1st Test Border Gavaskar Trophy November 22-26 1350hrs @ Perth Stadium

[Silver Tongue]

Stuart Law definitely.

I watched Hussey bat a fair a bit and never convinced me he could have had a test career and was never surprised that selectors never considered him.

Law was a gun and would have been awesome. Like Lehmann when he finally got his chance.

 

[Silver Tongue]

Imagine a young Jamie Siddons right now.

 

[Around the Wicket]

Well, perhaps that's a stretch, but Murphy and Kuhnemann did alright when given the chance. Neither killing it in the Shield these days though.

you can't kill it in Shield as a spinner, the pitches are all green tracks with the occasional road mixed in

 

[Around the Wicket]

Stuart Law definitely.

I watched Hussey bat a fair a bit and never convinced me he could have had a test career and was never surprised that selectors never considered him.

Selectors turned David Hussey into a short form specialist

 

[sherb]

Below is a list of players who played in the period - late 1980s through to the early to mid 2000s who played little to no Test cricket for Australia due to Australian cricket being very very strong in terms of batting depth and not being able to get into the Australian Test team regularly or at all.

Jamie Siddons (0 Tests)
First Class - 11,587 @ 44.91

Jamie Cox (0 Tests)
First Class - 18,614 @ 42.69

Stuart Law (1 Test)
First Class - 27,080 @ 50.52

Micheal Bevan (18 Tests)
First Class - 19,147 @ 57.32

Martin Love (5 Tests)
First Class - 16,952 @ 49.85

Darren Lehmann (27 Tests)
First Class - 25,795 @ 57.83

Matthew Elliot (21 Tests)
First Class - 17,251 @ 47.00

David Hussey (0 Tests)
First Class - 14,280 @ 52.50

Phil Jacques (11 Tests)
First Class - 16,035 @ 48.29

Jimmy Maher (0 Tests)
First Class - 13,149 @ 38.78

Andrew Symonds (26 Tests)
First Class - 14,477 @ 42.20

Tom Moody (8 Tests)
First Class - 21,001 @ 46.25

Brad Hodge (6 Tests)
First Class - 17,084 @ 48.81

Michael Di Venuto (0 Tests)
First Class - 25,200 @ 45.90

James Brayshaw (0 Tests)
First Class - 4,934 @ 42.53

Shane Lee (0 Tests)
First Class - 5,071 @ 39.31

7 of these players played 0 Test matches.

4 played single figures for number of Test matches.

5 played double digits for number of Test matches.

3 played in the region of 21 to 27 Test matches.

The most number of Test matches played amongst this list was Darren Lehmann - 27 Test matches.

Out of this list of players, if we were to do an average figure for Test matches played per player then the number is 2.37 Test matches.

Dene Hills - 7894 f-c runs @ 40.07 (0 Tests)

 

[Jimthegreat]

Up there with Dutchy Holland and AB for having anomalous bowling figures against the West Indies.

He had a good set of bowling figures the very next tour to SA too. Went so well in the series against the West Indies, where he had decent figures in other Tests besides the 10-wicket haul in Adelaide, that we went into the SA series playing just playing 2 quicks, 2 spinners, one being Bevan, plus Blewett. Both he and Warnie played merry hell with SA in the first 2 Tests as a combo. Bevan got 9 wickets in those two Tests.

 

[sherb]

Imagine a young Jamie Siddons right now.

Or Hills and Cox in their prime opening the batting for Australia now. They were a formidable Shield opening combination.

 

[Cleavy]

Below is a list of players who played in the period - late 1980s through to the early to mid 2000s who played little to no Test cricket for Australia due to Australian cricket being very very strong in terms of batting depth and not being able to get into the Australian Test team regularly or at all.

