1st Test Border Gavaskar Trophy November 22-26 1350hrs @ Perth Stadium

[Lunchtime]

He was a very good first class player. But history is littered with players who for whatever reason could not make that step

On a much, much smaller scale right now the West Indies have the example of Shai Hope. He doesn’t have near the record in first class cricket of Bevan (he averages 36) but if he take out his test numbers that goes up to the high 40s.

He also averages over 50 in ODI cricket and plays a role like Bevan only he has way more hundreds:

But in his 36 test matches he only has 2 centuries - which came in the same match and won is a brilliant victory in England - and averages about 25. He is clearly good enough talent wise but for whatever reason just hasn’t been able to put it together

I still reckon Bevan was harshly treated by the selectors in regards to Test cricket in that era. He didn't do himself any favours....we all know that and we know that it was hard to get back into the Test team in that era once you got kicked out despite Bevan churning out thousands of runs.

Speaking of the West Indies....see Brathwait's average....33..as a Test Opening batsman he falls short but they probably don't have a lot of other options.

 

[PhatBoy]

I still reckon Bevan was harshly treated by the selectors in regards to Test cricket in that era. He didn't do himself any favours....we all know that and we know that it was hard to get back into the Test team in that era once you got kicked out despite Bevan churning out thousands of runs.

Speaking of the West Indies....see Brathwait's average....33..as a Test Opening batsman he falls short but they probably don't have a lot of other options.

It’s going down and down all the time - it was up around 37-ish when he made that tonne out here two summers ago and he’s barely made a run since. The reintroduction of the CCC team into the first class comp and the academy team have bolstered the comp to 8 teams and led to some better output there are just a few flickers of light; Mikyle Louis is one of those, he made three centuries in his debut first class season and now seems to be settling into test cricket. Athanaze is starting to find his groove albeit both of them now need a big three figure score. Kavem Hodge and Justin Greaves have hit centuries in the last few tests we’ve played. Those last two admittedly have just turned 30 though. Jewel Andrew is 17/18 and is in and around the international squads. He’s made bucketloads of underage runs so hopefully his talent doesn’t get wasted and now some of the white ball players have allegedly said they are interested in red ball cricket once more. There actually appears to be something approximating unity in the set up at the moment. I have a lot of respect for Brathwaite and the load he has had to carry for us for nearly a decade as the lone batsman approaching world class status albeit just a bit below it. But I think his time is probably passed

 

[big_e]

Michael Bevan was harshly treated is a weird hill to die on.

 

[Grumpyshades]

Michael Bevan was harshly treated is a weird hill to die on.

In an era when test debuts for Australia were very rare, Bevan had multiple chances when other blokes never got a look in

 

[Lunchtime]

It’s going down and down all the time - it was up around 37-ish when he made that tonne out here two summers ago and he’s barely made a run since. The reintroduction of the CCC team into the first class comp and the academy team have bolstered the comp to 8 teams and led to some better output there are just a few flickers of light; Mikyle Louis is one of those, he made three centuries in his debut first class season and now seems to be settling into test cricket. Athanaze is starting to find his groove albeit both of them now need a big three figure score. Kavem Hodge and Justin Greaves have hit centuries in the last few tests we’ve played. Those last two admittedly have just turned 30 though. Jewel Andrew is 17/18 and is in and around the international squads. He’s made bucketloads of underage runs so hopefully his talent doesn’t get wasted and now some of the white ball players have allegedly said they are interested in red ball cricket once more. There actually appears to be something approximating unity in the set up at the moment. I have a lot of respect for Brathwaite and the load he has had to carry for us for nearly a decade as the lone batsman approaching world class status albeit just a bit below it. But I think his time is probably passed

Not sure he has long in the game left.

 

[revo333]

He couldn't get regular goes at Test level due to the strength of the Australian Test team. It wasn't just about the short ball theory. Bevan would be playing Test cricket for Australia in this era.

The short ball theory "as the only reason" is garbage and people who use it don't have a very good feel for the game.

The spot was his for the taking and he couldn't keep it. Blewett took his chances and played twice as many tests.

