2003 Squad preview, by me ****

[Asgardian]

G’day Crowies, time to create trouble, lol

Here to do my take of your 2003 team list, some you’ll hate, some you’ll be happy with, remember, I am not trying to stir you guys up. I’m trying to be as honest, blunt and candid with my comments as I can be. So if you reckon I’m wrong, that’s okay, discuss it, don’t just resort to flame posts, that helps no-one.

Nathan Bassett - No crap backman, BIG forwards do trouble him
James Begley - Doubt if he’ll see much Crow time, better options available
Mark Bickley - THUG, still playing well
Rhett Biglands - 1st choice ruckman, dependable, but not a star
Nathan Bock - Very raw, but looks to have a bit of go
Matthew Bode - Did well, useful 2nd/3rd stringer to star midfielders
Ronnie Burns - Use by date expired, dud hack
Brett Burton - Superb athlete still learning to play footy
Wayne Carey - Was the MAN, injuries?, time away?, motivations?, may be still great
Matthew Clarke - Very limited big man, good at tap work
Andrew Crowell - Probably just me, I don’t think he’s much of a player
Michael Doughty - Surprised me, has done well, plays like Brenton Miels (Sturt)
Tyson Edwards - Best “non-star” at Crows, dependable and versatile
James Gallagher - Lost his way, slipping down the queue
Simon Goodwin - Star midfielder with all the tools, and versatile
Ben Hart - Along with McLeod, maybe the best Crow so far?
Trent Hentschel - Looks like a genuine talent
Luke Jericho - New kid, yet to see him play
Graham John**** - Versatility is his key, can do most jobs, a natural
Chris Ladhams - A bit better than Essendon thought he was
Ben Marsh - Only there coz a 3rd stringer wasn’t available, DUD
Kris Massie - Like this kid, he hangs in tough, let him settle at HBF
Martin Mattner - Has possibilities, may be a run with player only though?
Ken McGregor - You all know I think he’s a HACK, I still do
Andrew McLeod - Footballs Ferrari
Ben Nelson - Won’t see much Crow time, won’t be on 2004 list
Ian Perrie - Been there too long, & hasn’t done enough, Carey has his spot
Brent Reilly - Looks hesitant, has talent but that may not be enough
Mark Ricciuto - Plays like M.Voss, but not quite as good
Ben Rutten - Strikes me as Crows future CHB
Daniel Schell - DUD, hack, useless, not required
Jacob Schuback - Haven’t seen much of him, seems to like inside work
Robert Shirley - Dud hack tagger, Crows don’t need him
Nigel Smart - Mr “Happy when I’m baffling people”, enough tricks for 2003 left? Maybe
Matthew Smith - Was a project player, time to deliver, 193cm, but doesn’t play tall
Tyson Stenglein - Lot to like about this “more than just a in your face tagger”
Mark Stevens - Fine player, but can he combine with Carey, couldn’t at the Roos
Jason Torney - Does a defensive job, best I can say about him
Scott Welsh - Fine goal sneak, will enjoy feeding off Carey. OP is a problem

Carey is the BIG talking point, his worth will be evaluated once we have seen if he is over all those injuries. Burns is useless in my opinion, Torney, Begley and Shirley are journeymen at best, so I do believe Kane Johnson’s absence will hurt the Crows. The other factor is can Stevens and Welsh work with Carey, the Roo experience says no, but that may have been all Pagan’s doing, we will have to wait and see.

No predictions yet, other than to say that if the Crows could make the 2002 finals, they should do likewise in 2003.

 

[DaveW]

Thanks, not a bad job. Most here would agree on most of the players you rate as duds/hacks. With the definite exception of McGregor, whom we can't seem to sell you Port fans on. Other exceptions are probably Burns (let's wait and see with him in a new environment, eh?) and Crowell (who I think we are divided on) ... Oh and Marsh! (no thats just me)

Mark Bickley - THUG, still playing well

Try to look past a few seconds of insanity, yeah?

James Gallagher - Lost his way, slipping down the queue

Only because of injuries, expect to see more of him next season.

Martin Mattner - Has possibilities, may be a run with player only though?
Tyson Stenglein - Lot to like about this “more than just a in your face tagger”

Hopefully we'll be able to say about Mattner what you've just said about Stenglein in future.