Jamie Siddons (0 Tests)
First Class - 11,587 @ 44.91

Jamie Cox (0 Tests)
First Class - 18,614 @ 42.69

Stuart Law (1 Test)
First Class - 27,080 @ 50.52

Micheal Bevan (18 Tests)
First Class - 19,147 @ 57.32

Martin Love (5 Tests)
First Class - 16,952 @ 49.85

Darren Lehmann (27 Tests)
First Class - 25,795 @ 57.83

Matthew Elliot (21 Tests)
First Class - 17,251 @ 47.00

David Hussey (0 Tests)
First Class - 14,280 @ 52.50

Phil Jacques (11 Tests)
First Class - 16,035 @ 48.29

Jimmy Maher (0 Tests)
First Class - 13,149 @ 38.78

Andrew Symonds (26 Tests)
First Class - 14,477 @ 42.20

Tom Moody (8 Tests)
First Class - 21,001 @ 46.25

Brad Hodge (6 Tests)
First Class - 17,084 @ 48.81

Michael Di Venuto (0 Tests)
First Class - 25,200 @ 45.90

James Brayshaw (0 Tests)
First Class - 4,934 @ 42.53

Shane Lee (0 Tests)
First Class - 5,071 @ 39.31

7 of these players played 0 Test matches.

4 played single figures for number of Test matches.

5 played double digits for number of Test matches.

3 played in the region of 21 to 27 Test matches.

The most number of Test matches played amongst this list was Darren Lehmann - 27 Test matches.

Out of this list of players, if we were to do an average figure for Test matches played per player then the number is 2.37 Test matches.

what are their Shield averages as a comparison, since most (if not all) played county cricket?

 

[sabso]

Perhaps the Aussies will be able to regenerate on the run as successfully as the Cats have managed to do.

The national cricket team doesn’t have a salary cap, insiders at the ICC fixing the rules and the fixture, or the means (sniff) to incentivise players to join the team from rival teams.

 

[western royboy]

What level of cricket are you referring to?

If we’re talking under 12s and below and community cricket then what is going to happen to the 4-5 kids each week that don’t get a bat? They’ll stop playing.



Again, what level of cricket are you talking about?



Define properly? What fundamentals were those players taught that you feel is not being taught anymore? Your argument was that players should essentially be banned from hitting the ball in the air which is ludicrous.



What resources are you referring to?

And if there is 60% of the number of kids playing cricket, what does that do to crickets viewership, and what does that then do to the resources. Every sport needs to make sure that it’s numbers are good to be successful, and that includes people who are never gonna get anywhere near the higher levels.


Pretty recently and I don’t disagree. But why is that down to coaching, you don’t think the fact that on average people are quitting grade cricket at a younger age, and that state level players are playing grade cricket far less, meaning the overall quality of players from first to fourth/fifth grade has diminished is a big reason why? Btw this isn’t exclusively a cricket problem, look at how the overall talent pool for leagues like the SANFL has reduced in recent years because of the same factors.


Be specific with what the technical issues are. I agree that players probably aren’t as defensively proficient as they once were, but is that down to coaching or the demands of playing 2 vastly different types of games.

The current players are the first lot of players who have really had to build their techniques to flourish in both white and red ball cricket. I don’t like it, but it’s the reality of how the game is shifting and has shifted.


They have not been taught terribly, they have been taught to play a different game.

All the top guys in our white ball system, had they been solely focussed on red ball cricket would have the talent to be highly successful at Shield and possibly even Test level.

What do you mean by the incentives have been all wrong?

Re: Technical Issues

95% of most batting flaws arise from 3 things;

Grip
Backlift
Stance

None of these are taught to kids starting out in any form. Kids are encouraged to smash it…and so the bottom hand takes over.

It is usually never rectified.

Kids don’t really train anymore they just play…millions and millions of Mickey Mouse games that mean nothing.

The emphasis is on scoring because the need to win takes over, so the bottom hand (for most kids their most dominant) takes over as well.

Most enter senior crickey ill equipped to play it. So when they enjoyment stops (because they haven’t got the tools) so do they.

We have a generation of kids who played cricket but in reality never played the game at all.

But it’s Okay, CA have them for like as consumers

 

[PhatBoy]

The national cricket team doesn’t have a salary cap, insiders at the ICC fixing the rules and the fixture, or the means (sniff) to incentivise players to join the team from rival teams.

How ARE Taranto, Prestia, Hopper and Lynch going at the moment, speaking of high profile recruits from rival teams?

