2010 Midfield(s) - Rate

[The Donners]

So ignorant. Best Dees midfielder in a weak side with no hype. Think transferring Montagna or Dal Santo to the Dees...they would be invisible!

Mclean at Carlton will be a gun. At the bombers, he'd be a walk up start!

Who would McLean replace at Essendon? I'll be interested to have your thoughts on this, it's easy saying he'll be a walk up start but perhaps not so when it comes to bumping someone else out of the team. Who will McLean replace at Carlton for that matter? Will Gibbs be fixed at half-back? Will Simpson be dropped to the Bullants? Will Murphy become a permanent forward? I realise you need that style of player but something must give.

How often do good players in weak sides change teams and become quality players? How's Travis Johnstone going at Brisbane? It's a fallacy that by taking out a weak side's best midfielder (even though Sylvia is far better) or one of their better players that they'll become gun players at better sides.

I'll say that even with the inclusion of GC/GWS when the talent pool is dilluted, McLean will be hard pressed to be getting a gig on an AFL list when his current Carlton contract expires.

 

[HibSam]

I could be St.Kildas captain. They give them out like powerades. No honour at all.

Still have to be a good player to get it.

Think your all fogetting about Adelaide crows..
Vince is gonna explode next year. Brownlow for sure!
Id say if all were fit:
Geelong
Hawthorn
Western Bulldogs
Saint Kilda
Adelaide Crows/Collingwood

Then you've West Coast, Blues, Essendon, Port, Lions..

I think that's where everyone has placed the Crows - somewhere around 5th to 7th. No one is forgetting them.

Hawks 08 side proves otherwise. Finals ring a bell? over 40 in the bag!

Don't forget 2009! The more recent season where we beat you, without any of our best midfielders. Besides Goddard, Gram, Hayes, Montagna and Dal Santo have all improved from 2008.

 

[ok.crows]

I think that's where everyone has placed the Crows - somewhere around 5th to 7th. No one is forgetting them.

Perhaps what people are forgetting is that the Crows always perform about three places better (sometimes more) than where everyone places them. Last year at this time, for example, people placed the Crows outside the best eight.

 

[Natia9]

Man i miss the days where i could say
Judd + Cousins + Kerr + Fletcher + Stinga + Cox (played as a mid)

but now it alot different

Kerr + Selwood + Masten + Priddis + Swift + Cox (plays as a mid)

 

[King_Tredrea]

IMO Shaun Burgoyne's best is better than anyone in the comp. Hopefully we never see it again however.

 

[bluekidjoe]

Who would McLean replace at Essendon? I'll be interested to have your thoughts on this, it's easy saying he'll be a walk up start but perhaps not so when it comes to bumping someone else out of the team. Who will McLean replace at Carlton for that matter? Will Gibbs be fixed at half-back? Will Simpson be dropped to the Bullants? Will Murphy become a permanent forward? I realise you need that style of player but something must give.

How often do good players in weak sides change teams and become quality players? How's Travis Johnstone going at Brisbane? It's a fallacy that by taking out a weak side's best midfielder (even though Sylvia is far better) or one of their better players that they'll become gun players at better sides.

I'll say that even with the inclusion of GC/GWS when the talent pool is dilluted, McLean will be hard pressed to be getting a gig on an AFL list when his current Carlton contract expires.

Hahaha, don't make me giggle mate...
He is an 'inside' mid, which means the ones with the pace (Judd, Walker, Simmo) and the ones with the silky disposal (Murph, Gibbs) get the pill fed out to them by a player better than Hadley (who previousy held the extractor role)..
And he doesn't have to become a superstar, all he has to do is his job of making it easier for us to get it into the hands of the blokes who can use it...
Stevo has retired, there's a spot openned up...

 

[The Donners]

Hahaha, don't make me giggle mate...
He is an 'inside' mid, which means the ones with the pace (Judd, Walker, Simmo) and the ones with the silky disposal (Murph, Gibbs) get the pill fed out to them by a player better than Hadley (who previousy held the extractor role)..
And he doesn't have to become a superstar, all he has to do is his job of making it easier for us to get it into the hands of the blokes who can use it...
Stevo has retired, there's a spot openned up...

