2015/16 Pre-Season Thread

[WaynesWorld19]

So by your definition, Shane Woewodin and Matt Priddis are elite. If those two are, surely Sloane is too?

Think i answered that particular point earlier in this discussion

 

[Danger in Texas]

Think i answered that particular point earlier in this discussion

Yeah noticed that, hence my post after the one you quoted

 

[6BTS]

Douglas said for the player's Kris Kringle someone got Jarryd Lyons a Sub vest.

 

[Mego Red]

That's foolish to use stats as an indicator of a players Eliteness ......that makes Ryan Crowley an elite player as a tagger

To me, and this just my opinion ...Elite = Champion of the sport

AFL uses its champion players to be ambassadors for the sport, it's public face, and pays a marketing fee accordingly

Is Sloane the public face of the AFL ? .....or Crowley?

Tagger is not a position. Midfielder is, and Crowley was never in the top ten percent.

Sloane is one of the champion players being featured by Fox Footy currently and has often been featured by our club and the AFL.

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...ed-elite-by-champion-data-20140109-30kgf.html defines the Elite ranking in AFL.

 

[Golumless]

I think he pushed 30odd this past season. The emphasis was on the damaging part. I don't rate his disposals as damaging as others and I'd much prefer Sam Mitchell/Pendles damaging to Dane Swans piggyness regardless of the stat count.
I honestly believe he can do both.Rack up more possession and use it in a more damaging way. I would say that both of your examples used the ball in a more damaging way than present day Rory.

There were 3 games where he was 29 disposals and above, which considering that this season had an element of stop start for Rory, that's not too bad. That said, if there is a year that those numbers should skyrocket, it's this year seeing he'll be the main man of our midfield. Providing he actually gets a full season in, instead of most with injuries in between.

To a degree, however, it's something i'm hoping Pyke (and Walsh) being hell bent on improving our skills will improve slightly for Rory. That said though, he plays within his limits most of the time, so it may not improve by a lot.


Overall though all 3 players are quite similar with style with that they willed themselves on the game with workrate, were defensively proficient and elite overhead.

 

[Vader]

I understand it can happen and most often does. I'm aware that players who are elevated in-season from the rookie list can return. But to get a contracted senior list player there I'd guess requires delisting and the rookieing as 2 seperate events. The second event would require the player to nominate, which they might choose not to do.

I think we should ask one of our resident specialists in Vader or Bacon8 . They're normally up to speed with player rules.

The only way for a (Cat A) player to be placed on the rookie list is for them to nominate for and be drafted in the rookie draft. For a senior listed player to go on the rookie list, they would first have to be delisted. They would then have to nominate for the ND and/or PSD and not be selected by any club. Their nomination would then carry over to the RD, where they could be selected.

As far as contracts go... If they are selected by their original club, then that club has to honor the terms of any previously existing contracts. If they're selected by another club, then they get a new contract - and the original club has to make up any difference between the original and new contracts.

Cat B players have different rules, but that's not the topic of discussion here...

 

[BACCS]

Our best 10 players would get games for the Hawks, problem is most of them would be behind the Hawks best 10 players!

That's an impossible thing to compare though, because their 10 best players don't necessarily play the same positions as ours.

 

[Infra Ted]

That's foolish to use stats as an indicator of a players Eliteness ......that makes Ryan Crowley an elite player as a tagger

To me, and this just my opinion ...Elite = Champion of the sport

AFL uses its champion players to be ambassadors for the sport, it's public face, and pays a marketing fee accordingly

Is Sloane the public face of the AFL ? .....or Crowley?

Tagger is a role, not a position. Therefore your point is moot.

 

[Grenville]

FWIW I reckon this year will be the year that tells us whether Sloane is elite or not. He has played 2nd fiddle to Dangerfield for the past 4 years (3rd fiddle to him and Thommo in 2012 IMO).

From memory he's struggled in the past when tagged. He's certainly going to get a lot more attention this year. If he can continue to consistently influence games with that then he has a good claim.

 

[MRB37]

Douglas said for the player's Kris Kringle someone got Jarryd Lyons a Sub vest.

Lucky they didn't get Grigg the same gift.

 

[Messiah]

Douglas said for the player's Kris Kringle someone got Jarryd Lyons a Sub vest.

That has Tex written all over it ...

 

[Truck25]

Our best 10 players would get games for the Hawks, problem is most of them would be behind the Hawks best 10 players!

I disagree, I don't think the point of difference with the Hawks is the best 10, I think our best 10 match theirs, some better some worse but pretty close. The Difference with the hawks over the last 3-4 years and the rest of the comp is the standard of their 11-22 players. They just had 22 playing each week while the rest of the comp carry 4-5 players each week. We all know which players they are in our side.
That's why I was really happy with our off season, yes we lost one of our "elite". But we improved the quality of those competing for 11-22. We aren't talking "how can we fill this spot" we are talking "which player will beat out his competition for this spot". That is a sign of a good side.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

I disagree, I don't think the point of difference with the Hawks is the best 10, I think our best 10 match theirs, some better some worse but pretty close. The Difference with the hawks over the last 3-4 years and the rest of the comp is the standard of their 11-22 players. They just had 22 playing each week while the rest of the comp carry 4-5 players each week. We all know which players they are in our side.
That's why I was really happy with our off season, yes we lost one of our "elite". But we improved the quality of those competing for 11-22. We aren't talking "how can we fill this spot" we are talking "which player will beat out his competition for this spot". That is a sign of a good side.

