1990 AFL Bid - Unanswered Questions

[PortAdel1870]

Hi guys! With the 1990 AFL bid saga occurring a bit before my time on Earth, I'm just wondering if anyone could help answer a few questions.

1. Did members a vote actually take place or was it squashed by the legal injunctions?
2. Despite the 1990 Heads of Agreement securing the "prison bars" and black and white colours, what changed before 1994?
3. What was the SANFL responses to letters from Norwood and Port Adelaide, in 1983 and 1985 respectively, informing the SANFL they wished to join a national competition (as stated in the new book Destiny)?
4. Did the Port Adelaide Council approve the move for Port Adelaide to use Alberton Oval for home games?
5. Which SANFL club, outside of Norwood and Port Adelaide, approached the VFL about joining the VFL in 1989?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

There is a thread called- Destiny by Norman Ashton: How Port Adelaide put itself on the national stage. Its about a book released a few weeks ago and as I post, the last post in the thread was at 5.24pm today.

I suspect all your questions are accurately answered in this book given the extensive work down by a professor of History and Classics.

 

[raptalia]

Sounds like an interesting book. I hope it captures the hostility that existed between certain SANFL figures and the Port hierarchy at the time. People would not believe some of the petty issues that existed. Max Basheer cops a lot of flak but there were others who were far more outspoken and vitriolic than Max Basheer. Max Basheer was doing the job he was appointed to do and if he had not opposed our bid he would have been lynched by the club delegates. It is worth mentioning that the Port Adelaide SANFL delegate was also opposed to our bid and spoke against it at the member's meeting. People like Kris Grant, Jamie Coppins, Doug Thomas racked up the frequent flyer points between Adelaide and Melbourne trying to stop our bid. Those were interesting times for sure and I think some of the ill feeling and the grudges still exist today.

I cannot answer any of the questions but I do recall that Bruce Abernethy and Michelangelo Rucci wrote a book telling the Port Adelaide side of the story and it was published in the early nineties. Maybe both books might have the answers.

 

[CharlieKelly]

PoRt PoWeR FoOtBaLL cLuB, est. 1994/1995/1996

(And yet, hate us for the events of 1990...)

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Hi guys! With the 1990 AFL bid saga occurring a bit before my time on Earth, I'm just wondering if anyone could help answer a few questions.

1. Did members a vote actually take place or was it squashed by the legal injunctions?
2. Despite the 1990 Heads of Agreement securing the "prison bars" and black and white colours, what changed before 1994?
3. What was the SANFL responses to letters from Norwood and Port Adelaide, in 1983 and 1985 respectively, informing the SANFL they wished to join a national competition (as stated in the new book Destiny)?
4. Did the Port Adelaide Council approve the move for Port Adelaide to use Alberton Oval for home games?
5. Which SANFL club, outside of Norwood and Port Adelaide, approached the VFL about joining the VFL in 1989?

Some fading memories, some guesswork.

1. I don't remember a vote because there was nothing to vote on. There was a Member's information night where we were told about the agreement and it was a done deal as far as the club was concerned. We would be wearing black and white but would not be the Magpies in the AFL. There was going to be a vote on a new logo. Funnily enough the crows was mentioned (colour in the white bits) as were Pirates and Knights (the Black Knights). Port made journos pay to become member's to attend the information night.

2. Collingwood. One of the stumbling blocks before all the legal injunctions was there was no way they would agree to another black and white team in the AFL. Along with other concerns that scuttled the first AFL club vote, along with Collingwood fomenting some discontent we fell just short of the required numbers. The second bid was going to ensure a much smoother path to the highest stage.

3. Who knows. Probably something along the lines of That's nice, now leave it to us to sort out.

4. The use of Alberton Oval only came up as a costing analysis by the AFL and Port after the injunctions came in and the sanfl made it clear Footy Park was not going to be made available. There were some preliminary discussions with the SACA for the use of Adelaide Oval. Either option never moved beyond a preliminary thought bubble. Footy Park was the preferred option.

5. No real information on this but North Adelaide were full of self-importance around that time. Glenelg too but they were always a more toe the line kind of organisation.

 

[PortAdel1870]

There is a thread called- Destiny by Norman Ashton: How Port Adelaide put itself on the national stage. Its about a book released a few weeks ago and as I post, the last post in the thread was at 5.24pm today.

I suspect all your questions are accurately answered in this book given the extensive work down by a professor of History and Classics.

Yes it is a brilliant book I have just finished it. Still a few questions though!

 

[PortAdel1870]

Some fading memories, some guesswork.

1. I don't remember a vote because there was nothing to vote on. There was a Member's information night where we were told about the agreement and it was a done deal as far as the club was concerned. We would be wearing black and white but would not be the Magpies in the AFL. There was going to be a vote on a new logo. Funnily enough the crows was mentioned (colour in the white bits) as were Pirates and Knights (the Black Knights). Port made journos pay to become member's to attend the information night.

