List Mgmt. 2015 general list discussion and speculation - PLEASE START NEW THREAD ON BREAKING NEWS

[Stan The Caddy]

Great question, and one the club should have been thinking about two to three seasons ago. Which was precisely when they began the 'policy' of studiously not resting any veterans, and especially not resting veteran defenders, and above all, not resting key defenders.

A simple "no" would have sufficed.

 

[BlightysCats]

If I was to be controversial re list management I would consider trading at the end of the year (unless things change dramatically and we were going to get something we liked for them) -

Smedts and Murdoch. However we have a few retiring and a few that thru injury maybe moved on - so there maybe no need to trade them so they might be at the club next season.

But I am not convinced they are the players to take us forward - when we need to catch the Hawks, Port and Swans and GC and GWS slowly getting better with dynamite lists. So we have to be ruthless IMO if we are going to catch these teams in the 2 seasons.

It may just take us getting Danger and trading these 2 (if they are worth anything in the open market) to get another good player for us to leap to the top again.

We really should have kept Mitch Brown as a possible defender and delisted Smedts. I honestly can't see Smedts going anywhere at AFL level his disposal is shocking. Mitch Brown was never given much of a go then played bloody well in the final against North and we get rid of him? It certainly left me puzzled, though I know Smedts is one of Scott's favourites.

 

[Lana]

We really should have kept Mitch Brown as a possible defender and delisted Smedts. I honestly can't see Smedts going anywhere at AFL level his disposal is shocking. Mitch Brown was never given much of a go then played bloody well in the final against North and we get rid of him? It certainly left me puzzled, though I know Smedts is one of Scott's favourites.

If they wanted to they could have kept Brown and not de-listed Smedts. They chose to pick up Blease instead of Brown. Shows how little they rated Brown. I was a Brown fan but there's no point complaining about it now, he's gone and playing for Essendon for the next game and then Sandringham for the rest of the year and Smedts is a Cat.

Poor guy finally get through a pre-season and you want to crucify him, leave poor Smedts alone. I'm willing to back him to be on our list in three years time.

 

[BlightysCats]

If they wanted to they could have kept Brown and not de-listed Smedts. They chose to pick up Blease instead of Brown. Shows how little they rated Brown. I was a Brown fan but there's no point complaining about it now, he's gone and playing for Essendon for the next game and then Sandringham for the rest of the year and Smedts is a Cat.

Poor guy finally get through a pre-season and you want to crucify him, leave poor Smedts alone. I'm willing to back him to be on our list in three years time.

No way Smedts will be on our list in 3 years. I don't hate the guy or anything I just don't see anything in him. He's too physically small and easily bumped off the ball, has poor decision making, and poor disposal. I hope I'm proven wrong and he stars this year but I doubt he'll even play more than 3 or 4 games at best in 2015. I think Josh Cowan will cement the small defensive roll this year. I'd even back Cowan over Bews at this stage (mainly because of how young Bews is)

 

[THE CAT WRANGLER]

No way Smedts will be on our list in 3 years. I don't hate the guy or anything I just don't see anything in him. He's too physically small and easily bumped off the ball, has poor decision making, and poor disposal. I hope I'm proven wrong and he stars this year but I doubt he'll even play more than 3 or 4 games at best in 2015. I think Josh Cowan will cement the small defensive roll this year. I'd even back Cowan over Bews at this stage (mainly because of how young Bews is)

Not sure Smedts will even be on list next year always tries to take them on and gets caught every time,poor disposal,poor decision making has to do the simple things better

 

[ButterMill]

To hard part with Smedts, and it has been discussed often, he doesn't look like a back.

I think he is handy overhead, quick without the ball, seems very fit this season, is a decent height, and is competing hard. Against Adelaide he was right into the game, shouting instructions from the side, pointing etc, he has bought in. Can get a bit of the ball too.

Bad disposal and decision making under pressure. Lack of strength in one on one contests. Those appear to be the negatives.

The negatives look like they outweigh the positives, but plenty of players weren't hitting targets that night. And it isn't like every kick is terrible, he makes a couple, one a nice low pass up the wing in front of me.

The right position, some confidence, and maybe he is a player. Gut says he'll struggle but Wells saw something, and likely it was his instinct for the game as he looked raw early on. My concern is down back his instinct gets him in trouble, but can't chuck every cute kicker in our fwd line.

The last thing from that Adelaide game is one of the times he really got towelled up was against Danger and Danger is one of the top players in the game. No huge dishonour in being out muscled by him.

As a defender he may get a bag kicked on him, Bews too. That is the tough part of the craft. A full game down back against Carlton, and faith each week, I am hoping with 20 games in a row in that position, if that is the one he settles in, he'll start to impress. Maybe we just need patience, ignore his draft position, ignore who they delisted in keeping him as that isn't his decision.

 

[David the Cat]

Way too early to be writing Smedts off IMO. HE's had his first full pre-season and clearly has ability…and the season hasn't started yet. Lets give the lad a fair go and see how he's performed in the first 6 games or so...

