Player Watch #13 Clayton Oliver – UNPRECEDENTED 4x B&F, 3x AA, 2x AFLCA Winner and Premiership Player (formerly)

[Scythe94]

OK, I've removed about three pages of posts.

Please do not use this thread to speculate about Oliver's private life – medical or otherwise.

Regardless of the veracity of your rumour, or what you know/have heard, if it's not public knowledge, just don't post it.

I don't want to turn this place into Demonland, but if you can't see the potential harm that this sort of rumour-spreading can cause (regardless of your intentions), then perhaps it's best if you take a bit of a break.

Thanks.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Reading the last dozen posts is about as depressing as one can get.
Alot of you guys have already written us off in '24 and its only Jan.FFS
Petty is back training as is Brayshaw all the players except Oliver look pumped.
Melksham could be back earlier than expected but he is replaceable.
The first 5 games are crucial. Must beat the Swans and get off to a flying start.
Im just worried that Grundy and even JJ might play blinders against us. OOPS

Don't think anyone is writing us off until at least Round 8. But i see the danger signs with the offseason we've had and the end of last season without adding much at all or changing things up in the coaching department. With the offseason we've had, i think there is a danger if we get off to a bad start to the season, we could absolutely fall in a heap. Again, not saying it WILL happen, but a definite possibility. I do think the Swans game is important. Potentially missing a few key players and playing away at a ground we've struggled at. If we get toweled up, i can absolutely see us fall in a heap quickly.

 

[Demon Attack]

We’re getting off topic, but, it’s the straight sets that’s bloody awful. If we were talking back to back prelims after a flag the scrutiny wouldn’t be as intense.

Agree. Train home after the Blues final was the absolute worst. Couldn't process anything I was so gutted.

 

[Jamurp]

We’re getting off topic, but, it’s the straight sets that’s bloody awful. If we were talking back to back prelims after a flag the scrutiny wouldn’t be as intense.

I just want us to make a grand final, so I can go to the G and watch us, we couldn't even manage that, let alone win another, campaigners.

 

[Bangkok Knights]

Agree. Train home after the Blues final was the absolute worst. Couldn't process anything I was so gutted.

Probably one of our worst loses in several years albeit by 2 lousy points.
Never will forget the look on Voss' face at the presser. He was literally in shock.
Didnt know whether to smile or laugh.
Melbourne totally Melbourned it.
Atleast we dont get belted in finals.
We literally had a VFL fwd line last Sept losing by 7 and 2 points.
Other teams would have crumbled.

 

[markm106]

Probably one of our worst loses in several years albeit by 2 lousy points.
Never will forget the look on Voss' face at the presser. He was literally in shock.
Didnt know whether to smile or laugh.
Melbourne totally Melbourned it.
Atleast we dont get belted in finals.
We literally had a VFL fwd line last Sept losing by 7 and 2 points.
Other teams would have crumbled.

Yeah the forward line was a huge part of us not getting anywhere in finals. No Melksham. No Petty. Fritsch playing injured. No JVR second final. BBB injured all year. Tmac underdone. Gus getting injured meaning. Trac would need to play more mid. I thought post the Blues loss it was no wonder we didn’t get anywhere.

 

[thecuzsays]

we r going into 2024 with ben brown

50

Ben Brown

Age

31

Ht

200cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

2.2

5star

D

7.9

2star

K

6.3

3star

HB

1.6

1star

M

3.7

4star

T

0.9

2star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.2

4star

and tmac. 5th ceiling . 10th floor

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Lol yes how weird we are focused on what's happened in the last year, let's pretend it's still 2021 and we haven't gone out in straight sets twice

That's fine mate, but you're smart enough to know that doesn't all rest on Clayton.

Great player, hope he gets healthy and back to his best.

 

[Topkent]

That's fine mate, but you're smart enough to know that doesn't all rest on Clayton.

Great player, hope he gets healthy and back to his best.

Course not mate, but if people are unhappy with the way we played I'd suggest starting off with the players who had the footy the most in their hands going inside 50 and he was the number 1 culprit for that.

 

[SugarHealey]

I feel we're a Gus head knock away from our midfield being cooked.

I'm starting to wonder what our mids have been cooking up, these past 2 backend of seasons.?
Not to mention, May and Langers smoking thir own Rss wipes.

If we fail again to re-become 'the hunters', in our minds eye... then its more of the same, sliding down.

 

[SugarHealey]

I think those writing off a guy who was won 4 bf's and arguably the best dee in the last 40 years will have egg on their faces. The guy was one of our best performing players in the finals despite horrendous preparation. I think it's fair to say that he won't be right for the early rounds of the season but we hopefully don't need him then.

I don't think many at all have written Oli 'Off'... or they would all be deemanding we trade him out.

It hasn't got to that dan. But, the writing is on the wall for Oli, his mates in arms, and the Club, to get this write... before it becomes a write off.

 

[SugarHealey]

Yeah but that has nothing to do with how good they are as players, so Oliver's accolades mean nothing in that context except that he will likely get more chances than most.

So far we've seen very little evidence to suggest he is willing to adhere to the club's standards since October.

I for one hope the club does blood teasts on Oli, every week, and a day prior to selection meetings.
If he fails, he should be pulled from the team.

 

[SugarHealey]

We’re getting off topic, but, it’s the straight sets that’s bloody awful. If we were talking back to back prelims after a flag the scrutiny wouldn’t be as intense.