2. Collingwood. One of the stumbling blocks before all the legal injunctions was there was no way they would agree to another black and white team in the AFL. Along with other concerns that scuttled the first AFL club vote, along with Collingwood fomenting some discontent we fell just short of the required numbers. The second bid was going to ensure a much smoother path to the highest stage.

3. Who knows. Probably something along the lines of That's nice, now leave it to us to sort out.

4. The use of Alberton Oval only came up as a costing analysis by the AFL and Port after the injunctions came in and the sanfl made it clear Footy Park was not going to be made available. There were some preliminary discussions with the SACA for the use of Adelaide Oval. Either option never moved beyond a preliminary thought bubble. Footy Park was the preferred option.

5. No real information on this but North Adelaide were full of self-importance around that time. Glenelg too but they were always a more toe the line kind of organisation.

Thank you very much for this. I was under the impression that the Heads of Agreement was subject to the AFL clubs voting in favour of the move and Port Adelaide's own members.

"The only thing that can stop us now is the AFL directors or our own members!" - Bruce Weber, per Destiny.

Also, I don't understand why we had to please Collingwood so much in the bid for the second license as by 1994 there was no need for the clubs to vote as the AFL Commission was established.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Thank you very much for this. I was under the impression that the Heads of Agreement was subject to the AFL clubs voting in favour of the move and Port Adelaide's own members.

"The only thing that can stop us now is the AFL directors or our own members!" - Bruce Weber, per Destiny.

Also, I don't understand why we had to please Collingwood so much in the bid for the second license as by 1994 there was no need for the clubs to vote as the AFL Commission was established.

Politics.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Thank you very much for this. I was under the impression that the Heads of Agreement was subject to the AFL clubs voting in favour of the move and Port Adelaide's own members.

"The only thing that can stop us now is the AFL directors or our own members!" - Bruce Weber, per Destiny.

Also, I don't understand why we had to please Collingwood so much in the bid for the second license as by 1994 there was no need for the clubs to vote as the AFL Commission was established.

I wrote a potted history of the AFL bid in a review of the 1990 premiership year. You might know all of this already but it is in the linked thread

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/port-adelaide-premiership-years.1047231/

 

[ozph1870]

I remember Richmond being campaigners at some stage too..

Also Ross Oakley when talking about Glenelg, they were the most outspoken about ports not joining the AFL, but behind the scenes they were what about us.. campaigners, black and yellow campaigners everywhere...

 

[NoddyHolder]

I'd never stake my house on my own memory but I was a member at the time and have a memory of voting to proceed with the bid to enter the afl.

 

[El Zorro]

Some fading memories, some guesswork.

1. I don't remember a vote because there was nothing to vote on. There was a Member's information night where we were told about the agreement and it was a done deal as far as the club was concerned. We would be wearing black and white but would not be the Magpies in the AFL. There was going to be a vote on a new logo. Funnily enough the crows was mentioned (colour in the white bits) as were Pirates and Knights (the Black Knights). Port made journos pay to become member's to attend the information night.

2. Collingwood. One of the stumbling blocks before all the legal injunctions was there was no way they would agree to another black and white team in the AFL. Along with other concerns that scuttled the first AFL club vote, along with Collingwood fomenting some discontent we fell just short of the required numbers. The second bid was going to ensure a much smoother path to the highest stage.

3. Who knows. Probably something along the lines of That's nice, now leave it to us to sort out.

4. The use of Alberton Oval only came up as a costing analysis by the AFL and Port after the injunctions came in and the sanfl made it clear Footy Park was not going to be made available. There were some preliminary discussions with the SACA for the use of Adelaide Oval. Either option never moved beyond a preliminary thought bubble. Footy Park was the preferred option.

5. No real information on this but North Adelaide were full of self-importance around that time. Glenelg too but they were always a more toe the line kind of organisation.

If we had been first, Crows would've been the perfect moniker as it's only a reasonably small change from Magpies. Plus, we could've added one of the state colours (red?) to black and white for the jumper.

 

[Smithy7]

https://www.spreaker.com/user/portf...utm_medium=desktop_app&utm_source=desktop_app

Listen from 29.50 ..Our Rick & Brian Cunningham Port CEO, at the time, talks about Port going into the AFL

 

[GremioPower]

If we had been first, Crows would've been the perfect moniker as it's only a reasonably small change from Magpies. Plus, we could've added one of the state colours (red?) to black and white for the jumper.

Either yellow or blue. Red would clash with St. Kilda.

 

[Spadge]

this discussion disturbs me... Port Adelaide Crows? with yellow blue or red in our colours

carn

 

[Portology]

If Bucky had been at the helm instead of Weber, would he have gone “behind the scenes” and launched a surprise bid as Bruce felt he had to do, or would he have taken a less confrontational path, for example telling Oakley something like that we were all in, as long as he could bring the SANFL “with us” somehow/in done timeframe?