I'd say Stevens played all of about 5mins in the midfield in 2009. Hadley has held the extractor role in 17 games of a possible 45.

So it'll be your best tagger in Joseph that gets the chop or are you going to play him as a small defender? Haha now it's me who is giggling.

It'll be like shelling peas for the opposition to pick off McLean, no strength through his hips. He'll be dishing it off so quick that it'll look fantastic on the occasion but will look horribly bad when he turns it over.

I personally didn't think Carlton should've sort after McLean, a player like McLean yes, but not McLean. Ball would've been better and pick 11 would've nabbed him.

 

[Claude Balls]

and the ones with the silky disposal (Murph, Gibbs)

Marc Murphy has silky disposal?

 

[Claude Balls]

I see little difference between Burgoyne and Lovett, only Burgoyne's best was 3 years ago. They're both unaccountable, both well skilled... only difference is Lovett is quick.

Contrary to your rather stereotypical view, Burgoyne was no slouch at winning his own ball, and he was damn good at getting large amounts of clearances. Most people with a well functioning memory will realise that his best is far better than Lovett's, and he was only a rung down from the consistently elite mids of that time.

 

[Deep Blue]

Yeah, I agree...though I am biased

Mitchell
Hodge
Sewell
Burgoyne
Lewis
Rioli
Bateman
Young

Man having Burgoyne and Bateman streaming past the insiders is going to be awesome not to mention Youngy!

Hard-at-the-ball and skillful midfield that is arguably just better than Geelong's; Burgoyne is the cherry on top! However, if rucks are considered an integral part of a successful midfield then with the retirement of Campbell you'd seriously have to rank the Hawks rucks down the bottom of the list and this therefore derates their midfield somewhat.

 

[Deep Blue]

Marc Murphy has silky disposal?

Yes - has come a long way with his disposal; kicked quite a few goals as well and did alright in the Brownlow.

 

[The Donners]

Contrary to your rather stereotypical view, Burgoyne was no slouch at winning his own ball, and he was damn good at getting large amounts of clearances. Most people with a well functioning memory will realise that his best is far better than Lovett's, and he was only a rung down from the consistently elite mids of that time.

Burgoyne '06, average disp. 20.8, goals 20
Lovett '09, average disp. 20.9, goals 21

Can't find the stats for clearances but he can't be winning too much of his own ball if he averages less disposals than Lovett (and which I've state previously, Burgoyne wasn't ranked in the top 50 disposals for '06 - his only very good year).

 

[hawkstars]

Marc Murphy has silky disposal?

Yeh made me laugh too.

 

[The Donners]

Yes - has come a long way with his disposal; kicked quite a few goals as well and did alright in the Brownlow.

I liken him to Stanton in this regard, fantastic kick for goal but unreliable around the ground by foot. It is an area that he has improved on though better than Stanton, in my opinion.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hard-at-the-ball and skillful midfield that is arguably just better than Geelong's; Burgoyne is the cherry on top! However, if rucks are considered an integral part of a successful midfield then with the retirement of Campbell you'd seriously have to rank the Hawks rucks down the bottom of the list and this therefore derates their midfield somewhat.

Depends on how you rate ruckman.
The so called best ones in the league sit in some of the poorer performing teams in the comp. Sandilands, Cox, McIntosh etc.
All a good midfield needs these days is a competing ruckman who can get his hands on the ball the equal amount of his opponent. Midfields like Geelong, Hawthorn, St Kilda etc have good inside mids who can dominate without a dominant ruck.

 

[Gautama]

Burgoyne '06, average disp. 20.8, goals 20
Lovett '09, average disp. 20.9, goals 21

Can't find the stats for clearances but he can't be winning too much of his own ball if he averages less disposals than Lovett (and which I've state previously, Burgoyne wasn't ranked in the top 50 disposals for '06 - his only very good year).