If you can't make runs against England in the 90's then you are no certainty to make runs in any era.

 

[revo333]

Too intense ....stories of him sitting in the shower in full kit after he got out....got himself worked up too much

Weird cat for sure.

When he played for Tasmania, batting in the middle and making runs he would call himself 'The Bevanator"

 

[Around the Wicket]

Michael Bevan was harshly treated is a weird hill to die on.

18 Tests is more then enough to prove yourself, he had a run of tough opponents though, I feel he'd kill it today.

Pretty much every Test was against elite bowlers.

 

[sosos]

I only wanted Bevo in the team because, at the time, and unfortunately proved wrong afterwards, I thought he could bat well enough, and we'd then get the entertainment of his mad bowling.

All good. Not a hill to die on, just a memory now.

 

[big_e]

18 Tests is more then enough to prove yourself, he had a run of tough opponents though, I feel he'd kill it today.

Pretty much every Test was against elite bowlers.

Eh?

Michael Bevan was dropped after three tests in the 94/95 Ashes having scored 81 runs at 13.5, and being dismissed by the likes of Phil De Freitas and Angus Fraser. Darren Gough scored more runs from fewer innings, that's how bad Bevan was going at that point - at least Gough was facing Warnie and not Phil Tufnell.

And after making his way back into the side a year or so later, he was then dropped again in the 97 Ashes, scoring 43 runs in three tests at 8.6, against the likes of Dean Headley, Robert Croft and Mark Ealham.

 

[revo333]

Eh?

Michael Bevan was dropped after three tests in the 94/95 Ashes having scored 81 runs at 13.5, and being dismissed by the likes of Phil De Freitas and Angus Fraser. Darren Gough scored more runs from fewer innings, that's how bad Bevan was going at that point - at least Gough was facing Warnie and not Phil Tufnell.

And after making his way back into the side a year or so later, he was then dropped again in the 97 Ashes, scoring 43 runs in three tests at 8.6, against the likes of Dean Headley, Robert Croft and Mark Ealham.

Meanwhile Blewett and Elliot were making runs.

 

[the_interloper]

Back when I coached juniors, my son also, I was always being told by officials but mostly parents to ''give my son a go'' in a particular position, or to bowl as well as bat as they felt their little Johnny was a class all rounder. I was appointed to win games of cricket not molly coddle your son, was my reply.

I'm coaching under 10s at the moment, it's modified rules so everyone gets a bat and a bowl. I'm fairly sure if it wasn't the case most of my kids wouldn't be playing. Of course this changes as you go along but I think initially this is a good thing.

And I've noticed early on that parents can be a pain in the ****ing arse, the 9 year olds are way easier to manage in comparison.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I'm coaching under 10s at the moment, it's modified rules so everyone gets a bat and a bowl. I'm fairly sure if it wasn't the case most of my kids wouldn't be playing. Of course this changes as you go along but I think initially this is a good thing.

And I've noticed early on that parents can be a pain in the ****ing arse, the 9 year olds are way easier to manage in comparison.

I think at that age or 8-9-10 thats how it should be, everyone gets a bat and a bowl. But 12 and up I think it needs to be more like real cricket.

I know CA and the same with the AFL love spruiking about look how many numbers we have playing the game but the reality is that half of them don't even want to play, their parents either make them just so they are a part of a team sport or they simply are not good enough so they lose interest very quickly.

 

[western royboy]

I think at that age or 8-9-10 thats how it should be, everyone gets a bat and a bowl. But 12 and up I think it needs to be more like real cricket.

I know CA and the same with the AFL love spruiking about look how many numbers we have playing the game but the reality is that half of them don't even want to play, their parents either make them just so they are a part of a team sport or they simply are not good enough so they lose interest very quickly.

But they are consumers for life - it has nothing to do with learning the game

 

[PhatBoy]

I think at that age or 8-9-10 thats how it should be, everyone gets a bat and a bowl. But 12 and up I think it needs to be more like real cricket.

I know CA and the same with the AFL love spruiking about look how many numbers we have playing the game but the reality is that half of them don't even want to play, their parents either make them just so they are a part of a team sport or they simply are not good enough so they lose interest very quickly.