Mark Stevens - Fine player, but can he combine with Carey, couldn’t at the Roos
The other factor is can Stevens and Welsh work with Carey, the Roo experience says no, but that may have been all Pagan’s doing, we will have to wait and see.

Stevens has come along in leaps and bounds in his five years with Adelaide. How he played in his younger days with Carey at the Kangaroos is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

Jason Torney - Does a defensive job, best I can say about him
Torney, Begley and Shirley are journeymen at best

I think you underrate Torney, he was an important player at Richmond.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

On the whole Asguardian, I think you have made a fair assessment of the Crows - in fact on most occassions you are spot on with your comments. I would only challege your following player assessments:

Originally posted by Asgardian
Ronnie Burns - Use by date expired, dud hack

I reckon he will suprise you in 2003, as he gets a fresh start at the Crows & enjoys playing under Ayres (as opposed to Thompson). The guy still has goal-kicking talent (even if he is over 30, he is not over the hill). Would be happy if he plays 2/3rds of the games (as I expect he will have some injury problems) & averages 2 goals per game.

James Gallagher - Lost his way, slipping down the queue

No doubt he has slipped down the queue, but more to to do with injury than losing his way ... but if that is the way you put it, you will be glad to know he is one of the star performers at pre-season training & has found his way again! Expect Gags to have a big 2003 & fill some of the hole left by Sugar on a wing.

Ken McGregor - You all know I think he’s a HACK, I still do

I was saying the same thing as you this time last year, but Kenny suprised the heck out of me & 95% of Crows' supporters by playing a similar dependable negating game Darren Mead did at CHB. With another solid pre-season, hopefully he can go up another level in 2003. Definitely not a hack!

Carey is the BIG talking point, his worth will be evaluated once we have seen if he is over all those injuries. Burns is useless in my opinion, Torney, Begley and Shirley are journeymen at best, so I do believe Kane Johnson’s absence will hurt the Crows. The other factor is can Stevens and Welsh work with Carey, the Roo experience says no, but that may have been all Pagan’s doing, we will have to wait and see.

Reckon you are a bit tough on Torney being a journeyman. He is a reasonable player who has played consistent football for the inconsistent Tigers & has done well in their B&F counts over the years.

No doubt Sugar will be a loss, but considering we have many quality young midfielders who were lacking game time, I believe we can adequately cover him (ie. have a midfield of McLeod, Roo, Goody, Edwards, Stenglein, Bickley, Ladhams, Bode, Doughty, Gallagher, Massie, .... pretty good depth still).

Both Stevo & Welshy are smart footballers & will have no problems along with Burns working with Carey. Birdman on the other hand takes a while to work most things out (& I just hope he doesn't use Carey as a stepladder to often).

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by Asgardian
Mark Bickley - THUG, still playing well
Ronnie Burns - Use by date expired, dud hack
James Gallagher - Lost his way, slipping down the queue
Martin Mattner - Has possibilities, may be a run with player only though?
Ken McGregor - You all know I think he’s a HACK, I still do
Nigel Smart - Mr “Happy when I’m baffling people”, enough tricks for 2003 left? Maybe
Mark Stevens - Fine player, but can he combine with Carey, couldn’t at the Roos
Jason Torney - Does a defensive job, best I can say about him

Pretty good effort actually as we look at Crows players through rose coloured glasses and yours are probably a bit cloudy in that direction.

The only ones I feel need further comment are the ones I left above:

Bickley - one bad thing which he very much regrets in a whole career does not make him a THUG. If anything it's sad that he tarnished years of playing footy with one bad incident.

Burns - will either be the best thing since sliced bread as a crumber, or a total wipe-out. Ayres faith in him has convinced me -better than sliced bread it is.

Gallagher - has slid down the ladder as you say, but totally through injury. Needs a good run with injury to fight his way back up again because unlike the namesake we shipped off to Carlton, this Gallagher can play.

Mattner - will be very handy indeed. I think that he will be much more than just a run with type, but as Cornesy says "He can find the hard ball, he's just got to learn to find the easy ball as well.'

McGregor - blossomed as a footballer in 2002 and matured into a very good CHB. No point debating further.

