2014 Trade/FA Discussions

[Hollow Knight]

And the suggestion of Leuey and pick 4 for Beams!!! I have a bridge I would like to sell you.

On paper with emotion and the (currently unknown) intentions of Leuenberger removed from the equation, I really don't think it a significantly unbalanced trade.

 

[Davemonkey]

I think that's probably fair, but when it comes to trading a big name player like Beams after a disappointing year I'd say that Eddie Maguire would have substantial input, whether direct or implicit. The football department may not be formally required to run trade plans past him, but I bet he might have a view on their prospects of continued employment if the club traded Beams against his wishes.

Along those lines, I wonder if this saga could create internal tensions at Collingwood. Assuming Beams does actually want out, you could imagine a scenario where the football department liked a trade solution that he didn't.

I think the Beams situation would be specific to one of the two Queensland based clubs with a strong lean towards us based purely on the family and friends angle and lifestyle changes from being an AFL player in QLD as opposed to Melbourne. The only club that might gazump us is GC and if Dayne is interested in moving he won't go to another Melbourne or interstate club, but there are so many ifs in this conversation still. If it happens I expect it late in the trade period.

On an aside we are back to a one week trade period after last week's tortuous fortnight. Is that correct?

 

[chopperduck]

A brief interjection- what about West?

People forget just how well he was going as our sole ruck before he got injured. IMHO, he was performing at a very high level of output. I though he was regularly among our best.

Coaches agree with you. He was in the top 10 for the B&F count while he played. That is pretty impressive. West is a guy that can take a contested mark up forward, but he is also a #1 quality ruckman.

 

[Full Wingspan]

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on Sam Reid to the Lions. What would we need to give up? What is his contract status, where has he been playing (if at all) primarily for the Swans and can he be a 50-60 goal a year forward we need? How has he handled the number one defender?

 

[winged1]

On paper with emotion and the (currently unknown) intentions of Leuenberger removed from the equation, I really don't think it a significantly unbalanced trade.

Before his injury this year Leuey was talked about as AA contender and pick 4, where you are going to get one of McCartin, Petracca, Brayshaw, Wright? I like Beams but he isnt worth that.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Before his injury this year Leuey was talked about as AA contender and pick 4, where you are going to get one of McCartin, Petracca, Brayshaw, Wright? I like Beams but he isnt worth that.

None of that is particurlarly swaying for me to be honest.

Sure Leuey was talked about as a potential AA but he didn't get there, and yeah that was "before injury", but he got injured again.

McCartin, Petracca, Brayshaw and Wright are just prospects. Not one of them is proven at AFL level yet.

 

[Harris Specter]

Honestly, I'd be very disappointed in the club if we trade out any of our youngsters or senior players who have not signaled an intention to leave or pursue better opportunities elsewhere for Ryder, Beams. Leuenberger was the first player to re-sign with the club when there were question marks and rumours over his future, hope we do the same and stand by him.

Some of the trade talk on the Essendon and Collingwood boards are hilarous though. Pick 4 + Redden for Ryder etc; Pick 4 + Zorko + Second Rounder for Beams, ah gotta love funny season.

 

[Kevvo]

Before his injury this year Leuey was talked about as AA contender and pick 4, where you are going to get one of McCartin, Petracca, Brayshaw, Wright? I like Beams but he isnt worth that.

To be fair, Beams actually made the All Australian side in 2012, and won the Collingwood B&F in a team with Swan and Pendlebury. Also, those kids look good to me, but top 4 picks can turn out to be Jack Wattses or Richard Tamblings too.

 

[chopperduck]

I love Bergs, I really do. But as much as I rate him, he is only as good as he is out on the field. He could be the best player in the AFL, it means nothing if he barely plays. I do think he has had a bit of an unlucky run in his career which hasn't helped him, and he can string full seasons together. His best footy is ahead of him as well. BUT, maybe for his own career, he might have better lucky playing on a field that doesn't need to be watered before every game.

I'm not keen to see the back of him, but if we do land Ryder, than you would expect a few teams to be sniffing around.

 

[chopperduck]

I'll take a player at the age of 24 who is probably top 5 odds for the Brownlow each year any day of the week over pick 1, nevermind pick 4.

 

[Fatcat08]

Before his injury this year Leuey was talked about as AA contender and pick 4, where you are going to get one of McCartin, Petracca, Brayshaw, Wright? I like Beams but he isnt worth that.