Here’s the thing.

It’s already a sport that unlike every other sport there is, even if you are getting a go, your day can be over in a heartbeat.

Play AFL? You could be the worst player out there, but as long as you aren’t on the bench the entire game, and you won’t be, really, because no coach is going to do that, you will be in the game. Whether you are chasing the ball, trying to lay a tackle, trying to take a mark, whatever. You’re in the game.

The other codes are the same in whatever capacity. Tennis and golf etc are individual sports and no matter how bad a kid is at them, they get to play them to the maximum capacity.

You get a kid that plays cricket and tell him on a Saturday at club level that he has to pay full fees and train (or his parents do with the fees part) and spend 3 hours fielding which literally no one likes, and then won’t get a go because he’s not deemed worthy and the kids above him are all going to get to bat for as long as they want, you see how many of them bother sticking around. Soon enough you won’t have a comp.

On the other hand if you start telling them ‘mate, we are going to give you a job, you can open the batting or bat 3’ they might get out after a few balls anyway, and barely even disrupt the good kids. Hardly get in their way. But they get a taste of responsibility and they get some motivation to improve. The kids who retire can usually come back out to bat anyway.

And then as we’ve all mentioned those kids that are good enough who have a genuine appetite for it, go to the next level and play rep cricket where they can bat to their heart’s content for 40-50 overs if they’re good enough.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Here’s the thing.

It’s already a sport that unlike every other sport there is, even if you are getting a go, your day can be over in a heartbeat.

Play AFL? You could be the worst player out there, but as long as you aren’t on the bench the entire game, and you won’t be, really, because no coach is going to do that, you will be in the game. Whether you are chasing the ball, trying to lay a tackle, trying to take a mark, whatever. You’re in the game.

The other codes are the same in whatever capacity. Tennis and golf etc are individual sports and no matter how bad a kid is at them, they get to play them to the maximum capacity.

You get a kid that plays cricket and tell him on a Saturday at club level that he has to pay full fees and train (or his parents do with the fees part) and spend 3 hours fielding which literally no one likes, and then won’t get a go because he’s not deemed worthy and the kids above him are all going to get to bat for as long as they want, you see how many of them bother sticking around. Soon enough you won’t have a comp.

On the other hand if you start telling them ‘mate, we are going to give you a job, you can open the batting or bat 3’ they might get out after a few balls anyway, and barely even disrupt the good kids. Hardly get in their way. But they get a taste of responsibility and they get some motivation to improve. The kids who retire can usually come back out to bat anyway.

And then as we’ve all mentioned those kids that are good enough who have a genuine appetite for it, go to the next level and play rep cricket where they can bat to their heart’s content for 40-50 overs if they’re good enough.

Agree and thats why it is critical when they are under 12 to be all given a go. But the strings have to be cut at some point and for most part you have either fallen in love with the game by 12-13 or you haven't.

 

[Silver Tongue]

Too intense ....stories of him sitting in the shower in full kit after he got out....got himself worked up too much

I think the term used was 'Bev-attacks'

 

[PhatBoy]

Agree and thats why it is critical when they are under 12 to be all given a go. But the strings have to be cut at some point and for most part you have either fallen in love with the game by 12-13 or you haven't.

As a parent of a kid playing at an older age level, it doesn’t always happen that way

 

[greatwhiteshark]

As a parent of a kid playing at an older age level, it doesn’t always happen that way

Always going to be different paths for some. For me I just wanted my kids to play team sport for as long as they can purely for the social skills they develop in team groups. 2 played until they were 16 and 1 still plays footy and has played now over 150 games for his amatuer club. Very proud of them all.

 

[Plugger35]

When I played junior cricket in under 12s in the 80s there weren't any restrictions on batting apart from retire if you got to 50.

Hardly anyone got to 50 though, my highest score was 35 no but I was a Boycott style opener that batted all innings to get it.

 

[PhatBoy]

Always going to be different paths for some. For me I just wanted my kids to play team sport for as long as they can purely for the social skills they develop in team groups. 2 played until they were 16 and 1 still plays footy and has played now over 150 games for his amatuer club. Very proud of them all.