This is total crap. Ask any Port fan and they'll name you dozens of games where Burgoyne dominated the clearances. As one Hawthorn supporter mentioned there was one game towards the end of 2008 (I think) where he won something like fifteen clearances, that would be more than Lovett could manage in a season. He doesn't win enough ball around the ground but to say he doesn't get his own ball is preposterous.

 

[Kramer1]

I'd say Stevens played all of about 5mins in the midfield in 2009. Hadley has held the extractor role in 17 games of a possible 45.

You would be quite wrong. You seem to be labouring under the impression that a midfield is made up of three players and a ruckman. With huge amounts of rotations, less emphasis on positional play due to flooding, and seemingly more stoppages around the ground, all teams midfields run deeper than that.

If you watched any Carlton games this year (and yes I know the results of the Essendon games) you will have seen what a fit Hadley did for the rest of the midfield. When he was fit and played well we generally won and won well.

You might have also noticed that we were smashed around clearances and lost bucketloads of momentum every time Judd went off for a breather. McLean aint no Judd, but you take the two facts above into consideration and it's plain to see why we went for him.

So it'll be your best tagger in Joseph that gets the chop or are you going to play him as a small defender? Haha now it's me who is giggling.

Giggle away. The few times he played in defense he did well. In hindsight Rhan Hooper might not be much of a benchmark, but held him to very few touches and zero impact when he played the entire game on him earlier in the year.

It'll be like shelling peas for the opposition to pick off McLean, no strength through his hips. He'll be dishing it off so quick that it'll look fantastic on the occasion but will look horribly bad when he turns it over.

I personally didn't think Carlton should've sort after McLean, a player like McLean yes, but not McLean. Ball would've been better and pick 11 would've nabbed him.

WTF?

 

[Elite]

WTF?

He means a player like McLean, but not McLean

 

[Kramer1]

He means a player like McLean, but not McLean

Ahh I see...

 

[The Donners]

<Post>

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Kramer1]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I never agreed to that...

 

[Claude Balls]

Burgoyne '06, average disp. 20.8, goals 20
Lovett '09, average disp. 20.9, goals 21

Can't find the stats for clearances but he can't be winning too much of his own ball if he averages less disposals than Lovett (and which I've state previously, Burgoyne wasn't ranked in the top 50 disposals for '06 - his only very good year).

Soooo0, you didn't bother to look up contested posessions or clearances, but nonetheless asserted that Burgoyne couldn't be winning much of his own ball because he averaged .1 disposals per game less than Lovett...

Did I get that right?

 

[The Donners]

Soooo0, you didn't bother to look up contested posessions or clearances, but nonetheless asserted that Burgoyne couldn't be winning much of his own ball because he averaged .1 disposals per game less than Lovett...

Did I get that right?

Wrong, I couldn't find anywhere that provided me with the clearance or hardball statistics.

I asserted that Burgoyne couldn't be winning much of his own ball because a) he was ranked outside the top 50 for disposals in '06, and b) he received less of the pill than Lovett.

If you could provide me with an appropriate link I'd be greatly appreciative.

 

[Claude Balls]

Wrong, I couldn't find anywhere that provided me with the clearance or hardball statistics.

I asserted that Burgoyne couldn't be winning much of his own ball because a) he was ranked outside the top 50 for disposals in '06, and b) he received less of the pill than Lovett.

If you could provide me with an appropriate link I'd be greatly appreciative.

So, you couldn't find any contested posession or clearance stats, but nonetheless asserted that Burgoyne couldn't be winning much of his own ball in general because he average only 20.8 posessions per game, and couldn't be getting more hard ball than Lovett becuase he average .1 posessions less than him.

Is that better?

 

[The Donners]

So, you couldn't find any contested posession or clearance stats, but nonetheless asserted that Burgoyne couldn't be winning much of his own ball in general because he average only 20.8 posessions per game, and couldn't be getting more hard ball than Lovett becuase he average .1 posessions less than him.

Is that better?

You failed to mention he didn't get in the top 50 for disposals in '06 either but much better.

Can you find any statistics? Forget Lovett for a second, how does he stack up against the elite? I'm interested.