List Mgmt. 2014 list discussion - drafts, free agents, trades, retirees, delistings and more

[CatTricks]

I have a feeling Kersten will be gone.

I said the same thing in another thread. Would be a big loss, and you would think one of the WA clubs would be his preference, not sure what we would get for him if it eventuates.

As much as I would hate to lose him, it does help out situation with rookie list elevations if the club want to elevate Blicavs, Walker and/or Burbury and our man, Eardley.

 

[Partridge]

On the retirements, Chapman, Corey and Enright will retire when they want to. They are all apart of our best 22, don't kid yourself and get caught up in some of these youngsters showing "a bit". These are hardened AFL premiership footballers. Lets hang onto them as long as they are still playing good football. The kids will get a run when they are good enough (Motlop/Duncan/Christiansen) so dont be quick to throw the veterans away.

Someone like Josh Hunt has struggled to keep his spot for 10 years so maybe age will catch him but atm he is playing well and unless we are absolutly sure that a player is ready to take his spot we should tred lightly

Chapman hasn't played since Round 4. A "minor" hamstring injury has seen him miss 8 games and there's no sign of a return. He's a long way from showing a bit right now. If your body can't get you on the field you've got no right to dictate when you retire. You shouldn't anyway.

If you don't tap older guys on the shoulder, you won't get enough experience into the next generation. They'll all crash at once, then you've got an entire team made up of guys with 19 games' experience. Look at Melbourne to see how well that works. Or a better example - Brisbane in 2005. Went from playing in a Grand Final in 2004 to getting slaughtered by St.Kilda in Round 22 the following year. Because they wouldn't make hard decisions and get rid of guys who were past it.

 

[Cattery]

Chapman hasn't played since Round 4. A "minor" hamstring injury has seen him miss 8 games and there's no sign of a return. He's a long way from showing a bit right now. If your body can't get you on the field you've got no right to dictate when you retire. You shouldn't anyway.

Yep, and a bloke named Ottens missed almost the entire season in 2009, played a huge part in winning us the flag that year, then went on for another two seasons and another flag to boot.

Averaged twenty two games a year over the last four Chapman, so it's not like he's breaking down on a regular basis, and I for one wouldn't be stamping his papers just yet based on one injury; still believe he'll play a big part come September (and beyond)

If you don't tap older guys on the shoulder, you won't get enough experience into the next generation. They'll all crash at once, then you've got an entire team made up of guys with 19 games' experience. Look at Melbourne to see how well that works. Or a better example - Brisbane in 2005. Went from playing in a Grand Final in 2004 to getting slaughtered by St.Kilda in Round 22 the following year. Because they wouldn't make hard decisions and get rid of guys who were past it.

It's a balancing act, and one which I think the MC are handling exceptionally well when it comes to getting game time into the next generation, at the same time I don't see the need to force the veterans out unless their form dictates, or there's a replacement of better quality, and at present, with the possibly exception of GHS I don't see any of the kids being a better option.

Agree 100% with Dinga_19, hang onto the veterans as long as they're deserving of the place in the team, and let the kids earm their spot.

 

[Partridge]

Yep, and a bloke named Ottens missed almost the entire season in 2009, played a huge part in winning us the flag that year, then went on for another two seasons and another flag to boot.

Averaged twenty two games a year over the last four Chapman, so it's not like he's breaking down on a regular basis, and I for one wouldn't be stamping his papers just yet based on one injury; still believe he'll play a big part come September (and beyond)

That's all true. Except that Ottens was 29 in that season. Chapman is two years older already. Do you honestly think Chapman has two more seasons in him after this one?

 

[Partridge]

I said the same thing in another thread. Would be a big loss, and you would think one of the WA clubs would be his preference, not sure what we would get for him if it eventuates.

As much as I would hate to lose him, it does help out situation with rookie list elevations if the club want to elevate Blicavs, Walker and/or Burbury and our man, Eardley.

But is there really any reason why they'd want to shift Kersten? Scott has mentioned him a few times and said openly he'll debut at some point this year. He's barely 20 years old. Why would they be in a hurry with him? Doesn't make sense.

He's also a young key forward. We don't have that many of them.

 

[bulletproof]

Chapman is a tricky one, I think he is more Buddha Hocking than Cameron Ling. That sort of self belief and determination may see him get back but it may also mean he never thinks he is done even if his body has given up.

Chapman is the player I worry most about the end getting a little bit ugly.

 

[CatTricks]

But is there really any reason why they'd want to shift Kersten? Scott has mentioned him a few times and said openly he'll debut at some point this year. He's barely 20 years old. Why would they be in a hurry with him? Doesn't make sense.

He's also a young key forward. We don't have that many of them.

I think the club would love to retain him. I just think the WA clubs will come knocking and they will probably appeal to him. If you follow him on instagram and twitter you get the impression he is very homesick.

