2012 List Management - Drafts, Trading and Delistings

[doggies ftw]

GWS wouldn't go that deal, they will do much better than that for MD2.

Anderson can play next year.

Stringer will play forward first 3-4 years but eventually his best work will be as a midfielder resting forward. I don't know why you would want Hogan before Stringer though as Stringer can do everything that Hogan can up forward plus has the ability to be a Martin/Dangerfield type midfielder, he is a freak of a footballer and has been from a young age.

Yeah I'm not expecting them too but I'm sure we could work out something that could get it done while still keeping a pick around 10, I just think Hogan would be better if we wanted a pure KPF option, but the more I think about the more I wan't Stringer too, he would compliment our midfield perfectly. We will have the inside grunt types like Smith/Wallis/Libba, then we will have the flashy outside players in Martin (if we get him) Dahlhaus, Tutt (not saying these guys are only outside players and not inside/outside, but you know what I mean) and then we will have Stringer as the beast, fast/skillfull/huge/strong who will just crash his way through packs destroying everything in his path.

Yep I think I'm on the Stringer train now! Anderson, Martin and Stringer have my babies!

 

[doggies ftw]

Have you even seen them play? Different types.
Hogan is a genuine key forward, Stringer is more your 3rd tall. Stringer is not a key forward.

Yeah agreed, if we feel we need another genuine KPF player then I would hope we would take Hogan over Stringer, but if we feel we want a third tall forward/midfielder then we should go Stringer.

 

[dogwatch]

... and then we will have Stringer as the beast, fast/skillfull/huge/strong who will just crash his way through packs destroying everything in his path.

Ahhh, ya gotta love the sheer unbridled optimism of the off-season!
The AFL dream time.
No wonder we get down on these blokes when the season starts and it turns out they can only jump small buildings in a single bound, can only kick a wheat bag over the shed and not over the whole silo, and are only faster than a speeding gazelle.

 

[doggies ftw]

Ahhh, ya gotta love the sheer unbridled optimism of the off-season!
The AFL dream time.
No wonder we get down on these blokes when the season starts and it turns out they can only jump small buildings in a single bound, can only kick a wheat bag over the shed and not over the whole silo, and are only faster than a speeding gazelle.

He will probably win the Coleman next year, playing from the midfield. and if he doesn't...

 

[100action]

you're such a party pooper dw.

 

[Werewolf]

Stringer is more your 3rd tall. Stringer is not a key forward.

Without having seen him play, he sounds like an improved version of Mitch Hahn

 

[BRG93]

Let's make a play for John Patton he has one year on his contract and can't be on very much and he hasn't extended his contract yet, why not

 

[StringyDog]

Have you even seen them play? Different types.
Hogan is a genuine key forward, Stringer is more your 3rd tall. Stringer is not a key forward.

I never said he was a key forward, but Stringer is not a third tall at all, he is a big midfielder that plays forward at times, more so since his injury. I'm tipping I have seen more of Stringer in the flesh than anyone on this board due to where he played his junior footy hence why I have pushed for him to be top of draft list since start of year even before every johnny come lately. The point I was making is that such is his talent he can have as much impact up forward as Hogan despite it not even being his best position.

 

[Footscrazy]

Let's make a play for John Patton he has one year on his contract and can't be on very much and he hasn't extended his contract yet, why not

GWS can afford to pay him whatever he wants. No chance in hell they lose Patton or Cameron.

 

[THE_GUN]

Yep, we would probably still manage to find someone upset at Anderson + Martin + Pick 9 for 5 + 6.