 

[catempire]

There is a perception vs reality conflict with Smedts' disposal.

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

There is a perception vs reality conflict with Smedts' disposal.

In that a lot of people think it's worse than it really is? Maybe, not sure. Personally, he does stand out giving a LOT of hospital balls to teammates when he is under pressure to me. Hyphen the same at times.

I see a lot of dinky handballs from those two when they're under pump that give teammates no chance but that is just my perception.

 

[bulletproof]

I still remember Smedts making a telling contribution in that famous Hawkins Hawthorn game in 2012, across half forward. Must have been one of his very first games.

That is why his injuries and now playing out of position is so frustrating. He has definite talent as a creative flanker.

I hope this defensive experiment ends before his confidence is lost.

 

[fpm84]

I still remember Smedts making a telling contribution in that famous Hawkins Hawthorn game in 2012, across half forward. Must have been one of his very first games.

That is why his injuries and now playing out of position is so frustrating. He has definite talent as a creative flanker.

I hope this defensive experiment ends before his confidence is lost.

Bang on the money.

Smedts has shown plenty of promise as a crumbing forward. He's quick, evasive and knows his way around goals. In 2013 he kicked 10 goals in his first seven games, including against reasonable teams like Hawthorn, Sydney and Essendon (who were top of the ladder when we played them in round 7).

With Bews and Thurlow in the wings, I don't see why we need another small defender. But we are crying out for a small forward. Christensen is gone and played more midfield anyway, Motlop is too valuable to keep inside forward 50m all game, McCarthy is perennially injured and somebody like Burbury who got opportunities last year (5 games for 1 goal - a far cry from what Billie offered the year prior) is no longer on our list.

Smedts has had some significant injuries and is has just completed his first full pre-season. Anybody who hasn't seen glimpses of his talent - like his work to set up Hawkins' second last goal in the 2013 Hawks clash, or his great goal on the run v Essendon in 2013 - isn't looking hard enough.

If we persist with him as a defender I imagine he'll struggle to hold down a senior spot and posters here will call for his head at the end of 2015. If we play him where we're desperately crying out for someone, and where he's shown potential - up forward - I for one back him to be one of our biggest improvers this season.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Bang on the money.

Smedts has shown plenty of promise as a crumbing forward. He's quick, evasive and knows his way around goals. In 2013 he kicked 10 goals in his first seven games, including against reasonable teams like Hawthorn, Sydney and Essendon (who were top of the ladder when we played them in round 7).

With Bews and Thurlow in the wings, I don't see why we need another small defender. But we are crying out for a small forward. Christensen is gone and played more midfield anyway, Motlop is too valuable to keep inside forward 50m all game, McCarthy is perennially injured and somebody like Burbury who got opportunities last year (5 games for 1 goal - a far cry from what Billie offered the year prior) is no longer on our list.

Smedts has had some significant injuries and is has just completed his first full pre-season. Anybody who hasn't seen glimpses of his talent - like his work to set up Hawkins' second last goal in the 2013 Hawks clash, or his great goal on the run v Essendon in 2013 - isn't looking hard enough.

If we persist with him as a defender I imagine he'll struggle to hold down a senior spot and posters here will call for his head at the end of 2015. If we play him where we're desperately crying out for someone, and where he's shown potential - up forward - I for one back him to be one of our biggest improvers this season.

Wish I could like your post twice, fpm.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

We really should have kept Mitch Brown as a possible defender and delisted Smedts. I honestly can't see Smedts going anywhere at AFL level his disposal is shocking. Mitch Brown was never given much of a go then played bloody well in the final against North and we get rid of him? It certainly left me puzzled, though I know Smedts is one of Scott's favourites.

Hahahaha!

 

[catempire]

In that a lot of people think it's worse than it really is? Maybe, not sure. Personally, he does stand out giving a LOT of hospital balls to teammates when he is under pressure to me. Hyphen the same at times.

I see a lot of dinky handballs from those two when they're under pump that give teammates no chance but that is just my perception.

Yep, people remember the bad ones. I've posted it before but he was near the top, maybe even top, of disposal efficiency in 2014 for us.

*cue the stats sceptics chiming in*

 

[Lana]

Yep, people remember the bad ones. I've posted it before but he was near the top, maybe even top, of disposal efficiency in 2014 for us.

*cue the stats sceptics chiming in*

Last year
57 Disposals (61 possessions)
6 Clangers
5 free kicks against
1 direct turnover by poor disposal or fumble . or 1.6% of his possessions.
80.7% disposal efficiency, third in the team.

Maths checks out, Smedts is one of our safest players to give the ball to .

 

[Partridge]

Last year
57 Disposals (61 possessions)
6 Clangers
5 free kicks against
1 direct turnover by poor disposal or fumble . or 1.6% of his possessions.
80.7% disposal efficiency, third in the team.

Maths checks out, Smedts is one of our safest players to give the ball to .