 

[Cattery]

That's all true. Except that Ottens was 29 in that season. Chapman is two years older already. Do you honestly think Chapman has two more seasons in him after this one?

Nope, wasn't suggesting that, just saying this current injury doesn't spell the end for him.
Form was excellent before that, and I see no reason why he can't reproduce that come the business end of the season, plus on form I don't think another season is beyond him either "if" his body holds up.

 

[dazbroncos]

Chapman is a tricky one, I think he is more Buddha Hocking than Cameron Ling. That sort of self belief and determination may see him get back but it may also mean he never thinks he is done even if his body has given up.

Chapman is the player I worry most about the end getting a little bit ugly.

Everytime I see Budda near the game.. hell any game... I just can't stop thinking that in his head, as unreal as it is, he just wants to get out there head over it and have a full on crack....

Great point and I think Chappy is a bit the same way...

FWIW, I think he will totally try a pull an 09 Otto this year..... and a fit and ready Chappy does not make our 22 worse...

GO Catters

 

[Old_Man_James]

The only thing I fear is losing a lot of the older players at the one time.

Looking at our list on footywire ranked by age. There is a 1 year 7 month age gap between Stokes and Harry Taylor.

You would have to think that the following players will have of finished up after a maximum of 4 more seasons. (discounting super longevity, which is possible but rare). Pods, Enright, Chapman, Corey, Hunt, Johnson, Bartel, Kelly, Lonergan, Mackie, McIntosh, Rivers, Stokes.

Having a hypothetical play around with possible retirement years, and it is difficult to not create a logjam of 5-6 players retiring at the one time. And even this is assuming some players make it to the 32-33 year age mark, which is definitely no easy feat.

Year and Age during last season.

2013: Chapman (31), Hunt/Corey (31)

2014: Podsiadly (32), Corey/Hunt (32)

2015: Enright*(∞), Mcintosh (30), Lonergan (31)

2016: Kelly (32), Rivers#(31) , Johnson(33), Stokes (31)

2017: Mackie(33), Bartel (33)

#form dependent- yet to be proven.
* Seems like its motivation, not form or fitness troubles that could see Enright retire at any point he chooses. (The one player I would love to see do a Fletcher!)

Obviously anything could happen between now and then, but as a thought exercise, I think it highlights that if we don't make the hard calls on some of our champions in Chapman and Corey etc. we could be in for a hell of a exodus in one of the following years. When it looks like a player is succumbing to natural attrition, sadly, I think that will be many of the above players last year. We all love Chappy, but the reality is that he will have missed most of the 2013 season.

Worst case scenario would be not making the hard calls and having a combination of players that have played on too long and players retiring a year or two earlier than they may otherwise have. End of 2015 season could be a disaster in such a scenario.

 

[Turbocat]

I have a feeling Kersten will be gone.

Kersten and Eardley as a package to Freo/WC? Perhaps but any bottomish club could do a lot worse that look at these guys. GC and GWS probably have too many kids as it is.
We would struggle to get anything close to tempting for them. Bulldogs R2 perhaps.

 

[CatTricks]

Eardley stays for mine.

 

[Vdubs]

I think the club would love to retain him. I just think the WA clubs will come knocking and they will probably appeal to him. If you follow him on instagram and twitter you get the impression he is very homesick.

No thanks, BF is about enough of this stuff for me

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

But is there really any reason why they'd want to shift Kersten? Scott has mentioned him a few times and said openly he'll debut at some point this year. He's barely 20 years old. Why would they be in a hurry with him? Doesn't make sense.

He's also a young key forward. We don't have that many of them.

Someone correct me on this if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Kersten still has WA plates on his car. Also until recently his twitter location was something like "WA footballer currently living in Victoria" which to me doesn't bode well for him staying.

 

[Turbocat]

Someone correct me on this if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Kersten still has WA plates on his car. Also until recently his twitter location was something like "WA footballer currently living in Victoria" which to me doesn't bode well for him staying.

If true we probably haven't seen the best of him and if go back to wa we will be luck to get a R2 from Freo say P35 , about what we used 2 years ago. Geelong are far more level headed than I , Im not sure what id do in that sort of trade situation. Im sure he be picked earlier than 35 if he was just in the draft.
To be honest , I'm not even 100% sure we would use a pick at 35. It depends on other trades and retirements.


Id be tempted to see if we could trade for a player of similar value more to our needs

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Well depends on retires at end of year. But right now we need.

A KPD, Ruck and another gun mid. (not in any order) First 2 can be stop gaps if Rivers and Simpson/Hmac stay on the park. If not, then need something better.

Whether we get that from our kids coming on our we trade/draft, I feel that these 3 are the major problems going forward.

If a few of the oldies retire, then will have to revisit at the end of year.