Smart - got under a lot of people's guards last year because he played a different game from the normal run off HB line we were used to. Took the best forward each week and played a negating role on them and was rarely beaten. His ego will demand that he plays well in 2003.

Stevens - was never really asked to combine with Carey at the Roos as Carey was the CHF there and Stevens the understudy for the same spot. Carey will be at FF in 2003.

Torney - I think he's a bit better than you've rated him and has the further value of releasing Edwards for stints on the ball and up forward.

Good post, and in the main, pretty well on the mark.

 

[PAfolwr]

Two points from this person from up the road.
McGregor, not a hack as such, but only a fill-in until a replacement is found. ( I think I'll stop there. )
Burns, I think he was/will be the best gamble of the pre-season. By that I mean, not much to lose if it doesn't work, and heaps to gain if it does. He is the type of player that could really benefit/improve the Crows.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Originally posted by Asgardian


Mark Bickley - THUG, still playing well

Ronnie Burns - Use by date expired, dud hack

Wayne Carey - Was the MAN, injuries?, time away?, motivations?, may be still great

James Gallagher - Lost his way, slipping down the queue

Ken McGregor - You all know I think he’s a HACK, I still do

Mark Stevens - Fine player, but can he combine with Carey, couldn’t at the Roos

Agree with all except the above.

Bickley - Your right; he has now earned the thug tag, but I can live with that. We'll never know whether he cost both clubs a flag.
Shouldnt fear footsteps in the subsequent showdowns and maybe goin around this year is a mistake.

Burns - Your comments would be different if Port drafted him. I think his magic will return in a fresh environment.

Carey - Undoubtebly the signing of the century. You dont loose that sorta talent over a season. He'll be like a dog with two dix!

Gallagher - The queue has shortened and this kid has class

McGregor - So was John Klug

Stevens - Great player who has been known to carve up CHFs.
Itl work if he plays down back

 

[Stiffy_18]

Re: Re: 2003 Squad preview, by me ****

Originally posted by macca23
...unlike the namesake we shipped off to Carlton, this Gallagher can play.

****ing cruel macca. You took me by surprise there I feel a bit sick now. I am going to throw up and go for a bit of a nap.

****ing cruel macca

 

[noddy]

Originally posted by Asgardian
G’day Crowies, time to create trouble, lol

Here to do my take of your 2003 team list, some you’ll hate, some you’ll be happy with, remember, I am not trying to stir you guys up. I’m trying to be as honest, blunt and candid with my comments as I can be. So if you reckon I’m wrong, that’s okay, discuss it, don’t just resort to flame posts, that helps no-one.

Mark Bickley - THUG, still playing well

Ronnie Burns - Use by date expired, dud hack
Tyson Edwards - Best “non-star” at Crows, dependable and versatile
Ken McGregor - You all know I think he’s a HACK, I still do
Jason Torney - Does a defensive job, best I can say about him
Scott Welsh - Fine goal sneak, will enjoy feeding off Carey. OP is a problem

Carey is the BIG talking point, his worth will be evaluated once we have seen if he is over all those injuries. Burns is useless in my opinion, Torney, Begley and Shirley are journeymen at best, so I do believe Kane Johnson’s absence will hurt the Crows. The other factor is can Stevens and Welsh work with Carey, the Roo experience says no, but that may have been all Pagan’s doing, we will have to wait and see.

No predictions yet, other than to say that if the Crows could make the 2002 finals, they should do likewise in 2003.

A pretty good job mate in your assessment of the Crows list just a couple of points i would like to make are,

Mark Bickley being labled a thug in my opinion is a bit harsh for 1 indiscetion which i'm sure he will regret for ever,

Ronnie Burns will either prove a coup for the Crows or a non event if he does not fire as he has not cost us much,

Last year Tyson Edwards was not far from being known as a "star" to the rest of the footy public but he is a "star" to me & many other Crow supporters,

Ken McGregor came on in leaps & bounds last year & with an injury free 2003 i think you might change your mind about him,

Jason Torney i'm inclined to agree with you as since we have drafted him i have watched a few Richmond games on fox paying special attention to him & although he goes in hard his delivery of the ball leaves a bit to be desired,