I tend to disagree when you look at it in context of what it means for us next season. Lets put any other trades to the side in this example and use what we have.

No trade: Leuey and Martin sharing ruck and a starting midfield of Rockliff, Redden, Rich, Hanley, Zorko, Aish with backup in Lester/Mayes/Taylor

Trade: Martin and West sharing ruck and the starting midfield then lines up with Rockliff, Redden, Hanley, Rich, Beams, Zorko and backup in Aish/Mayes/Lester/Taylor

Personally I would lean toward the second option myself but I do prefer known quantities. That and the fact that who the heck to I try to shut down as an opposition coach? Who's the biggest threat, Hanley, Rich, Beams? Thats a decent goal kicking midfield there as well. Sometimes you tend to need to look outside the trade itself and actually look at what it means for your team. Not saying the second is hands down the best but it certainly would make you think of another angle.

 

[Tassie4ever]

Coaches agree with you. He was in the top 10 for the B&F count while he played. That is pretty impressive. West is a guy that can take a contested mark up forward, but he is also a #1 quality ruckman.

Not only was he going well, but, right up until the point he did his ACL, I was commenting on how durable he was, unlike others in the ruck ranks,

But don't blame me.

Speculation I know, but how might Martin have gone if West had gone uninjured?

 

[Mavlions1961]

Not only was he going well, but, right up until the point he did his ACL, I was commenting on how, unlike others in the ruck ranks, how durable he was.

But don't blame me.

Speculation I know, but how might Martin have gone if West had gone uninjured?

A very good point Tassie, he could well be on the Trade table now.

 

[Kevvo]

A very good point Tassie, he could well be on the Trade table now.

And we'd be talking about how Leuey and Westy would go next year.

 

[whatboutbob]

A very good point Tassie, he could well be on the Trade table now.

More likely delisted.

 

[chopperduck]

Speculation I know, but how might Martin have gone if West had gone uninjured?

That is the great unknown. West plays a full season, Martin probably plays forward at best rotating into the ruck. I think he would have still had an impact, but not to the point he did. Martin finished 11th overall, which was great for half a season. i think if Rocky played 22 games he still would have won, but i think Martin would have been top 3.

How well can he play with another ruck is the question. Leppa clearly wants 2 ruck options.

 

[jackess]

I thought West was average at best as a ruckman. The fact he was top 10 in our B&F is no big deal given how pathetic we were until he got injured. Not saying the two are related. I have no issues with him not getting games.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I'm going to start keeping a log of your Merrett vs non-Merrett posts. I'm a bit worried about your obsession.

Thanks. I love statistics.

 

[ZoBlitz]

Thanks. I love statistics.

Well, finding statistics to support your opinions in any case.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Well, finding statistics to support your opinions in any case.

It's called evidence.

 

[jackess]

Here's a stat.

Our winning percentage this year;
When Merrett didn't play: 0%
When Merrett did play: 37%

=> We are 37% more likely to win with Merrett in the team.

 

[winged1]

I love Bergs, I really do. But as much as I rate him, he is only as good as he is out on the field. He could be the best player in the AFL, it means nothing if he barely plays. I do think he has had a bit of an unlucky run in his career which hasn't helped him, and he can string full seasons together. His best footy is ahead of him as well. BUT, maybe for his own career, he might have better lucky playing on a field that doesn't need to be watered before every game.

Beams missed games with a knee injury this year (on top of his brothers two ACL's, can anybody say Menzel), did his quad and had a back complain last year and missed most of the year. So I dont know about the argument of durability. Also rucks get injured, just the way it is.

Again not knocking Beams he is a good player, but I think the trades being talked about arent feasible. Also remember how we were treated last year, not necessarily by Collingwood who I thought were fair, but in general. I just dont agree with throwing the kitchen sink at Ryder or Beams. I get flashbacks of Fev and the way there was no tempering of enthusiasm. Not that I am comparing Fev to Beams, just the situation.

keep in mind even with both of them we are not a finals team, 2016 yes probably, but next year will still be a learning year.

 

[James North]

It's called evidence.

Incredibly that same body of evidence gives Jordan Lisle better stats than Merrett in almost all of those areas.

Now that he's delisted, can we discount every argument you present with statistics?

 

[bato]

 

[acuguy]

Luey cannot be on the trade table. Luey and Martin is our answer to Cox and Nic Nat- with the 2 of them roaming the flanks on kick outs surely exiting the Lions forward half will be nigh on impossible!