2015/16 Pre-Season Thread

[1970crow]

Bolded bit is complete and utter rubbish. VB wasn't playing as an inside midfielder, but a lot of his possessions were contested.

For the record, here are the stats..
Matt Crouch
Avg Disposals per game: 21.0
Avg Contested per game: 8.5 (40.5% of disposals)
Kick/Handball ratio: 40%
DE: 71%

VB
Avg Disposals per game: 15.3
Avg Contested per game: 5.4 (35.3% of disposals)
Kick/Handball ratio: 61%
DE: 68%

Interesting stats...

• Crouch had more contested possessions, and a higher percentage of contested possessions, which is not unexpected given the role he plays. Even so, more than 1 in 3 of VB's possessions was contested. So much for the idiotic statement quoted above.
  
• Despite kicking it more, VB's DE was only marginally worse than Crouch's. What that translates to... despite being much maligned for his kicking, his kicking record is better than Crouch's.

Honestly, that is embarrassing. Matt Crouch is 20 games in and VB is a 200 gamer. Do you think that 20 gamers don't improve. When you look at young Crouch's stats, do you get excited thinking about what he may become. Or do you try and work out why we'd be better off playing an experienced plodder ahead of him.

 

[Squiba]

... Do you think that 20 gamers don't improve. When you look at young Crouch's stats, do you get excited thinking about what he may become. Or do you try and work out why we'd be better off playing an experienced plodder ahead of him.

Are you seriously asking that?

 

[baldandbroke]

Why though? Earlier you even said that handballing is what Crouch is better at, so why is it mainly a positive for Priddis and not for Crouch?

Because it doesn't suit his argument?

 

[lunacy]

You are massively under-rating Otten and Henderson there. When has Shaw done anything defensively that puts him close to those two?

I'm with WW. I think Otten is cooked and weak defensively and Hendo should just never play in defense full stop.

 

[lunacy]

I liked your side-by-side so much, i added them together:

View attachment 212639

Gee, i like that big clump of ours right down the bottom. Says it all really.

IMO Hawks have the best set up/structures in afl which allow them to get free in time and space which also contributes to their elite efficiency. Having said that they're even good under pressure.

 

[lunacy]

They haven't made internal trials an open session for yonks, good for us fans!

Well he didn't really know for sure.

 

[lunacy]

People seem to forget just how good of a year Shaw had in 2012.

Yes its been an outlier so far, but its also pretty much the only year where his body hasn't failed him right up until the end. Im not saying he should be selected or that he's going to turn it on this year, but I think the bloke is, or maybe now was, nailing down a role at AFL level.

As to why he is still on our list these days, it would be as depth mainly. You cannot just delist every player that isn't in your best 22-25 and be done with it. The club most likely had a 3rd tall role earmarked for him like what we saw in 2012, but ever since then he's really struggled with injury. During that time we've added Lever, Kelly, Cheney and you could probably even include Mcgovern here, who would play similar roles. Unfortunately, that probably removes any chance Shaw had of making it into our 22, again unless injury strikes one of those guys down.

If he manages to stay fit this year, I could see the club maybe giving him another year or two, agai as a depth. If he does well then he's a chance to crack back into the side you'd think. Would also give us a bit more flexibility at the trade and drafting table in terms of player types we are looking to add to our list.

i think Shaw has the greatest capacity of all our depth 3rd talls to play as a KPD if required. That group being Shaw, Otten, Cheney, Kelly (the latter I see as more of a medium sized defender).

 

[Jimmystephenson]

i think Shaw has the greatest capacity of all our depth 3rd talls to play as a KPD if required. That group being Shaw, Otten, Cheney, Kelly (the latter I see as more of a medium sized defender).

Where do you see Lever playing then? Considering he's infinitely more talented than any of the players you mentioned

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

I'm with WW. I think Otten is cooked and weak defensively and Hendo should just never play in defense full stop.

I just can't comprehend the decision to give Otten a two year contract extension

 

[Elite Crow]

I just can't comprehend the decision to give Otten a two year contract extension

It's almost as if we felt we owed him due to his injuries and only giving him 1 year would be mean. I just can't see how he fits in a team that wants to be full of run.

 

[baldandbroke]

I'm with WW. I think Otten is cooked and weak defensively and Hendo should just never play in defense full stop.

I think Otten could be cooked too, and agree Henderson is played out of position a lot ... but Shaw needs to at least show some of that much hyped potential is being realised before we put him into the 22. Hopefully we see it shine in the NAB this year.