Scott Welsh is more than a goal sneak & with a bit of luck with his OP complaint could even spend time on the ball, not only is he a good mark & kick but he also fights hard to keep the ball in the forward zone with his tackling & chasing,

On Wayne Carey no one really thinks he will ever be as good as he once was but if he plays for most of the season & in the finals then we have a bloody fine chance of winning our 3rd premiership,

 

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by Asgardian

Mark Bickley - THUG, still playing well
Ronnie Burns - Use by date expired, dud hack
Wayne Carey - Was the MAN, injuries?, time away?, motivations?, may be still great
James Gallagher - Lost his way, slipping down the queue
Ken McGregor - You all know I think he’s a HACK, I still do
Mark Stevens - Fine player, but can he combine with Carey, couldn’t at the Roos

Like just about everyone else I think that your assesments Asgardian were more or less OK except for the first five of the six I have repeated here.

Bickley let himself be hassled on one occassion in his career and totally lost the plot for maybe a second or two ... and did totally the wrong thing. Doesn't make him a thug, only human & capable of an error.

Ronnie Burns - there is some hope that he might be able to turn his form around, but I agree that he certainly needs to do that. Burn's best form makes the grade - his form of late does not. Only make the side if he improves - but then again if he improves & does make the side, could be an asset.

Wayne Carey - depends only on injury factors - no trouble with the time away or with motivation, as he won't want to be remembered as the player of his current standing. You don't lose an ability (say how to ride a bike) after only a year of not doing it.

James Gallagher - another one who has ability but didn't show it in 2002 due only to injuries he sustained. If he gets a decent tilt at season 2003 will be back in the playing squad & contributing.

McGregor - I think a reasonable player can have a period of bad form (especially at the start of a career), but a true HACK can't have any sort of sustained period of fairly consistent good form. McGregor did have quite a good year in 2002 except for the first few rounds when he was injured (and didn't play). He held down CHB pretty well for most of the season. IMO a true HACK player could not have done that. I think McGregor is just a slow developer & has a fair chance of progressing even further in 2003 than the reasonable stage of development he attained in 2002.

Stevens - IMO the reason he didn't combine well with Carey at the Kangaroos is that Pagan had Stevens pigeon-holed as Carey's understudy. That won't be the case at the Crows.

 

[crowsfan]

Good to hear your thoughts there Asgardian.

Like a lot of other posters here, I think you are being too harsh on Bicks as well. It's unfair to classify and generalize him on one uncharacteristic incident.

Reckon the ratings of Begley, Torney and Mattner should be a tad higher.

Stevens, Welsh and Carey may not have combined that great when they were at the Roos, but things have changed a lot since then, obviously. Stevens and Welsh are a class higher and have a lot more experience now, so the combo of the 3 ex-Roos should do well this year.

 

[crowsfan]

Sorry, double post

 

[Ozzie]

Crows have 2 steals out of the trading period. Burns and Begley. These 2 will play regular senior footy this coming year.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Asgardian
G’day Crowies, time to create trouble, lol

James Begley - Doubt if he’ll see much Crow time, better options available
Mark Bickley - THUG, still playing well
Ronnie Burns - Use by date expired, dud hack
Wayne Carey - Was the MAN, injuries?, time away?, motivations?, may be still great
Andrew Crowell - Probably just me, I don’t think he’s much of a player
James Gallagher - Lost his way, slipping down the queue
Chris Ladhams - A bit better than Essendon thought he was
Ken McGregor - You all know I think he’s a HACK, I still do
Ben Rutten - Strikes me as Crows future CHB
Mark Stevens - Fine player, but can he combine with Carey, couldn’t at the Roos
Jason Torney - Does a defensive job, best I can say about him

OK my turn

James Begley If he can stay healthy there is lot to like about this fella. Blighty thought he would be a future captain of the Saints. Pretty good wrap from one of the greats

Mark Bickley not a thug. One moment of insanity shouldn't ruin ones great career

Ronnie Burns I think he will deliver if his motivation and dedication to pre-season is anything to go by

Wayne Carey Time off has done him good. He is extremely motivated the only uncertainty is injuries. Won't be as good as he was but will be very good for us

Andrew Crowell He is not a star but is very good at stopping quick small forwards such as Milne, Farmer etc...