Oliver criticised for unseen act of sportsmanship: ‘Take him out’

The Demons midfielder missed a ‘chance’ in the dying minutes of their semi-final, instead making a curious decision.

7news.com.au

 

[The Dr]

I'm starting to wonder what our mids have been cooking up, these past 2 backend of seasons.?
Not to mention, May and Langers smoking thir own Rss wipes.

If we fail again to re-become 'the hunters', in our minds eye... then its more of the same, sliding down.

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[danster168]

Oliver 8th favourite for the brownlow. I think everyone is overreacting.

 

[Toump Ass]

Oliver criticised for unseen act of sportsmanship: ‘Take him out’

The Demons midfielder missed a ‘chance’ in the dying minutes of their semi-final, instead making a curious decision.

7news.com.au

One of the most pathetic things ever witnessed on a football field, that and Captain Max Gawn punching through Oliver's game-winning clutch goal.

****ing bunch of flogs.

 

[PerfectFooty]

Oliver's highest finish in a brownlow is third. Equal with inaccurate thighs Petracca and slow guts Brayshaw

 

[Demon 16]

Oliver 8th favourite for the brownlow. I think everyone is overreacting.

What odds can we get for him not winning it!?..

 

[dazzledavey36]

From memory we won most of our games when he wasnt playing?
Even if Oliver returns it seems wishful thinking he will ever be the same explosive player of past seasons.

Correct.

We won more games then losses when Oliver was out with injury.

In that time we also completely changed the dynamic of our midfield set up and became a bit unpredictable with Sparrow and Rivers spending more minutes in there.

It was the most exciting I've seen our midfield play in a while.

Once Oliver came into the team we became one dimensional very predictable with the constant blind bombing inside forward 50 which Oliver was one of our most culprits as highlighted by On The Couch in the first final against Collingwood. Absolutely butchered it that night.

 

[Lord Nev]

For those playing at home, here's some other individual players and their affect on our wins and losses:

We had a higher winning % without Gawn.
We won 10% more games with Brown than without.
We won 22% MORE GAMES without Fritsch.

I dunno, but I reckon looking at one player in terms of wins and losses is perhaps not great analysis.

Of course, the bombs were still there, as much as they were in 2021, but clearly that's not just an Oliver issue.

We were rated 14th for goals per inside 50, 14th for scores per inside 50 and 15th for scoring shots per inside 50, and given Clarry missed 10 games it's a bit silly to be pinning that part of the game on him. It's a coaching issue.

 

[Lord Nev]

And just in addition to the above, here's just how bad our kicking was in 2023:

 

[Lord Nev]

Also, if we're talking 'On The Couch' analysis, here's Garry talking about how bad our forward entries were during 6 weeks where Oliver didn't even play.

Lyon firstly pointed to statistics provided by Champion Data to support his points.

Against the Giants, the Demons had 73 inside 50s to the Giants’ 46 and won 14 centre bounce clearances to two. But from the Dees’ 64 kicks inside 50, they took just four marks for the entire game.


“Conditions were wet and slippery I know, but this is not a one-off,” Lyon said before revealing the Demons were ranked 17th in the competition across the past six weeks for retaining kicks inside 50.

Damning proof exposes Dee-saster

 

[DemonZombie_001]

Thanks Lord Nev,

I totally forgot about that GWS game and you brought that experience rushing back. 2023 had some of the worst games even the worst 40+ win I vaguely remember.

 

[stEdy]

The players are clearly coached to take territory going inside 50 instead of trying to lace out a pass.

There's some merit to that approach - the problem is we do it way, way too often and the defenders know where it's going and sag off and beat our VFL level forwards come the 2023 finals.

The coaching has given our players an easy out. Just bomb it if there's no available targets. This mindset needs to shift as it also dis-incentivises the forwards from actually working up the ground to provide a target.

 

[PerfectFooty]

The players are clearly coached to take territory going inside 50 instead of trying to lace out a pass.

There's some merit to that approach - the problem is we do it way, way too often and the defenders know where it's going and sag off and beat our VFL level forwards come the 2023 finals.

The coaching has given our players an easy out. Just bomb it if there's no available targets. This mindset needs to shift as it also dis-incentivises the forwards from actually working up the ground to provide a target.

I wouldn't just limit our players to just being an inside 50 problem in terms of taking territory. Our movement out of defence also consists of bombing it long down the line. Its become very predictable. Last season in particular I noticed more than ever the opposition getting more repeat entries then in previous seasons. The first quarter of the round 22 game against Carlton we we're hopeless (but not punished enough) at getting the ball out in any effective way. The first quarter of the first final was also bad, but of course the narrative of that final later became the inaccuracies

In short, all of our team over relies on distance over good disposal

 

[stEdy]

I wouldn't just limit our players to just being an inside 50 problem in terms of taking territory. Our movement out of defence also consists of bombing it long down the line. Its become very predictable. Last season in particular I noticed more than ever the opposition getting more repeat entries then in previous seasons. The first quarter of the round 22 game against Carlton we we're hopeless (but not punished enough) at getting the ball out in any effective way. The first quarter of the first final was also bad, but of course the narrative of that final later became the inaccuracies

In short, all of our team over relies on distance over good disposal

Largely agree with all of that.

Our forwards aren't encouraged to roll the dice and get out the back either - so when we are banging it long it's to a pack of stationary players.

At times in 2023 you saw we were consciously trying to move the ball in a more dynamic way, sometimes we even looked quite good doing it. But under pressure we reverted back to old habits and nobody wanted to take the responsibility of trying to hit the pass.