Where does he fit in the back 6? Something like:

Laird - Talia - Brown
Hampton - Lever - Shaw

That is a fairly impressive backline, very attacking ... especially when Smithers rolls back at the 7th defender.

So Hartigan becomes back-up with Cheney in the SANFL?

 

[GROTTO]

I just can't comprehend the decision to give Otten a two year contract extension

Another example of poor salary cap management that might bite us in the arse again as well as player list management.

 

[GROTTO]

It's almost as if we felt we owed him due to his injuries and only giving him 1 year would be mean. I just can't see how he fits in a team that wants to be full of run.

I think once we see Pyke's gameplan in full operation will we know whether a player like Otten can find a place in the team. But I do agree the signs are not great.

 

[skoobydoo]

I hope to see fewer blind kicks out of a stoppage in 2016 and more 2 metre handballs to Brodie, Curtly and Paul streaming forward in full stride.

This. Historically big AFC problem, where we 'win' the stoppage but just give it over due to no real outside game. Slick <5m handpass to a runner with vision is still good football.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I just can't comprehend the decision to give Otten a two year contract extension

The only thing I can think of is key forward cover ( mainly because we are susceptible if tex or jenkins get injured )

 

[FR0GGY]

Honestly, that is embarrassing. Matt Crouch is 20 games in and VB is a 200 gamer. Do you think that 20 gamers don't improve. When you look at young Crouch's stats, do you get excited thinking about what he may become. Or do you try and work out why we'd be better off playing an experienced plodder ahead of him.

Dmack? I don't think they do

 

[Cap]

Another example of poor salary cap management that might bite us in the arse again as well as player list management.

You have no idea what he is being paid.

Can you expand on your comments about poor list management to back up your claim?

 

[Jimmystephenson]

The only thing I can think of is key forward cover ( mainly because we are susceptible if tex or jenkins get injured )

He's proven before to be a fairly effective swingman to plug holes down back or up forward, obviously pre-3rd serious knee injury.

If Otten's on a cap friendly deal, is competitive at training, makes others around him work hard, and can plug holes at AFL level if required, I don't see too much wrong with signing him for 2 years. You still need guys like that around the club.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Another example of poor salary cap management that might bite us in the arse again as well as player list management.

I could swallow a 2 year term if he is on a low contract base rate, however this is the Unknown

 

[Mattrox]

I just can't comprehend the decision to give Otten a two year contract extension

The only reason for 2 over one is he's a known quantity, he's AFL standard. We have hopes for draftees but there is development time. Some of the draftees and recruits will fall by the wayside, either for ability reasons or injury reasons. A pure contingency.

I do agree that if all of our younger guys progress as we hope, Otten will not play very much footy at all.

We also don't know what money he is on, it may not impact cap space much (or it may) which makes it hard to know how cranky to get. So I'm a bit "meh" about it now.

 

[Elite Crow]

The only reason for 2 over one is he's a known quantity, he's AFL standard. We have hopes for draftees but there is development time. Some of the draftees and recruits will fall by the wayside, either for ability reasons or injury reasons. A pure contingency.

I do agree that if all of our younger guys progress as we hope, Otten will not play very much footy at all.

We also don't know what money he is on, it may not impact cap space much (or it may) which makes it hard to know how cranky to get. So I'm a bit "meh" about it now.

We couldn't have done all that with a one year contract? Where do you think Otten was going to go?

 

[Mattrox]

We couldn't have done all that with a one year contract? Where do you think Otten was going to go?

I'm not against the club showing some good faith to a player. It's not like it will hamstring our premiership chances.


I see the MacKay situation a bit differently. It smells of Trigg. Club admin copping a shit storm of criticism. Lock away the "rank and file" fan favourite poster boy for a long time to show we can keep players. Should have always been two +1 based on performance.

 

[Mego Red]

He also described CEY's kicking as beyond awful (or something like that) pre 2015. Like me, he'd probably only ever seen a couple of NAB games and a quarter as sub.

CEY was so terrible in the 2015 preseason, he would have gone close to being the worse looking and unlikely player in the AFL.

Turned it around in season proper.

 

[RePete]

If Otten had not done his knee's he would be one of our top-10 players. Immensely talented.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

If Otten had not done his knee's he would be one of our top-10 players. Immensely talented.

The talent hasn't disappeared?