An excellent post

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I disagree, I don't think the point of difference with the Hawks is the best 10, I think our best 10 match theirs, some better some worse but pretty close. The Difference with the hawks over the last 3-4 years and the rest of the comp is the standard of their 11-22 players. They just had 22 playing each week while the rest of the comp carry 4-5 players each week. We all know which players they are in our side.
That's why I was really happy with our off season, yes we lost one of our "elite". But we improved the quality of those competing for 11-22. We aren't talking "how can we fill this spot" we are talking "which player will beat out his competition for this spot". That is a sign of a good side.

Great post. They aren't saying "Aaron Keating has a premiership medal" to justify the inclusion of perennial strugglers.

 

[FR0GGY]

That has Tex written all over it ...

Or Jaensch

 

[FR0GGY]

Great post. They aren't saying "Aaron Keating has a premiership medal" to justify the inclusion of perennial strugglers.

Vader used this the other day!

 

[Elder van Berlo]

MVP debate - Iguodala.

Elite debate - the dumbest on bigfooty. Complete wank. Some players are better than others. Some players are better than a lot of others. Who you think is the best and who I think are the best will be sensitive to so many things which fall down to personal preferences (you like good kicks, I like contested marks, someone else likes hard ball winners) and also which games you watch, how much you trust your own eye vs media ejaculation. And then we all draw the line of elite at different places.

It's ****ing ridiculous.

 

[Alex99]

MVP debate - Iguodala.

Elite debate - the dumbest on bigfooty. Complete wank. Some players are better than others. Some players are better than a lot of others. Who you think is the best and who I think are the best will be sensitive to so many things which fall down to personal preferences (you like good kicks, I like contested marks, someone else likes hard ball winners) and also which games you watch, how much you trust your own eye vs media ejaculation. And then we all draw the line of elite at different places.

It's ******* ridiculous.

You do know, Andrea Iguodula is a 3 time NBA All star, all defensive first and second team, Olympic gold medalist.

He then took a 6th man role to help the team. He is still an elite NBA player.

 

[betterthanu]

Lets back in Champion Data and be done with it. At least they're attempting to quantify it and not just going on gut feel. Also they have a better idea of the positions that exist in modern day footy unlike most people who still think theres such things as the tradtional HFF and CHF etc. Players people may think are terrible half back flankers might be exceptional at a role we have little idea of.

YOUR CLUB’S ELITE PLAYERS IN 2015

Adelaide Eddie Betts, Patrick Dangerfield, Sam Jacobs, Rory Sloane, Brodie Smith, Daniel Talia

Brisbane Lions Dayne Beams, Tom Rockliff, Dayne Zorko

Carlton Kade Simpson, Chris Yarran

Collingwood Scott Pendlebury

Essendon Michael Hibberd, Cale Hooker, Jobe Watson

Fremantle Nat Fyfe, Michael Johnson, Aaron Sandilands, Michael Walters

Geelong Jimmy Bartel, Corey Enright, Joel Selwood, Harry Taylor

Gold Coast Gary Ablett, Harley Bennell, Nick Malceski

Greater Western Sydney Ryan Griffen

Hawthorn Grant Birchall, Luke Breust, Shaun Burgoyne, Josh Gibson, Jack Gunston, Cyril Rioli, Jarryd Roughead, Matt Suckling

Melbourne Nil

North Melbourne Nick Dal Santo, Todd Goldstein, Brent Harvey

Port Adelaide Travis Boak, Robbie Gray, Justin Westhoff, Chad Wingard

Richmond Brett Deledio, Shane Edwards, Alex Rance, Jack Riewoldt

St Kilda
Nil

Sydney Swans Lance Franklin, Kieren Jack, Josh Kennedy

West Coast Shannon Hurn, Josh Kennedy, Mark LeCras, Eric Mackenzie, Nic Naitanui

Western Bulldogs Robert Murphy

 

[Pugsley]

You do know, Andrea Iguodula is a 3 time NBA All star, all defensive first and second team, Olympic gold medalist.

He then took a 6th man role to help the team. He is still an elite NBA player.

Bang. Game over. There is no other argument & I'm not a Warriors fan.

 

[Elite Crow]

Or Jaensch

or B Crouch

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

I disagree, I don't think the point of difference with the Hawks is the best 10, I think our best 10 match theirs, some better some worse but pretty close. The Difference with the hawks over the last 3-4 years and the rest of the comp is the standard of their 11-22 players. They just had 22 playing each week while the rest of the comp carry 4-5 players each week. We all know which players they are in our side.
That's why I was really happy with our off season, yes we lost one of our "elite". But we improved the quality of those competing for 11-22. We aren't talking "how can we fill this spot" we are talking "which player will beat out his competition for this spot". That is a sign of a good side.

Agree with the fact that our depth is significantly better now now. Hopefully we never see the likes of VB and Mackay again. And wright is definitely out.

 

[Elder van Berlo]

You do know, Andrea Iguodula is a 3 time NBA All star, all defensive first and second team, Olympic gold medalist.

He then took a 6th man role to help the team. He is still an elite NBA player.

You do know he got the NBA finals MVP for guarding LeBron James. And that the relevance of the MVP debate to this thread came about by you saying that people don't win individual awards for defensive roles. (Edit: add Kawhi Leonard to the same category - the last 2 NBA Finals MVPs have pretty much got the gong for stopping LeBron).

Having criticized the "elite" debate (which is already well off topic), I won't perpetuate it in a whole other sport in relation to Andre Iguodala. He was an outstanding player and is still a good player.

 

[Jimmystephenson]

You do know he got the NBA finals MVP for guarding LeBron James. And that the relevance of the MVP debate to this thread came about by you saying that people don't win individual awards for defensive roles.

Having criticized the "elite" debate (which is already well off topic), I won't perpetuate it in a whole other sport in relation to Andre Iguodala. He was an outstanding player and is still a good player.

RE: Iguodala, winning tends to help winning the award too

 

[FR0GGY]

or B Crouch

Or even smith