James Gallagher had injuries at crutial times in 2002. Will be back better than ever in 2003. Ready made replacement for Kane Johnson. Absolute excitement machine!!!!

Chris Ladhams Bombers always thought he was very good its just that Chris didn't want to play for Bombers anymore and moved back to Adelaide in search of more opportunities. Essendon were not very happy when he quit and they had to delist him

Ken McGregor He won't be a superstar but is a very good CHB with a lot more development in him. A dud doesn't hold down CHB for a team that finishes 3 after 22 rounds and plays consistent footy after coming back from pretty bad injury

Ben Rutten He strikes me as a future CHF for the Crows not CHB

Mark Stevens He was young and was not given a lot of freedom at the Roos. Carey was the Forward line of the Roos. At the rules players delivering into forward line had to A) look for Carey; B) look for Carey; .... Z) if Carey is well covered pass to someone else. This is will not be the case with the Crows, both Carey and Stevens are experienced veterans

Jason Torney He won't be a star but will be very handy. Primarily recruited to play across HB and free Tyson Edwards into the midfield as a ready made replacemnt for Kane Johnson. Torney will be good, hard consistent performer.

 

[macca23]

Re: Re: 2003 Squad preview, by me ****

Originally posted by Stiffy_18


James Begley If he can stay healthy there is lot to like about this fella. Blighty thought he would be a future captain of the Saints. Pretty good wrap from one of the greats

Jason Torney He won't be a star but will be very handy. Primarily recruited to play across HB and free Tyson Edwards into the midfield as a ready made replacemnt for Kane Johnson. Torney will be good, hard consistent performer.

The advantage of having Begley is that whether he is in the best 22 or not, he is part of the overall depth and will be putting pressure on other players for their spot. That raises everybody's standards including his.

I see Torney exactly as you have - a good, hard, consistent performer recruited for HB or back pocket to free up Tyson Edwards into the midfield. I heard Edwards in an interview about 2 weeks ago saying that he hoped to be spending a lot more time as a mid-fielder and on-baller in 2003.

I also think that John**** will blossom in 2003, by being allowed to play in defence all year due to the greater options we now have up forward

 

[Jerome]

Re: Re: 2003 Squad preview, by me ****

Originally posted by Stiffy_18


Ben Rutten He strikes me as a future CHF for the Crows not CHB

I can see him doing both. Which is what we need - a versatile big man.

I watched him during a scratch match a couple of weeks ago and they are playing him at full back. That's where I think he could be really handy for us at the minute. Bassett's great, but we need some height and strength down back and he could fill that role for us.

Jerome

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

thought i would just add my 2 cents worth regarding torney.
he was very much underated by the so called experts.
while his disposal at times let him down he has great elusive abilty in tight situations and for his size he is not afraid to back into the pack.
the crows have certainly got a very reliable defender on their hands.
i wish torney all the best for 2003 and beyond.

cheers!

 

[noddy]

Originally posted by tiger of old
thought i would just add my 2 cents worth regarding torney.
he was very much underated by the so called experts.
while his disposal at times let him down he has great elusive abilty in tight situations and for his size he is not afraid to back into the pack.
the crows have certainly got a very reliable defender on their hands.
i wish torney all the best for 2003 and beyond.

cheers!

Cheers mate, that seems to be a fair assessment of J Torney maybe with D Jarman spending a bit of time with him his disposal can improve to go with his hard at it game.

 

[crowsfan]

Originally posted by tiger of old
thought i would just add my 2 cents worth regarding torney.
he was very much underated by the so called experts.

It's always seemed that a lot of our top players have been underated by a lot of people. Goody was for a while back. The same can also be said for Stevo and Edwards. That happened last year when Walls and other "experts" dismissed us, but I think I've always liked the underdog status b/c then people underestimate us and that works for us favourably as we can utilize the element of surprise. So, if Torney is again underated by others, I think that can work well for us. No problems with that from me.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Re: Re: Re: 2003 Squad preview, by me ****

Originally posted by Jerome
I can see him doing both. Which is what we need - a versatile big man.