 

[cynical]

Kersten is interesting we don't really need him and he is a little bit on the small side for a KPF and not fit enough to play 3rd tall.

He is a good ready made KPF and would certainly improve a club like the Bulldogs, Freo , Collingwood etc

Personally i'd want pick 20-30 for him or an upgraded pick say our second rounder for a high second rounder/late first round pick.

Also happy to trade out Stringer or Schroder. Cowan and Brown are more talented players and with Lonners hitting the wall Brown would get a lot more games next year.

 

[Cat Addict]

Well depends on retires at end of year. But right now we need.

A KPD, Ruck and another gun mid. (not in any order) First 2 can be stop gaps if Rivers and Simpson/Hmac stay on the park. If not, then need something better.

Whether we get that from our kids coming on our we trade/draft, I feel that these 3 are the major problems going forward.

If a few of the oldies retire, then will have to revisit at the end of year.

Could a Freo trade for Alex Silvagni or Geelong boy Jayden Pitt for Kersten be a win/win. Doesn't help with list spots but would help with our defensive stocks. I think we are pretty right for rucks right now, appart from injuries.

 

[CatTricks]

Could a Freo trade for Alex Silvagni or Geelong boy Jayden Pitt for Kersten be a win/win. Doesn't help with list spots but would help with our defensive stocks. I think we are pretty right for rucks right now, appart from injuries.

I was all for getting Silvagni last year, but I wouldn;t bother now.

Jayden Pitt may never play again due to a heart condition

 

[Cat Addict]

I was all for getting Silvagni last year, but I wouldn;t bother now.

Jayden Pitt may never play again due to a heart condition

Hmm just catching up on the lastest on Jayden...
http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/news/2013-04-10/jayden-pitt-update

Its a shame, I remeber watching him run around for St Albans as a 16 year old, looked good back then...

 

[Turbocat]

Could a Freo trade for Alex Silvagni or Geelong boy Jayden Pitt for Kersten be a win/win. Doesn't help with list spots but would help with our defensive stocks. I think we are pretty right for rucks right now, appart from injuries.

I think the closest like for like , need for need would be Kersten for Tanner Smith P36 2012. Yes one year younger but 196cm from Ballarat Rebels would be a better fit in our VFL side than a forward.
Dont want Kersten gone but if he does goes Id try redress our list issues. Kersten represent future needs and I'd say we should be looking at his replacement that way. Silvagni wouldn't get a game with us.

Of course there may be a chance of a multi club deal which would mean who knows who we would take.

 

[cynical]

Silvangi is undersized and too old for our needs

If Tanner Smith is any good freo wouldn't trade him because they need to replace McPharlin

Better off trading for draft picks and letting Wells find another Harry Taylor or Egan.

 

[footscore]

Kersten is interesting we don't really need him and he is a little bit on the small side for a KPF and not fit enough to play 3rd tall.

He is a good ready made KPF and would certainly improve a club like the Bulldogs, Freo , Collingwood etc

have you seen him play?

The guy is a seriously talented footballer who was carrying a little extra baby fat when we drafted him. He's spent the last 2 years working on his endurance and has toned up to the point of being ready for senior footy.
He's currently injured but make no mistake, Kersten is going to be an absolute gun, whether he gets a chance this season or next...only a matter of time but to say we don't need him with Johnson, Chapman, Podsiadly nearing retirement and Menzel an uncertainty, is wrong.

 

[Turbocat]

have you seen him play?

The guy is a seriously talented footballer who was carrying a little extra baby fat when we drafted him. He's spent the last 2 years working on his endurance and has toned up to the point of being ready for senior footy.
He's currently injured but make no mistake, Kersten is going to be an absolute gun, whether he gets a chance this season or next...only a matter of time but to say we don't need him with Johnson, Chapman, Podsiadly nearing retirement and Menzel an uncertainty, is wrong.

Footscore , perhaps he sees him only as that KPF option. Most us that have seen him would like to see him be trailed on ball, in the backline... somewhere anywhere that would get him the side. Once in the side ( a bit like Simpson) id say he would be hard to remove. As I have said , this is not a trade id instigate.. but read some of those previous posts, add that we do have a lot of options in the role he plays atm but not so many elsewhere ...if forced to trade i would try to max our position

 

[Turbocat]

Silvangi is undersized and too old for our needs

If Tanner Smith is any good freo wouldn't trade him because they need to replace McPharlin

Better off trading for draft picks and letting Wells find another Harry Taylor or Egan.

Thats not correct. Just because a player is good , it doesn't mean a club wont trade.
I take your point on Wells. If he thought he could get the ideal replacement fine. We are just speculating.
But Im not wrapped in the idea of trading Kersten for a late pick, which we may not even use.

We may have 2 picks or 3 picks. Right now thats about 20,40,60. If we only are going to use 2 and we get 35 odd for Kersten , its almost worth zip. We have 40 of our own to use.