2012 List Management - Drafts, Trading and Delistings

[Smiley Boy]

Personally, I share this concern - the reason I think Cameron went so well in his first year is that he played seniors at 14. It might have been country footy, but how to be an effective player against bigger, stronger men was burned in early.

This is why i think our perfect result is Stringer who is a bigger body and played VFL this season & Martin who is a freak apparently..

Chuck Hunter in there and we would have cleaned up in this years draft

 

[stefoid]

These are the four bits of currency GWS have in play - MD1, MD2, Anderson and Tyson.

First of all, Im relaxed and comfortable about Tyson making the same decision as Coniglio and eventually deciding to stay with GWS. I also wouldnt read anything into Patton not extending - he spent most of the year injured.

Secondly, I can see how we'd fit Anderson in our list. Kids pretty darn good, and is a probable top 10.

Third, we must trade MD1 and MD2, and Melbourne want Hogan in any case.

That said, they are all about equally valuable - about a top 10 pick.

Now, GWS are likely to be only taking 4 people out of this draft, including our NT picks. Therefore, a #27 isnt very valuable for us at all (honestly, I'd prefer a Markovic/Hooker type - a journeyman who has finished growing and is worth a spot in a list).

Your 5 and 6, are very valuable to us, especially if Viney goes at 3.

Therefore, the deal is fundamentally over your 5 and 6, with the possible use of our later round picks and your Markovic and similar as "steak knives".

GWS and WB are well placed to deal - are you prepared to use both first rounders, and which of our 4 bits of draft currency do you want most ?

Very succinct summary, IanW.

Martin is worth about #5. #6 is overpaying for Hogan. Anderson to make up the difference.

Our fallback position is simply to take the best 4th and 5th available kids in the draft, which is a nice fallback option.
Your fallback option is to take higher draft picks than 5 and 6, mixed with mature players to make up the difference. Mature players, as you have stated, that you cant really fit into the side.

If we are interested in Hogan that is.

This isnt a trade, its an auction.

 

[flipper83]

If GWS don't want to give up Anderson in that trade than how about Towers or Lee with their last prelist spot.

 

[Dorval6]

As much as i rate Martin and Hogan, if we go for both, aren't we going to miss out on quality players in the top 10 this year?

I would like to see how Hogan goes against players his size, yes he is dominant at the moment, but he is a beast, and appears much bigger and stronger than his opponents. that wont happen in the AFL.

Agree. Always my concern with 'big' kids who can dominate at a young age but when everyone catches up they fall back into the pack.

 

[josh the gent]

Nope.

Anderson aint steak knives.

Agreed.

If we want both MD picks and Jed, the trade should be as follows:

WB give: pick 5, 6 and 27
GWS give: MD1, MD2 and Jed Anderson.

Hmm, today has such huge ramifications on the mini-draft though. If GC bid on Viney, and presuming Melbourne take him...

1. I think GWS would be mad to trade with GC, they will be GWS' biggest rivals in the future, so I wouldn't be helping them out. I'd be concentrating on getting deals from other clubs. That is pick 2 out of the way.
2. Melbourne. Currently want Hogan, but will they still want him if they get Dawes?! I actually think they'll get Dawes (they're the most interested), but then their attention might turn to Jack Martin in the MD, not sure. I see them as a bigger risk for MD pick 1, than MD pick 2.

Anyway, just some things to mull over. Can't wait for 2pm...

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Screw this complicated trade bullshit, I'm happy if we just play hardball and give GWS #6 for Martin. If they turn it down, we'll throw in Markovic - if they still refuse, then goodbye, see-you later, have fun.

If they take it we get Martin/Stringer; if they refuse we get something like O'Rourke/Stringer. I love Martin but I'm not giving up everything for him when we could do really well just keeping 5 and 6.

 

[paulveed]

IanW, I am firmly in the pick 6 ..take it or leave it camp. I am also with Dannnnn on the "keep it simple" bandwagon.
For my 2 cents worth, if you want picks 5 & 6 from us, I want Martin and Cameron.
In other words, we keep pick 5 for the talent that is there and available to us this draft.

 

[who_let_the_dogs_out]

Screw this complicated trade bullshit, I'm happy if we just play hardball and give GWS #6 for Martin. If they turn it down, we'll throw in Markovic - if they still refuse, then goodbye, see-you later, have fun.

If they take it we get Martin/Stringer; if they refuse we get something like O'Rourke/Stringer. I love Martin but I'm not giving up everything for him when we could do really well just keeping 5 and 6.