I think the best outcome would be Anderson + Martin + Hogan (which I think is realistic, IF they are happy with the current deal, but for all we know it could just be some bs rumour)

But I would want another first round draft pick for this year if that was the case, but maybe we could get Hogan off GWS without giving up pick 9? I'm sure they would be interested in a Williams or something similar, big bodied player + a 2nd rounder etc.

just a rough trade

Tigers -
Gain: Tyson, Lose: Pick 9 and Nahas
GWS -
Gain: Picks 5 + 6 + 27 + Nahas + Williams (or other similar big bodied experienced player)
Lose: MD#1+2, Anderson, Tyson
WB -
Gain: Martin, Hogan, Anderson, Pick 9 (Macrae/Orourke hopefully)
Lose: Picks 5 + 6 + 27 + Williams (etc)

Win win win really, Tigers get their man and don't give up too much, GWS Get 2 top 10 picks, one top 30 pick which would probably be their last pick in the draft, and two experienced players for only Anderson and Tyson.
We get Martin, a KPF, Anderson and pick 9 while only losing our first 3 picks and an experienced player.

Obviously it would need touching up but hey thats for the people who get paid to do this to do, not for me.

Also Anderson can play AFL next year right? He doesn't have to wait til 2014?

And on Stringer, do people see him becoming our Full Forward or more in the midfield, he definitely looks like he could be a star and I would be all for getting him (would only want one of him or Hogan though, and would probably prefer Hogan)

WOW !!!!

So Tigers give up #9 And Nahas -25 yo small foward that played 22 games & Kicked 35 goals this year, total 97 games in 5 years, For an unproven pick #3 - Not losing much


WB give up 5 + 6 + 27 .............. And williams - He actually makes your offer worse
Williams was drafted in 2004 and has only played 76 games - Just 3 last year (averages 9 games a year)
Can you really see him getting a game at GWS ???

WOW !!! Dude really have to be realistic

 

[IanW]

Lose: MD#1+2, Anderson, Tyson

These are the four bits of currency GWS have in play - MD1, MD2, Anderson and Tyson.

First of all, Im relaxed and comfortable about Tyson making the same decision as Coniglio and eventually deciding to stay with GWS. I also wouldnt read anything into Patton not extending - he spent most of the year injured.

Secondly, I can see how we'd fit Anderson in our list. Kids pretty darn good, and is a probable top 10.

Third, we must trade MD1 and MD2, and Melbourne want Hogan in any case.

That said, they are all about equally valuable - about a top 10 pick.

Now, GWS are likely to be only taking 4 people out of this draft, including our NT picks. Therefore, a #27 isnt very valuable for us at all (honestly, I'd prefer a Markovic/Hooker type - a journeyman who has finished growing and is worth a spot in a list).

Your 5 and 6, are very valuable to us, especially if Viney goes at 3.

Therefore, the deal is fundamentally over your 5 and 6, with the possible use of our later round picks and your Markovic and similar as "steak knives".

GWS and WB are well placed to deal - are you prepared to use both first rounders, and which of our 4 bits of draft currency do you want most ?

 

[AjsGuns]

These are the four bits of currency GWS have in play - MD1, MD2, Anderson and Tyson.

First of all, Im relaxed and comfortable about Tyson making the same decision as Coniglio and eventually deciding to stay with GWS. I also wouldnt read anything into Patton not extending - he spent most of the year injured.

Secondly, I can see how we'd fit Anderson in our list. Kids pretty darn good, and is a probable top 10.

Third, we must trade MD1 and MD2, and Melbourne want Hogan in any case.

That said, they are all about equally valuable - about a top 10 pick.

Now, GWS are likely to be only taking 4 people out of this draft, including our NT picks. Therefore, a #27 isnt very valuable for us at all (honestly, I'd prefer a Markovic/Hooker type - a journeyman who has finished growing and is worth a spot in a list).

Your 5 and 6, are very valuable to us, especially if Viney goes at 3.

Therefore, the deal is fundamentally over your 5 and 6, with the possible use of our later round picks and your Markovic and similar as "steak knives".

GWS and WB are well placed to deal - are you prepared to use both first rounders, and which of our 4 bits of draft currency do you want most ?

I'll bite,
5 + 6 for MD1 + MD2 + Anderson.

