VFL 2012 Sandringham Zebras News & Discussion Part 1

[hayes]

I don't think we should give up on Crocker yet. I know he hasn't been great since he got here but he's only a second year player and on the weekend he had a couple of 50m+ kicks to Wilkes that he put on a dime to go with some other pinpoint passes and that sort of kicking ability is rare. If we can develop him to start finding the ball more he could be a real weapon, I think worst case we should rookie him.

Shenton I don't think is worth persisting with. He plays the same spot as guys like Siposs, Markworth and Dunell who would all be in front of him.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I don't think we should give up on Crocker yet. I know he hasn't been great since he got here but he's only a second year player and on the weekend he had a couple of 50m+ kicks to Wilkes that he put on a dime to go with some other pinpoint passes and that sort of kicking ability is rare. If we can develop him to start finding the ball more he could be a real weapon, I think worst case we should rookie him.

Shenton I don't think is worth persisting with. He plays the same spot as guys like Siposs, Markworth and Dunell who would all be in front of him.

The main issue at end of year will be deciding which main list players have to go. I can see Winmar going to the rookie list ( unless the team has the capspace to pay him out ). Webster would be under contract , so possibility for the rookie list. Crocker as well?
Talls take a long time to develop, but generally midfielders dont. He was a good kick when he came, but if he cant develop the rest of his game I cant see it. Would need to show some serious stuff for the rest of the season IMO.

Agree regarding Shenton. They should have gotten Squizzy in as "special rookie draft advisor" in which case the advice would have been along the lines of "maybe you should get a ruckman instead of the wolfman "

 

[Squizz]

By transferring Lenny and Kosi from veterans (inside list) to veterans (outside list), we'd get two more main list spots and two less rookies.

So possibly there isn't any benefit in sending Winmar/Webster/Crocker to the rookie list (other than you get to treat 50% of a rookie's wage outside the salary cap, although they'd be on minimum wage deals and the difference between them and a rookie wouldn't be much)?

I'd still like to clarify how many rookie list spots clubs have after this year, as the rules imply we lose 2 i.e. if we have enough cap space to take two extra main list spots, possibly we only have 4 spots?

After picking Dunell (who followed Saad, Milera, Markworth and Wilkes), I'm still perplexed with the Shaggy* selection. The forward line options (including having some more mature types) had already been addressed - yet we went to the same well again and left a gaping hole that almost the whole BF Saints board (if not the wider football world) saw.


* I can't call him Wolfman, as we had one of those (who I still remember, if only for hitting the post from 2m to draw instead of beat the Swans!). I could deal with Wolfmother though.

 

[Defacto]

could we move winmar to the rookie list even though he is contracted as a senior player?

 

[Squizz]

Yes - been done before with Brad Howard, Leigh Fisher and Jarryd Allen (contracted players moved to the rookie list).

 

[stkildathunda]

I'd still like to clarify how many rookie list spots clubs have after this year, as the rules imply we lose 2 i.e. if we have enough cap space to take two extra main list spots, possibly we only have 4 spots?

When in doubt, ask people on twitter! Hopefully AFL reply with a answer, they are normally pretty good with answering quesitons!

 

[Persevering Saint]

Winners Only on SS has been suggesting that Curren is being prepared as a replacement to Jones. While I think he's jumping the gun a little by suggesting that Curren replace Jonesy NOW (I think Jones is actually doing pretty well), I thought it was interesting as an overall concept to explore.

From what I've heard about Curren for most of the season, he's been a talented inside/outside mid. I hadn't really heard of him being a tagger until last week. What's the dealio? Squizz, AT, Holden, etc, do you think that he's being groomed to become a tagger? I thought his attack and footskills were a real strength - don't we want him setting up our play, rather than stopping the play of the opposition?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

By transferring Lenny and Kosi from veterans (inside list) to veterans (outside list), we'd get two more main list spots and two less rookies.

So possibly there isn't any benefit in sending Winmar/Webster/Crocker to the rookie list (other than you get to treat 50% of a rookie's wage outside the salary cap, although they'd be on minimum wage deals and the difference between them and a rookie wouldn't be much)?