Completely agree.

Won't be gutted if we don't draft Martin, but I will be if we don't nab either of Stringer or Hogan.

 

[zephskinner26]

I'm hoping we get Martin, Anderson and pick 9. Just seems like the best deal. Still bring in two top 15 talents this year and have a top 3 talent to join next years draft pick. Hopefully Stringer falls to 9

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Dickson to Carl (Malthouse interested in Dickson)

Conclusively shows the amount of bullshit on the Trade/FA rumours thread.​

 

[TBOW]

Not sure i would be happy if we gave GC our 2nd rounder for Toy although if GC didn't have those concessions Toy was hyped as a top 3 prospect in his draft so clearly GC aren't getting the best out of him.

I can't see us offering our 2nd rounder for Toy.
Unless the deal was something like Toy Weller and GC's 3rd rounder for our 2nd rounder.
We can then send Weller over to Hawthorn - possibly packaged with Lake?

 

[IanW]

Screw this complicated trade bullshit, I'm happy if we just play hardball and give GWS #6 for Martin. If they turn it down, we'll throw in Markovic - if they still refuse, then goodbye, see-you later, have fun.

I'd do #6 for Martin even without Markovic - I think 6+Marcovic for MD2 is the Dogs overpaying, and that the right deal for that is MD2+GWS' 3rd for pick 6 and Marcovic.

Flipper, yeah, Lee in the last prelist spot is in play too, but he's probably end-of-first-round value.

 

[Anja_Nees]

I'm all for the proposed three way trade with Richmond, provided we're confident that quality will be left at pick nine. I have been told by someone (who really should know) that the mooted three way trade is definitely not fiction - the clubs are discussing it.

The reasons are that a) Martin is potentially an absolute star. We have a lot of players likely to be very good, but you need the odd freakish talent and it's something we're light on. b) three is better than two. We get Anderson, Martin and whoever is available at pick nine instead of just picks five and six. Anderson is not top end talent but most agree that he's a likely type who may be considered a late first round pick. c) if we think the player available at MD2 is better than the player likely to be available at pick 9 we can still have a crack, all the while locking in Anderson and Hunter for this coming season.

 

[fronkalicious]

I can't see us offering our 2nd rounder for Toy.
Unless the deal was something like Toy Weller and GC's 3rd rounder for our 2nd rounder.
We can then send Weller over to Hawthorn - possibly packaged with Lake?

No way we offer our second rounder for toy. And neither for Stevens (hopefully)!

I really see a great opportunity for us to add high 2nd and 3rd round picks from gws in any mini-draft trades that they won't use anyways. They'll be valuable to us and we can use the extra 3rd rounder on bell or toy.

I'd happily look at:

Gws get - Markovic (surely they won't want him though??), pick 6
Wb get - martin, 2nd and 3rd rounder

 

[IanW]

Gws get - Markovic (surely they won't want him though??)

We have an acute lack of big bodies down back - we need a journeyman gorilla down there, to help out Davis and Mohr.

Thats not to say I'd overpay for him, but he's great steak knives in a deal over high-end picks.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I'd do #6 for Martin even without Markovic - I think 6+Marcovic for MD2 is the Dogs overpaying, and that the right deal for that is MD2+GWS' 3rd for pick 6 and Marcovic.

I really have to thank you for your realistic and unbiased analysis on this board; it's really a breath of fresh air.
I would take the second trade - your 3rd rounder is more valuable to us than Marko.

I'm all for the proposed three way trade with Richmond, provided we're confident that quality will be left at pick nine. I have been told by someone (who really should know) that the mooted three way trade is definitely not fiction - the clubs are discussing it.

The reasons are that a) Martin is potentially an absolute star. We have a lot of players likely to be very good, but you need the odd freakish talent and it's something we're light on. b) three is better than two. We get Anderson, Martin and whoever is available at pick nine instead of just picks five and six. Anderson is not top end talent but most agree that he's a likely type who may be considered a late first round pick. c) if we think the player available at MD2 is better than the player likely to be available at pick 9 we can still have a crack, all the while locking in Anderson and Hunter for this coming season.

Don't get me wrong, I like that trade - my issue is simply that GWS are getting ripped off while Richmond rides off into the sunset. I just can't see it happening.

 

[fronkalicious]

I'm all for the proposed three way trade with Richmond, provided we're confident that quality will be left at pick nine. I have been told by someone (who really should know) that the mooted three way trade is definitely not fiction - the clubs are discussing it.