 

[The hands of stone]

If we were really serious about looking forward we would be implementing a 10 year plan starting at under 12s.

This would a complete rethink on "talent" and place a greater emphasis on cricket smarts and would involve things like:

1. Doing away with retiring batsmen in junior cricket after a certain number of runs or ball;
2. Not selecting players who hit the ball through the air in rep teams or development squads;
3. Abandoning the "everyone gets a go" approach.
4. Reinforcing the basics around footwork. Are their any players who go back and across for cuts or pulls anymore?

Those are just a few suggestions.

Spot on but hard too do unfortunately

My mate and I were asked to coach an under rep side , this was around 20 years ago now ( shoes how long this has been going )
We ran the trials and spent a month driving around actually watching games.
At the time we both were playing what I would term fairly high level .

We picked our squad and went with a balanced line up , but really picked batters with solid games that would hopefully rise to the level , get some experience and progress their cricket .

The association called us in and pretty much told us we were dropping 3 kids out and selecting 3 other kids .
With all due respect to the kids , bigger physically and batted like woodchoppers.

We compromised and extended the squad ........

I personally don't like the retirement in age groups.
Kids don't learn to build and construct an innings and dont develop the endurance for batting time .
And that's without even getting into technique .

 

[Black Diamond]

Spot on but hard too do unfortunately
...

Agree it is hard. Too important for everyone to get a go/win meaningless trophies.

Your story is diabolical. What was it that made the association call you? Vanity about a district rep side not winning a junior comp?

 

[PhatBoy]

Agree it is hard. Too important for everyone to get a go/win meaningless trophies.

Your story is diabolical. What was it that made the association call you? Vanity about a district rep side not winning a junior comp?

It is important for everyone to get a go. That’s the entire essence of junior sport.

 

[Lunchtime]

what are their Shield averages as a comparison, since most (if not all) played county cricket?

First of all, sorry for the late reply, I had to go onto the CricketArchive website to look at their First-Class stats when playing for their states in Australian domestic cricket. Please see below their First-Class records when playing for their states. Also, as a comparison I have posted their overall First-Class stats too. As you said earlier, most of these players also played First-Class cricket in England in County cricket.

Jamie Siddons (0 Tests)
First Class - 11,587 @ 44.91
VIC/SA - 11,519 @ 44.99

Jamie Cox (0 Tests)
First Class - 18,614 @ 42.69
TAS - @ 11,812 @ 40.45

Stuart Law (1 Test)
First Class - 27,080 @ 50.52
QLD - 9,920 @ 43.13

Micheal Bevan (18 Tests)
First Class - 19,147 @ 57.32
NSW/TAS/SA - 11,756 @ 61.87

Martin Love (5 Tests)
First Class - 16,952 @ 49.85
QLD - 11,224 @ 46.00

Darren Lehmann (27 Tests)
First Class - 25,795 @ 57.83
VIC/SA - 14,392 @ 54.30

Matthew Elliot (21 Tests)
First Class - 17,251 @ 47.00
SA/VIC - 10,543 @ 46.65

David Hussey (0 Tests)
First Class - 14,280 @ 52.50
VIC - 7,668 @ 46.19

Phil Jacques (11 Tests)
First Class - 16,035 @ 48.29
NSW - 5,659 @ 41.30

Jimmy Maher (0 Tests)
First Class - 13,149 @ 38.78
QLD - 9,933 @ 39.57

Andrew Symonds (26 Tests)
First Class - 14,477 @ 42.20
QLD - 5,725 @ 36.46

Tom Moody (8 Tests)
First Class - 21,001 @ 46.25
WA - 9,520 @ 42.31

Brad Hodge (6 Tests)
First Class - 17,084 @ 48.81
VIC - 11,350 @ 47.29

Michael Di Venuto (0 Tests)
First Class - 25,200 @ 45.90
TAS - 10,117 @ 40.95

James Brayshaw (0 Tests)
First Class - 4,934 @ 42.53
SA/WA - 4,934 @ 42.53

Shane Lee (0 Tests)
First Class - 5,071 @ 39.31
NSW - 3,690 @ 35.14

 

[sosos]

I can fix cricket. In all forms, you get six runs for a well hit boundary along the ground, and and anything over the fence is ten and out.