 

[IanW]

I'll bite,
5 + 6 for MD1 + MD2 + Anderson.

Nope.

Anderson aint steak knives.

 

[AjsGuns]

Nope.

Anderson aint steak knives.

Anderson isn't top 10 imo, his a late 1st rounder about 15-20 (Knightmare puts him at 17, i think around 15). Assuming Viney is taken at 3 the 5 + 6 are essentially 4 + 5, I can't see any other club offering you a top 6 pick for a MD pick, think of it as pick 6 for MD1 and pick 5 for MD2 + Anderson, If you dont deal with us your probably going to get something like Ports pick 7 or MD1 and Carltons Pick 11 for MD2, We can throw in Markovic if you like! GC has Toumpas locked in at 2 and Melbourne wouldn't give pick 4 for MD2 (Hogan). You would assume pick 5 would net you Grundy as well who you guys seem to be after (1 - Whitfield, 2 - Toumpas, 3 - Viney, 4 - Mayes)

 

[IanW]

Anderson isn't top 10 imo, his a late 1st rounder about 15-20 (Knightmare puts him at 17, i think around 15). Assuming Viney is taken at 3 the 5 + 6 are essentially 4 + 5, I can't see any other club offering you a top 6 pick for a MD pick, think of it as pick 6 for MD1 and pick 5 for MD2 + Anderson, If you dont deal with us your probably going to get something like Ports pick 7 or MD1 and Carltons Pick 11 for MD2, We can throw in Markovic if you like! GC has Toumpas locked in at 2 and Melbourne wouldn't give pick 4 for MD2 (Hogan).

AJsguns,

OK, I'll buy your logic, although I can see Melbourne dealing for MD1 with their #4.

MD1 to WB as a straight up for #6/Martin, MD2 to Carlton for #11/Hogan.

Means GWS ends up with 6, 11 and Anderson rather than 5 and 6.

I can live with that - 11+16ish is more or less 5.

Two bits of trade currency for two high draft picks is about right. Two for three ? That would be like asking 5 and 6 for MD1 alone.

 

[AjsGuns]

AJsguns,

OK, I'll buy your logic, although I can see Melbourne dealing for MD1 with their #4.

MD1 to WB as a straight up for #6/Martin, MD2 to Carlton for #11/Hogan.

Means GWS ends up with 6, 11 and Anderson rather than 5 and 6.

I can live with that - 11+16ish is more or less 5.

Two bits of trade currency for two high draft picks is about right. Two for three ? That would be like asking 5 and 6 for MD1 alone.

I guess it depends how highly you rate Anderson alot of people have him around 15-20 but you rate him 10ish, the MD picks are also use it or lose it which puts us in a better position than GWS. I would prefer 5 than picks 11+16, 5 would get your man Grundy as well who GWS want desperately. Looking at 2 random drafts:

2005:
pick 5 - Scott Pendlebury
Pick 11 - Shaun Higgins
Pick 16 - Richard Douglas

2006:
pick 5 - Travis Boak
Pick 11 - Andrejs Everitt
Pick 16 - Mitch Brown

Suggests pick 5 > picks 11+16

My final offer to GWS would be 5 + 6 + Markovic for MD1 + MD2 + Anderson.

 

[fronkalicious]

AJsguns,

OK, I'll buy your logic, although I can see Melbourne dealing for MD1 with their #4.

MD1 to WB as a straight up for #6/Martin, MD2 to Carlton for #11/Hogan.

Means GWS ends up with 6, 11 and Anderson rather than 5 and 6.

I can live with that - 11+16ish is more or less 5.

Two bits of trade currency for two high draft picks is about right. Two for three ? That would be like asking 5 and 6 for MD1 alone.

Hey Ian

Thanks for stopping by and some good perspective from you.

What gws can throw our way are your 2nd and 3rd round picks which will be valuable to us, but that you won't use.