I'll take a 80% disposal efficiency from any player without thinking. Especially someone running the ball out of defence; which he was last season.

People see what they want to see. Once a viewpoint is formed, facts simply don't matter.

 

[Jon Douglas]

If we play Smedts - p-lease down forward.

It is not his disposal that concerns me (though he has a strange ball drop) but his poor decision making.

Watching a NAB game and he was kicking out he chose to kick to Blease (a small) who was opposed by 3 opponents ??????

In the same game he ran on and got the ball and handpassed it to a guy who had no chance to use the ball. He just makes horrible decisions and needs to be somewhere on the ground where it hurts us less if he makes a poor decision - like the forward line.

 

[Lana]

I'll take a 80% disposal efficiency from any player without thinking. Especially someone running the ball out of defence; which he was last season.

People see what they want to see. Once a viewpoint is formed, facts simply don't matter.

I collected the stat, but it's pretty meaningless, he isn't the most aggressive rebounding defender, he likes to switch it by foot(like he's probably directed to in the game plan) which naturally increases his disposal efficiency. Not that I have anything against his disposal (he's a reliable short kick), I think that he will play his role well.

Agree with Jon Douglas , it's his decision making that hurts him when he rebounds but I'd back that to improve as he gets more game time in the role.

 

[thegerman]

I'll take a 80% disposal efficiency from any player without thinking. Especially someone running the ball out of defence; which he was last season.

People see what they want to see. Once a viewpoint is formed, facts simply don't matter.

I think that perception could also include him being tackled, holding it or just not quick enough as he is tackled.

But that comes with experience and strength, which he has struggled with.

I think we give him a go, I'd prefer him forward.

 

[thegerman]

If we play Smedts - p-lease down forward.

It is not his disposal that concerns me (though he has a strange ball drop) but his poor decision making.

Watching a NAB game and he was kicking out he chose to kick to Blease (a small) who was opposed by 3 opponents ??????

In the same game he ran on and got the ball and handpassed it to a guy who had no chance to use the ball. He just makes horrible decisions and needs to be somewhere on the ground where it hurts us less if he makes a poor decision - like the forward line.

Yep that was a bad decision. Especially when our talls had lined up on the opposite side.

But all players make a bad decision during the game, that's the risk strategy of each player. Just got to mitigate those I guess.

Play him forward, don't let him kick out.

 

[vinum coupe]

There's no way Smedts is a bad kick.
He does lack a bit of penetration, and that is something that will show up kicking from full back.

 

[BlightysCats]

Hahahaha!

Maybe 'bloody well' a bit of a leap... But he did play well, more tackles than Bartel or Kelly on the night, more marks than Harry Taylor or Walker, equal second amount of rebound 50s for the game, and as many possies as Harry Taylor, and Jared Rivers, with a far better disposal efficiency.

 

[BlightysCats]

If we play Smedts - p-lease down forward.

It is not his disposal that concerns me (though he has a strange ball drop) but his poor decision making.

Watching a NAB game and he was kicking out he chose to kick to Blease (a small) who was opposed by 3 opponents ??????

In the same game he ran on and got the ball and handpassed it to a guy who had no chance to use the ball. He just makes horrible decisions and needs to be somewhere on the ground where it hurts us less if he makes a poor decision - like the forward line.

I agree John, his decision making is the real issue. Of his 80% disposal efficiency it doesn't tell you the times he kicked to someone about to get tackled or handballed to someone under extreme pressure which ended up in a turnover. As I said I hope he does star this year obviously!!! But if he doesn't get near it I think he has to go.

 

[Partridge]

I agree John, his decision making is the real issue. Of his 80% disposal efficiency it doesn't tell you the times he kicked to someone about to get tackled or handballed to someone under extreme pressure which ended up in a turnover. As I said I hope he does star this year obviously!!! But if he doesn't get near it I think he has to go.

It doesn't. But I have to say, it doesn't seem like we apply the same scrutiny to anyone else about their disposal. It seems more to me like people are looking for flaws in Smedts' game above all else. We don't analyse the disposal efficiencies of Guthrie or Caddy or Horlin-Smith to the same degree, and I'm sure they've all dished out a hospital handpass on occasion (the last two certainly have). It's more like finding the most tenuous connection to an already existing bias.

Smedts may not make it. I'm not convinced at all that he's a defender, and I personally would definitely prefer him to be in the forward half of the ground (half forward flank would be ideal). But he looks fitter than ever, very focused, and I can't question his efforts so far this year. I'm reluctant to rip apart every mistake he makes, because we're happy to look the other way with plenty of his teammates.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Maybe 'bloody well' a bit of a leap... But he did play well, more tackles than Bartel or Kelly on the night, more marks than Harry Taylor or Walker, equal second amount of rebound 50s for the game, and as many possies as Harry Taylor, and Jared Rivers, with a far better disposal efficiency.

I'd say that Brown played average, at best. And that's by his standards.