 

[sabso]

How ARE Taranto, Prestia, Hopper and Lynch going at the moment, speaking of high profile recruits from rival teams?

TT best and fairest 2023
Prestia 3 premierships
Hopper meh
Lynch 2 premierships

Were you embarrassed to mention Toby Nankervis as well?

 

[PhatBoy]

TT best and fairest 2023
Prestia 3 premierships
Hopper meh
Lynch 2 premierships

Were you embarrassed to mention Toby Nankervis as well?

He’d played f**k all games. He wasn’t gonna break the bank when he joined.

The others were all 100-plus gamers or close to it and alleged club saviours in two cases and proven to be important contributors to flags in others.

Likely involved considerable cap breaches to get all of them.

 

[sabso]

He’d played f**k all games. He wasn’t gonna break the bank when he joined.

The others were all 100-plus gamers or close to it and alleged club saviours in two cases and proven to be important contributors to flags in others.

Likely involved considerable cap breaches to get all of them.

They came from gws and Gold Coast to a real football club. We gave Taranto and hopper Chelsea style contracts to offset any potential salary cap, and they weren’t recruited on the basis of contributing to the 2019 flag lol.

 

[The hands of stone]

Agree it is hard. Too important for everyone to get a go/win meaningless trophies.

Your story is diabolical. What was it that made the association call you? Vanity about a district rep side not winning a junior comp?

At the time I had just got back from England , and really didnt have a settle job . I had played my juniors and early seniors in the comp so they reached out to me to coach . Was under 12s .

We also picked a girl as our opening bowler which caused quite a stir at the time

We made the GF in the carnival and we weren't asked back the next year

 

[King Elvis]

Re: Technical Issues

95% of most batting flaws arise from 3 things;

Grip
Backlift
Stance

None of these are taught to kids starting out in any form. Kids are encouraged to smash it…and so the bottom hand takes over.

It is usually never rectified.

Kids don’t really train anymore they just play…millions and millions of Mickey Mouse games that mean nothing.

The emphasis is on scoring because the need to win takes over, so the bottom hand (for most kids their most dominant) takes over as well.

Most enter senior crickey ill equipped to play it. So when they enjoyment stops (because they haven’t got the tools) so do they.

We have a generation of kids who played cricket but in reality never played the game at all.

But it’s Okay, CA have them for like as consumers

One thing that always stuck out with me from Hussey's book - he knew he wanted to bat 8 hours a day in a Test, so he batted for 8 hours a day in training.

 

[King Elvis]

I can fix cricket. In all forms, you get six runs for a well hit boundary along the ground, and and anything over the fence is ten and out.

How many of our wickets were players caught in the deep?

 

[western royboy]

One thing that always stuck out with me from Hussey's book - he knew he wanted to bat 8 hours a day in a Test, so he batted for 8 hours a day in training.

6 hours - 3 x 2 hr sessions but your point is well made - from memory he asked Steve Waugh what he needed to do to get to the next level - he told you need to be able to bat for a day so he went back to his coach and they set up the bowling machine and he batted for a day starting at 11 and finished at 6.

I think what is more telling is that as a junior he wasn’t that big or strong and and not an “outstanding talent” so his coach told him to focus on playing straight and that allowed him to get thru.

My assessment is that in today’s environment he doesn’t make it

I think his coach’s name was Ian Kevin or something like that

 

[Black Diamond]

I think what is more telling is that as a junior he wasn’t that big or strong and and not an “outstanding talent” so his coach told him to focus on playing straight and that allowed him to get thru.

My assessment is that in today’s environment he doesn’t make it

I think his coach’s name was Ian Kevin or something like that

Amazingly having been taught this way, Hussey became an outstanding limited overs player capable of scoring very quickly and hitting clean and long.

I wonder why?

 

[JackOutback]

That sort of dedication has always been rare. Obviously, by the time they reach Test cricket, most players have stories of dedication but you certainly wouldn't be expecting it from the average junior or even most professionals. That's why he's Mr Cricket, I guess.