Bucky’s professionalism and “diplomacy” got us over the line in 1994 miles ahead of other bidders, but I just don’t think that approach would have worked for making a break out of the SANFL in the first place.

While they’re still alive I’d like to hear both Bucky’s and Max Basheer’s thoughts on *that* historical counterfactual: was there any chance of Port taking an AFL-solicited bid to the SANFL and getting it treated seriously? Ironically, someone from Port regarded by all as being of unimpeachable character like Bucky may be the just sort of person to get Max talking openly and honestly while he still has the chance to choose to do so. Or not, in which case we’ve confirmed some of the things we’ve always thought about Max, and *that* will be his legacy


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[Dandiprat]

I remember Richmond being campaigners at some stage too..

Also Ross Oakley when talking about Glenelg, they were the most outspoken about ports not joining the AFL, but behind the scenes they were what about us.. campaigners, black and yellow campaigners everywhere...

I thought I read somewhere once that Richmond were our only allies in Victoria, and that Collingwood and Footscray really didn’t want us in the AFL.

 

[El Zorro]

Either yellow or blue. Red would clash with St. Kilda.

Nobody gives a shit about St kilda.

 

[El Zorro]

this discussion disturbs me... Port Adelaide Crows? with yellow blue or red in our colours

carn

Cos da powa in silver and teal it's a lot better! Don't forget that in that parallel universe the Crows never exist.

 

[Spadge]

Cos da powa in silver and teal it's a lot better! Don't forget that in that parallel universe the Crows never exist.

i get that.. sliding doors and all..
just makes me uncomfortable now..lol

 

[wannabejack]

I thought I read somewhere once that Richmond were our only allies in Victoria, and that Collingwood and Footscray really didn’t want us in the AFL.

"the 14 AFL Clubs' Directors voted 13-1 (Richmond Football Club against) in favour of the Adelaide Football Club application, thereby authorising the AFL Commission to 'seal a deal' with the SANFL"
If Richmond new what would happen in 2017 they may have changed their vote.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I thought I read somewhere once that Richmond were our only allies in Victoria, and that Collingwood and Footscray really didn’t want us in the AFL.

Collingwood and Footscray banded together to block us after the Heads of Agreement had been signed. Richmond isnt mentioned in the 13-1 vote in the link below but they were the 1 voting against the SANFL team. 13 years ago I typed up a big chunk of Chapter 20 “The End of The Cold War”
from Gary Linnell’s, FOOTBALL LTD The Inside Story of the AFL is a great book that documents the growth of the suburban VFL into the AFL. It’s the best footy book I’ve read and is a great reference source.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/why-did-we-join-the-afl.208042/page-2#post-4157625

and the post above it that Ford quoted from John Devaney's Full Points Footy is worth a read as well. It talks about the 2,000 people attending the meeting after all hell broke lose.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/why-did-we-join-the-afl.208042/page-2#post-4157029

Edit It's not in the stuff I typed up years ago, but the second part of chapter 20 talks about the alliance that the then new Western Bulldogs President Peter Gordon ( elected October 1989 when the fans rallied and took the VFL - soon to become AFL to the Supreme Court to stop being kicked out of the league) and Collingwood's President Allan McAlister struck up. Gordon and McAlister didn't trust the AFL, can't blame Gordon they had just tried to kill off his club and McAlister wanted to protect Collingwood's black and white and Magpies colours and icons. So they both voted against Port's entry into the AFL.

The rest of the chapter talks about how they opposed several of the Commission's recommendations over the next few years which saw them end up meeting the Commission and agreeing to set up The Crawford Report which would make recommendations into the future running of the commission and the powers of the club. It basically was their worst nightmare with recommendations to strip clubs and limit their powers to only a few matters which was fianlly approved in July 1993. The Wookie has listed those limited powers here in his The AFL Commission - Formation and Powers thread on the footy industry board

 

[GreyPower]

Richmond were the main ones trying to minimise our recruiting "concessions".

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Richmond were the main ones trying to minimise our recruiting "concessions".

True. We originally were going to get something like Freo concessions ie 2 years #1 pick before they changed things.

 

[PA88]

Either yellow or blue. Red would clash with St. Kilda.

The club was never choosing a colour or shade that was in use by the other sanfl clubs. A board member at the time of both bids said this to me and said that they registered silver prior to the 90s in anticipation but having no plans to use it as we were expecting to be black and white but by 94 that changed and also the afl didn't consider it contrasting enough and we had to find another colour.

From memory, and it's been a long time but I believe Abernathy writes that a sky blue was the option until he or club officials took a trip to the US where teams had been using teal and teal green. The club opted for teal blue.

I'm satisfied that we didn't adopt a colour used by other sanfl clubs nor the state colours.

Getting off track now but prior to the state colours used today and the apparent black and white used early that encouraged Collingwood to adopt them, that sometIme in the 30s and 40s the state side used chocolate brown and turquoise?