How about:

Gws get - pick 5 and Tom Williams
Wb get - md 1, Anderson and your 2nd rounder.

We'll give you pick 5 instead of 6 for martin. Then it's Williams (who Leon Cameron loves) for Anderson (slated around 15-20 in the draft) and a 2nd rounder as thanks for giving up pick 5 instead of 6.

We can then try and package our 2 second rounders (and possibly lake) to try and land another first round pick.

 

[Zgope1]

i'd use 5

These are the four bits of currency GWS have in play - MD1, MD2, Anderson and Tyson.

First of all, Im relaxed and comfortable about Tyson making the same decision as Coniglio and eventually deciding to stay with GWS. I also wouldnt read anything into Patton not extending - he spent most of the year injured.

Secondly, I can see how we'd fit Anderson in our list. Kids pretty darn good, and is a probable top 10.

Third, we must trade MD1 and MD2, and Melbourne want Hogan in any case.

That said, they are all about equally valuable - about a top 10 pick.

Now, GWS are likely to be only taking 4 people out of this draft, including our NT picks. Therefore, a #27 isnt very valuable for us at all (honestly, I'd prefer a Markovic/Hooker type - a journeyman who has finished growing and is worth a spot in a list).

Your 5 and 6, are very valuable to us, especially if Viney goes at 3.

Therefore, the deal is fundamentally over your 5 and 6, with the possible use of our later round picks and your Markovic and similar as "steak knives".

GWS and WB are well placed to deal - are you prepared to use both first rounders, and which of our 4 bits of draft currency do you want most ?

i'd give you 5 and 6 for martin hogan and anderson

 

[IanW]

My final offer to GWS would be 5 + 6 + Markovic for MD1 + MD2 + Anderson.

Sorry we couldnt do business - Markovic is about third-round value, and Anderson is 16ish.

If you want Martin, then it looks like it's the fallback of MD1 or 2 for 5 or 6 then.

How about:

Gws get - pick 5 and Tom Williams
Wb get - md 1, Anderson and your 2nd rounder.

Does Tom Williams want to play for GWS, and whats his cap number likely to be ? He also appears to have a bit of an injury history - he seems to have been injured for long periods in 4 of the last 6 years.

MD1 for pick 5 is about value. Therefore, the deal is essentially Williams for Anderson and a second.

Honestly, I'd be more interested in just paying the second for Markovic or Williams.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

I'd give you pick #5 for Martin, and we would get Martin and your third round pick as you won't use it anyway.

OR

Pick #5 for Martin along with Marko - we get Martin and a second round draft pick, GWS gets #5 and Marko.

 

[fitzroybowiedog]

As much as i rate Martin and Hogan, if we go for both, aren't we going to miss out on quality players in the top 10 this year?

I would like to see how Hogan goes against players his size, yes he is dominant at the moment, but he is a beast, and appears much bigger and stronger than his opponents. that wont happen in the AFL.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Either way top 10 draft picks this year are much more valuable than they were last year. Much better talent in the top 15 really.

 

[IanW]

I'd give you pick #5 for Martin, and we would get Martin and your third round pick as you won't use it anyway.

OR

Pick #5 for Martin along with Marko - we get Martin and a second round draft pick, GWS gets #5 and Marko.

I think both of those deals are about right on value, and in my view they work for both sides.

Done, and pleasure doing business.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

I have not heard that the doggies are interested in Hogan, only Martin, they would have their eye on someone else as well....Stringer, Wines, Mayes, O'Rourke (please)

 

[IanW]

As much as i rate Martin and Hogan, if we go for both, aren't we going to miss out on quality players in the top 10 this year?

I would like to see how Hogan goes against players his size, yes he is dominant at the moment, but he is a beast, and appears much bigger and stronger than his opponents. that wont happen in the AFL.

Personally, I share this concern - the reason I think Cameron went so well in his first year is that he played seniors at 14. It might have been country footy, but how to be an effective player against bigger, stronger men was burned in early.