Me too and that’s the main aspect I want for them as well and look as a cricket tragic who actually WOULD happily field if that’s all it was, I would love for my son to enjoy it enough to just do that but most kids won’t.

Adults will: if you can keep them in the game that long, they will get to the point where playing a game of third grade, not batting or bowling but going for a schooner and being part of a team will be as meaningful to them as playing first grade and being a star player can be for someone else. That’s what I would ultimately love for him. But to keep him in the game that long he’s got to find enough encouragement to keep playing and the way the comps here are structured (14 year olds playing with and against some kids who are physically easily developed enough to play in second grade) if it was a case of letting the better kids just bat as long as they want he and some others simply wouldn’t get enough of a go to maintain any real interest

 

[revo333]

These days it's crucial to keep people interested in playing no matter how old they are.

The most out of touch thing I've ever witnessed was a club president complaining that people in the lower grades were coming back to the club to have a beer at 4.30 on day two of a game and not staying at the ground until 6 and playing out all the overs.

A month later the president complained that no one was coming back to the club after the game.

 

[western royboy]

Me too and that’s the main aspect I want for them as well and look as a cricket tragic who actually WOULD happily field if that’s all it was, I would love for my son to enjoy it enough to just do that but most kids won’t.

Adults will: if you can keep them in the game that long, they will get to the point where playing a game of third grade, not batting or bowling but going for a schooner and being part of a team will be as meaningful to them as playing first grade and being a star player can be for someone else. That’s what I would ultimately love for him. But to keep him in the game that long he’s got to find enough encouragement to keep playing and the way the comps here are structured (14 year olds playing with and against some kids who are physically easily developed enough to play in second grade) if it was a case of letting the better kids just bat as long as they want he and some others simply wouldn’t get enough of a go to maintain any real interest

In the juniors it should be about grading, but sadly it becomes about winning and that’s where things go wrong. My conscience is pretty clear, i coached Milo, Under 11’s & Under13’s for a time when my boys were young. What i hope is that I taught enough kids the basics that they are able to enjoy the game as they got older. But in recent years i have actually apologised to my two as I’ve made them technically very correct players in an age of bottom hand slappers. In any case it hasn’t hurt them, they’ve both played cricket in England and one made well over 1,000 runs

 

[MisterMarcus]

Not sure the short ball theory with Bevan would stand up in this era. He averaged 60.75 against Pakistan and 55.00 against the West Indies. He would of faced Akram, Younis, Walsh, Ambrose & Bishop......AND faced a barrage of short pitched bowling.

He couldn't get regular goes at Test level due to the strength of the Australian Test team. It wasn't just about the short ball theory. Bevan would be playing Test cricket for Australia in this era.

The short ball theory "as the only reason" is garbage and people who use it don't have a very good feel for the game.

Steve Waugh in his autobiography makes the point that Bevan's issue wasn't about the short ball per se, it's that he was always tinkering with aspects of his game. He couldn't settle on one method and was always trying new things.

It just so happened that at that time, he was tinkering with how he played the short ball. His ugly dismissals were not a result of him being 'scared' or 'incapable'.....it was just a result of him being caught in two minds and not having settled on one way to play it.

Eventually he sorted it out and never had issues again at Shield level, but the "weak against the short stuff" stigma just stuck.

 

[Voice of the G]

Steve Waugh in his autobiography makes the point that Bevan's issue wasn't about the short ball per se, it's that he was always tinkering with aspects of his game. He couldn't settle on one method and was always trying new things.

It just so happened that at that time, he was tinkering with how he played the short ball. His ugly dismissals were not a result of him being 'scared' or 'incapable'.....it was just a result of him being caught in two minds and not having settled on one way to play it.

Eventually he sorted it out and never had issues again at Shield level, but the "weak against the short stuff" stigma just stuck.

I think that is one of the major problems for Glenn Maxwell if he wishes to play test cricket again.To much white ball cricket and very little red ball and perhaps a issue for most of our batsman trying to switch from T20 back to red ball cricket.