The reasons are that a) Martin is potentially an absolute star. We have a lot of players likely to be very good, but you need the odd freakish talent and it's something we're light on. b) three is better than two. We get Anderson, Martin and whoever is available at pick nine instead of just picks five and six. Anderson is not top end talent but most agree that he's a likely type who may be considered a late first round pick. c) if we think the player available at MD2 is better than the player likely to be available at pick 9 we can still have a crack, all the while locking in Anderson and Hunter for this coming season.

There will be quality left at pick 9 for sure.

These guys will be gone for certain:

Whitfield
Toumpas
Grundy
O'rourke
Mayes
Macrae

Maybe viney as well at 3.

Which leaves guys like plowman, stringer, wines, garlett. 2 or 3 of those will be available.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

There will be quality left at pick 9 for sure.

These guys will be gone for certain:

Whitfield
Toumpas
Grundy
O'rourke
Mayes
Macrae

Maybe viney as well at 3.

Which leaves guys like plowman, stringer, wines, garlett. 2 or 3 of those will be available.

Perhaps that's why I'm not sold on getting pick 9. I don't want to see us use a top 10 pick on Wines.

 

[IanW]

I really have to thank you for your realistic and unbiased analysis on this board; it's really a breath of fresh air.
I would take the second trade - your 3rd rounder is more valuable to us than Marko.

Don't get me wrong, I like that trade - my issue is simply that GWS are getting ripped off while Richmond rides off into the sunset. I just can't see it happening.

Most people treat these trade threads as an excuse to daydream about every other club trying their level best to make the one you barrack for better

 

[Zgope1]

wouldnt be surprised if Membrey slipped into the top 10

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

wouldnt be surprised if Membrey slipped into the top 10

If we got pick 9, if Macrae and Stringer are gone I would love us to pick up Membrey. I genuinely rate him highly and think he could play next year and win our goalkicking. Not that it's a hard feat, but I'd still love him in the side.

 

[Zgope1]

If we got pick 9, if Macrae and Stringer are gone I would love us to pick up Membrey. I genuinely rate him highly and think he could play next year and win our goalkicking. Not that it's a hard feat, but I'd still love him in the side.

I agree. He's got serious presence. Has that real swagger too. Good size, has proven he's quick (which was the knock on him) and he knows how to put it through the big sticks. I think if we end up getting Jack Martin and Jed Anderson i'd want the other play to have a bit of size or at least an inside game. For this reason Macrae, Stringer and Membrey would be right up there. I know you're not a huge fan but i'd love Wines as well

 

[fronkalicious]

I agree. He's got serious presence. Has that real swagger too. Good size, has proven he's quick (which was the knock on him) and he knows how to put it through the big sticks. I think if we end up getting Jack Martin and Jed Anderson i'd want the other play to have a bit of size or at least an inside game. For this reason Macrae, Stringer and Membrey would be right up there. I know you're not a huge fan but i'd love Wines as well

Macrae is a genuine outside runner. Not a ball winner at all.

We need to come away with either stringer or hogan in my book.

I can actually see stringer playing full-forward a la pavlich. He'd compliment jones and Cordy nicely.

 

[paulveed]

Hey thanks IanW and Dannnnn, you guys are raising the standard in these discussions, really enjoying your contributions.

Look we have repeatedly gone down the trading in guys who haven't quite made it for what ever reason at their previous club,
and unlike Sydney, for what ever reason, it just does not seem to work for us. But that [ the why] is probably a topic for another time and thread.

We are not without limits on places on our list. Time we concentrated on quality over quantity. We should be looking at every opportunity in trading
to be improving on our picks, IE trading for upgrades rather than any more fringe players.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I agree. He's got serious presence. Has that real swagger too. Good size, has proven he's quick (which was the knock on him) and he knows how to put it through the big sticks. I think if we end up getting Jack Martin and Jed Anderson i'd want the other play to have a bit of size or at least an inside game. For this reason Macrae, Stringer and Membrey would be right up there. I know you're not a huge fan but i'd love Wines as well

Yeah, he's a serious player. Reeks of one of those key forwards that aren't rated as a top five pick heading out of the draft and then becomes a serious footballer. I would take Membrey over Hogan any day of the week.

It's not that I dislike Wines, just that there is so much quality there that better fits our needs - if Wines was the standout best amongst those I wouldn't mind picking him, but the fact is they're pretty even and the others better suit our needs.