round 1.

 

[BABYBOMBERS2007]

I think that the Bulldogs could very well win the premiership this year. Maybe not be as dominant as Geelong last year but if their injuries keep to a mininum I think that they will definitely make the top 4 and be a big threat. The addition of Hudson and Welsh is big plus the players coming back from injuries. If they play like they did in 2006 then they will surely be a massive force.

 

[kookadog]

Geelong did have 9 AA's?,
Could we have 9 AA's in 08?

Johnson
West
Cross
Gilbee
Harris
Morris
Murphy
Cooney
Griffen

It'd be an exciting year.

 

[murphy2bedabest]

Geelong did have 9 AA's?,
Could we have 9 AA's in 08?

Johnson
West
Cross
Gilbee
Harris
Morris
Murphy
Cooney
Griffen
It'd be an exciting year.

If these 2 step up this year, play in the middle which i think they will, and make AA, the dogs will come very close to winning the premirship.

There is along way to go in 2008 to make any calls, but in a way i think we can do a Geelong in way, in that we will come back from a poor 2007, will we win the premirship.....? only time will tell.

 

[Nineteen_Fifty_Four]

I just don't get how you can all be so optimnstic. Im hoping we can make the finals. Geelong had a bad year in 06 but no way near as bad as we were in the last 6 games of 07. We were pitiful and you don't go from that bad to playing out your skins and winning flags. Just doesnt happen. Plus Geelong had major internal problems in 06 big problems from what I heard were pretty bad and unfortunately it doesnt seem we had any problems quite remotely like theirs. Our review found maybe our coach had too many responsibilities he couldnt handle and that we didnt have enough players capable of playing good football. Too compare us to Geelong is crazy and not helpful. Youve got to be positive and optimistic but at what point does talking up fairy tales actually interrupt and hinder the process of hard work and effort.

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

I am under the impression that Geelong's change of fortune from 06 to 07 was mostly due to the players leadership group making a strong resolve to change to culture of the team. From what I have read they became a real team off the ground as well as on it. I have heard that in 07 there were several divisions within the Bulldogs - ie. maybe the older guys did not socialise with the younger guys.
I don't think there is a hell of a lot seperating all the teams in the AFL. If everyone in a team can lift 5% then they have a real shot at being successful and maybe that 'team' culture that Geelong fostered was the reason they performed so well in 07.

 

[Mofra]

Plus Geelong had major internal problems in 06 big problems from what I heard were pretty bad and unfortunately it doesnt seem we had any problems quite remotely like theirs.

My mail is quite different, and we are still working out internal issues. When volunteers at the club are being told to "keep your heads down" you know the air isn't yet clear.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Unlike our last seven games in '07, Geelong came home quite strongly in the end of the year and only just missed out on the finals.

Still in saying that, the games against Geelong in '06 were the best games all year. I would be happy to see the dogs play with the same intensity and passion again.

 

[X_box_X]

X box,

Would be interested to see you put a combined team together of the 2 clubs.

It is made harder as many of the Geelong players had career best years last years whereas we performed pretty poorly, but it would make some interesting reading.

At a guess I would think we would be lucky to get 6 to 8 in the team of 22.

If you do give it a crack can you pick it on a rd 1 team next year so pick the best players now not players on potential.

For the sake of it:

BA: Harris - Scarlett - Milburn
HB: Mackie - Egan - Gilbee
CE: Corey - Bartel - Cross
HF: Chapman - Mooney - Cooney
FO: S. Johnson - Ottens - B. Johnson
RU: Hudson - West - Ablett
INT: Murphy, Boyd, Enright, Selwood

Did I miss anyone by mistake?

 

[Skinner Reserve]

Tom Harley: Tom Williams

You lost me at the start.

 

[Pigdog]

For the sake of it:

BA: Harris - Scarlett - Milburn
HB: Mackie - Egan - Gilbee
CE: Corey - Bartel - Cross
HF: Chapman - Mooney - Cooney
FO: S. Johnson - Ottens - B. Johnson
RU: Hudson - West - Ablett
INT: Murphy, Boyd, Enright, Selwood

Did I miss anyone by mistake?

Nah, I think you have done a pretty good job. I would think you would have to include Ling, but he is probably the only one you have missed.

You would also probably have an extra tall on the bench for team balance.

 

[X_box_X]

Ling for Selwood, I agree. Definitely missed Ling.

Hard to include another tall. Murphy plays tall - three talls in the back line, a ruckman, two genuine talls in the forward line plus another two who play tall.

 

[Nineteen_Fifty_Four]

My mail is quite different, and we are still working out internal issues. When volunteers at the club are being told to "keep your heads down" you know the air isn't yet clear.

Care to elaborate or are we makeing excuses before the seasons already begun.

 

[tin can sam]

Ling for Selwood, I agree. Definitely missed Ling.

Hard to include another tall. Murphy plays tall - three talls in the back line, a ruckman, two genuine talls in the forward line plus another two who play tall.

you missed Harley, he's our captain and would be in the team.

 

[X_box_X]

you missed Harley, he's our captain and would be in the team.

Possibly. Would you have him ahead of Mackie in the side I have listed? I could also argue I left out Morris, but Milburn is coming off an All-Australian season, and Morris is coming off a huge downer.

I thought Mackie had a better season than Harley did, and his run will be handy in this side when you consider there are already three key defenders in the back line.

 

[FrediKanoute]

i think that there are lots of differences and similarities. It is too easy to say "the Doggies will be the 2008 Geelong"......that's almost as problematic as people in 2007 say Doggies should make the top 4. The similarity is that the Doggies like Geelong, UNDERPERFORMED in 2007 and like Geelong had some off field issues which may or may not be resolved. However a BIG difference between the 2 sides are the make up of the teams. Geelong last year were physically bigger and had more inside players prepared to go and get their own ball. The Doggies whilst moving in this direction are yet to be really proven in this area so it remains as a question mark.

 

[flight23]

great thread and hasn't been hijacked by morons WOW

actual conversations between dogs and cats, good to see

 

[LondonBulldog]

Cross, West and Boyd would not make a combined Geelong / Bulldogs team. They try there hardest but are not up to the physical strength and intensity of Geelongs best on-ballers.