I'd still like to clarify how many rookie list spots clubs have after this year, as the rules imply we lose 2 i.e. if we have enough cap space to take two extra main list spots, possibly we only have 4 spots?

After picking Dunell (who followed Saad, Milera, Markworth and Wilkes), I'm still perplexed with the Shaggy* selection. The forward line options (including having some more mature types) had already been addressed - yet we went to the same well again and left a gaping hole that almost the whole BF Saints board (if not the wider football world) saw.


* I can't call him Wolfman, as we had one of those (who I still remember, if only for hitting the post from 2m to draw instead of beat the Swans!). I could deal with Wolfmother though.

Yeah that makes sense. I don't really like shuffling players on and off lists, and I prefer the Rookie spots for real "Rookies".
My only thoughts weith Shaggy are that they were clear that they wanted someone else to play in the forward line apart from Roo/Kosi/Milne/Shnieder. So far only Siposs and Archer had played with less than impressive results. ( Sipp was OK but based on his last years games we couldn't be sure he'd deliver what we wanted).

Smalls: Milera /Saad/ Minch(longer term )
Mediums: ( given that only Siposs had played) Markworth (for god sake eat some big macs - but he looked pretty handy last weekend) ,Dunnel and Shenton. I guess they wanted another in case Dunnel and Sip werent up to it.

I noticed they seemed to want to get a good look at Shenton during the NAB cup, but as it stands Siposs has improved a lot since last year and it will be hard for them to usurp him.
Also Stanley has been playing very well, something that couldn't have been predicted during draft week.

Maybe we should promote Dunnell, instruct all the players to kick it to him, then trade him for a 2nd round pick.... nah that would be too cold and cynical for StKilda.

 

[Squizz]

Winners Only on SS has been suggesting that Curren is being prepared as a replacement to Jones. While I think he's jumping the gun a little by suggesting that Curren replace Jonesy NOW (I think Jones is actually doing pretty well), I thought it was interesting as an overall concept to explore.

From what I've heard about Curren for most of the season, he's been a talented inside/outside mid. I hadn't really heard of him being a tagger until last week. What's the dealio? Squizz, AT, Holden, etc, do you think that he's being groomed to become a tagger? I thought his attack and footskills were a real strength - don't we want him setting up our play, rather than stopping the play of the opposition?

He's averaged 18 possessions, and has been able to find the footy. I seem to remember him playing in the backline at least once, although mainly he's been on the wing with stints in the middle. Seb Ross has been doing a few run-with roles (don't recollect Curren doing this before).

Curren's kicking can be iffy, but it's improving and he can kick both sides (and has got the trip from around 50m a number of times this season for goals). Jones has elite endurance and is very strong though (along with being quick), and Newnes was the one annointed by Watters to take over in time. Curren has shown good flexibility in different roles, but would be some way off tagging an elite midfielder in the AFL.

 

[Squizz]

Smalls: Milera/Saad/Minch
Mediums: Siposs, Markworth, Dunell and Shenton.

I don't see Shaggy (188cm) playing any taller than Milera (185cm). He seems more of a scrounger like Lynch was, save for the odd piece of sticky fingers in amongst not being sighted for 45 minutes at a time. I'll concede that the club was surprised by what Milera could do in the pre-season, but then Stanley is very mobile, Siposs was surely rated more highly, and Dunell was our first choice rookie. Just didn't see the need for another player - particularly one who was known for inconsistency and going missing during games. The other issue is that his kicking isn't what you'd expect given our focus on this area with other recruits (and with Pelchen at the helm of list management).

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I don't see Shaggy (188cm) playing any taller than Milera (185cm). He seems more of a scrounger like Lynch was, save for the odd piece of sticky fingers in amongst not being sighted for 45 minutes at a time. I'll concede that the club was surprised by what Milera could do in the pre-season, but then Stanley is very mobile, Siposs was surely rated more highly, and Dunell was our first choice rookie. Just didn't see the need for another player - particularly one who was known for inconsistency and going missing during games. The other issue is that his kicking isn't what you'd expect given our focus on this area with other recruits (and with Pelchen at the helm of list management).