I watched him during a scratch match a couple of weeks ago and they are playing him at full back. That's where I think he could be really handy for us at the minute. Bassett's great, but we need some height and strength down back and he could fill that role for us.

Jerome

I have no doubt he is capable of plaing all KPs. There is no doubt he will start as a defender but will eventually be a Forward a bit like Stevens in recent years from best CHB to best CHF on our list. I have a funny feeling that if Crows want to play 3 talls in the forward line Nathan Bock will be the 3rd option. He can take a strong overhead and is a very good with his skills below the knees. He would be pretty tough to match up on him!!!!!!

 

[Crows.ok]

Re: Re: Re: Re: 2003 Squad preview, by me ****

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I have no doubt he is capable of plaing all KPs. There is no doubt he will start as a defender but will eventually be a Forward a bit like Stevens in recent years from best CHB to best CHF on our list. I have a funny feeling that if Crows want to play 3 talls in the forward line Nathan Bock will be the 3rd option. He can take a strong overhead and is a very good with his skills below the knees. He would be pretty tough to match up on him!!!!!!

Do you mean Bock or Hentschell ?

 

[Stiffy_18]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 2003 Squad preview, by me ****

Originally posted by Crows.ok
Do you mean Bock or Hentschell ?

I mean Nathan Bock. I am still not convinced that Hentshel will get a game early in the season. Maybe late in the season he will get a couple of AFL games. He only played half of 2002 in what was his development year. I just feel that he is slightly behind the 8 ball at the start of the season. He might get a game in the pre-season cup. If we beat the powder in the pre-season match our 2nd game is in Darwin so there is a good chance that he might get a crack in that game.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Re: Re: Re: 2003 Squad preview, by me ****

Originally posted by Jerome
I can see him doing both. Which is what we need - a versatile big man.

I watched him during a scratch match a couple of weeks ago and they are playing him at full back. That's where I think he could be really handy for us at the minute. Bassett's great, but we need some height and strength down back and he could fill that role for us.

Jerome

Good call Jerome. I think Rutten is capable of playing CHF / CHB in time. It is useful to have some flexibility with the KPP, so you can mix it up a bit when required. I see us easing him into the backline this year & used as a cameo up forward. But I reckon he will be our main CHF in a few years time as he has a quick & creative footy brain (which I'm not convinced Kenny has).

 

[macca23]

Re: Re: Re: Re: 2003 Squad preview, by me ****

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I have a funny feeling that if Crows want to play 3 talls in the forward line Nathan Bock will be the 3rd option. He can take a strong overhead and is a very good with his skills below the knees. He would be pretty tough to match up on him!!!!!!

You surprised me with this one too, Stiffy, although it's certainly possible. Personally, I think that it will be Hentschel who will get first crack at it because he is a little more physically developed than Bock, and is a natural forward. On the other hand, Bock is more of a utility as he can play forward and back. Certainly I think that one or both of them will play in the pre-season games, as they are both players of the future.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 2003 Squad preview, by me ****

Originally posted by macca23
You surprised me with this one too, Stiffy, although it's certainly possible. Personally, I think that it will be Hentschel who will get first crack at it because he is a little more physically developed than Bock, and is a natural forward. On the other hand, Bock is more of a utility as he can play forward and back. Certainly I think that one or both of them will play in the pre-season games, as they are both players of the future.

Yeah, I'm with you Macca with Hentschel more likely to play forward than Bock, who I see more as a defender. With Bock, he isn't stronger enough to play a key back post (unlike say Rutten) & I can't see him taking a flank ahead of Hart, Smart, Torney, etc. I would be interested to know what position AFC have in mind for Nathan Bock.

 

[macca23]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 2003 Squad preview, by me ****

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin

I would be interested to know what position AFC have in mind for Nathan Bock.

Perhaps it is to be that well-known Port Adelaide position - the project player!!

He is tall enough to be a KPP but will take a bit of time because he is on the thinnish side and will have to do a lot of weight work to bulk up. When he played in the Wizard cup last year, off memory he played as a forward pocket.

Like you I would be interested as to where the AFC see Bock playing in the long-term. Because he can play forward and back in time he he could well be the 3rd tall in defence or a nuisance value from the forward pocket if he doesn't make it as a KPP.