He'd be good if they had a party with a Flintstone's theme though.

 

[stkildathunda]

Farren Ray 37 disposals, 3 marks, 6 tackles
Beau Wilkes 4.2, 14 disposals, 10 marks, 1 tackle
Brett Peake 21 disposals, 3 marks, 2 tackles
Tom Ledger 1 goal, 22 disposals, 5 marks
Daniel Markworth 1 goal, 13 disposals,2 marks, 2 tackles

Adam Cockie 1.2, 26 disposals, 6 marks, 11 tackles.
Marcus Marigliani 24 disposals, 5 mas, 3 tckls.
Myke Cook 25 disposals,4mks, 4tckls

 

[Defacto]

adam cockie is wasted in the vfl. should be on an afl list

 

[Persevering Saint]

adam cockie is wasted in the vfl. should be on an afl list

And hopefully next year, he will be... on ours.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

adam cockie is wasted in the vfl. should be on an afl list

He has been and had one great game, with 15 others with 11-14 disposals.
Marigliani is similar ( but less games ).

 

[Squizz]

He has been and had one great game, with 15 others with 11-14 disposals.

Although he hasn't played since 2009. Would be reasonable to say that he could be a better player at 23yo (than he was back then when injuries were said to be a problem). I don't remember him at the Eagles, but he's insane in the clinches and is a wonderful kick.

 

[hayes]

Although he hasn't played since 2009. Would be reasonable to say that he could be a better player at 23yo (than he was back then when injuries were a problem). I don't remember him at the Eagles, but he's insane in the clinches and is a wonderful kick.

Do you think he should be on our list next season or should we look at a younger player?

 

[Squizz]

He seems an OK-ish fit in terms of age (younger than Geary and Armitage). The issue for us might be that if Lenny goes on, Ledger might still not be getting games (think we lose a bit of balance/flex with Lenny, Armo, Jones and another inside mid in the same team). Would be hard to let him slip though (and not even rookie him).

 

[stkildathunda]

Do you think he should be on our list next season or should we look at a younger player?

Yes, he's still young when it comes down to it. Seems to have got his body right and is playing great footy. Is perfect replacement for Lenny imo. Sometimes its better to go the mature player you've been able to look at closely over last 2 years then the untried 18 year old who could take 4-5 years to mature.

 

[hayes]

Completely agree, the only reason why I mention age is because unless he's the Lenny replacement he might have to wait until some of our older midfielders retire which may be 3-4 years away. I'd imagine there'd be other clubs looking at him as well which might offer him more of an opportunity.

 

[Defacto]

He has been and had one great game, with 15 others with 11-14 disposals.
Marigliani is similar ( but less games ).

i know he has been but that was a while ago and he developed alot further as a player during his time at subi. just because a player doesnt make it at one club doesnt mean he cant make it at another club

 

[Defacto]

Do you think he should be on our list next season or should we look at a younger player?

i reckon we delist polo and give cockie his spot, if he is available as a late pick in the draft.

i wouldnt waste time with giving him a rookie spot.

 

[stkildathunda]

Here is link to Sandringham Mid Season Review if anyone is interested - http://tsjournal.net/2012/06/27/sandringham-mid-year-review/

 

[hayes]

I think a lot will depend on how we finish the year. If we don't make the finals and it looks like we're on the slide maybe some guys like Montagna, Gram, etc we'll look to trade and obviously Lenny will retire which will open up a few spots and we head in the rebuilding direction. Either way it's going to be a big offseason with some massive decisions to be made.

 

[Plugger35]

I was quite impressed with what I saw of Cockie at Subiaco and West Coast and thought he had the makings of a decent AFL player so would be happy to see us give him an opportunity on our list.

Without us having access to many top draft picks we need to look at exploring other options like mature age picks and at 23 years of age Cockie definitely isn't too old. I'd rather someone with potential like him takes a spot on our list then someone like Polo who will never be anything more than just an average plodder.