List Mgmt. 2015 general list discussion and speculation - PLEASE START NEW THREAD ON BREAKING NEWS

[dazbroncos]

I'm probably more worried about Kersten.

Mainly because he's been there about 4 years and can't keep his spot.
And I should add, it's probably his fault that he hasn't. But he may get frustrated.

You think it is or is not Kerstens fault?
I read your post but it reads both ways…
Not disagreeing just clarifying.

GO Catters

 

[Turbocat]

McStay is signed with the lions until the end of 2017.
http://www.triplem.com.au/melbourne...l-tie-him-to-the-lions-until-the-end-of-2017/

And the club never announced whether Rivers extension last year was for 1 more year or 2 years, so he could be out of contract this year.

Yeah , so what . Contracts are made for ripping up now aren't they


Honestly he is not the type I think we will trade for , my guess is we try to find a "Blease" somewhere. a 188/191 defender type delisted by a club.

 

[Turbocat]

Realistically Kolo is a second year KPD, not many KPD's play a stack of afl in their second year unless they are in bottom 4 sides as they take time to develop physically. With Lonergan and Rivers having only a year or two to go and Enright going after this year he will get opportunities soon, maybe even this year. The only reason he leaves is if he's jealous that his brother is playing afl than he isn't, but if he's realistic he will know his long term future her is very good as we have no other KPD except Delaney.

Walker and Kersten is different because Clark and Stanley are 27 and 24 respectively so if those two stay fit they could be stuck behind them for years. Hence why I think we lose one of them at year;s end unless the two guys we traded in are injured. I can live with this so long as we trade them to fix a list weakness like a good clearance midfielder or a good ruckman to replace McIntosh. I'd be filthy if we lost Walker in particular for little return.

Thurlow by all reports was training the house down before the kidney injury, that will have set him back a long way but I expect to see him in the 1's in the second half of the year, he and Bews are the two defenders I expect to see come in.

On rivers I don't think he's as certain to go as you suggest, form is outstanding and don't forget he is probably more desperate to win a flag than any player on our list, it's why he came here. The only reason he retires this year is if his knee can't get up for games anymore, if it still can and if we are still in contention he will play another year even if his number of games has to be managed.

Astute as always.

 

[Bobby_]

I'm probably more worried about Kersten.

Mainly because he's been there about 4 years and can't keep his spot.
And I should add, it's probably his fault that he hasn't. But he may get frustrated.

Kersten was drafted in 2011, he began playing VFL in 2012, that's 3 years. If he has not made any progress this year and it's then 4 years and still losing his spot then yep, it's concerning but this year he's injury free and looking fine. Should be ready to play most of the game against Carlton.

 

[vinum coupe]

You think it is or is not Kerstens fault?
I read your post but it reads both ways…
Not disagreeing just clarifying.

GO Catters

I think he has had chances. Not many.
I really like him, but this is top lvl sport. You need to make a mark quickly.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Kersten was drafted in 2011, he began playing VFL in 2012, that's 3 years. If he has not made any progress this year and it's then 4 years and still losing his spot then yep, it's concerning but this year he's injury free and looking fine. Should be ready to play most of the game against Carlton.

The problem with Kersten is that he will be targeted by WA teams- in particular Freo, who seem to have a few places up for grabs in their senior team.
I think you can give him a little leeway- you mentioned that he's played 3 years but don't forget he was on the brink of a senior game in 2013 but kept getting injured, then was injured again last season right at the pointy end (with suspicion here that he was injured prior to it being made public, hence affecting his performance).

Glad he seems to have recovered from his injury- surgery, wasn't it? Fingers crossed he can get a decent run at it this year.

 

[Turbocat]

The problem with Kersten is that he will be targeted by WA teams- in particular Freo, who seem to have a few places up for grabs in their senior team.
I think you can give him a little leeway- you mentioned that he's played 3 years but don't forget he was on the brink of a senior game in 2013 but kept getting injured, then was injured again last season right at the pointy end (with suspicion here that he was injured prior to it being made public, hence affecting his performance).

Glad he seems to have recovered from his injury- surgery, wasn't it? Fingers crossed he can get a decent run at it this year.

Its up to Kersten. If he makes him self a key part of the side , should be no issue. But as I see him at them moment , he marginally disposable. he must make a stand and stand out.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

On rivers I don't think he's as certain to go as you suggest, form is outstanding and don't forget he is probably more desperate to win a flag than any player on our list, it's why he came here. The only reason he retires this year is if his knee can't get up for games anymore, if it still can and if we are still in contention he will play another year even if his number of games has to be managed.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Rivers is certain to retire at the end of the season but one thing that the club will be aware of is that 2016 will most likely be Lonergan's last year. Do we really want them both retiring at the exact same time? With Blitz and Kolo potentially looking for opportunities as our 3rd tall a tough decision may have to be made on Rivers IMO, even if he is still playing good footy by the end of the year.

I know that it would be harsh but the club has to come first in this situation to ensure that our succession planning runs as smoothly as possible. It shouldn't just be about how many players retire at the end of the season, but also the type of player that may or may not be retiring.

 

[Turbocat]

The thing I noticed in the VFL was apart from Kolo , we really didn't have any listed players down there. Long term planning? Not so much that I didn't like the VFL player but they can not help us long term.

Now , I know we have a few tallish options that just aren't there atm. Toohey , Blitz , Delaney and maybe Stanley...but I dont see a lot of medium defenders on our list , that 187/191 type.

Mackie 192
Jansen 192
Kersten 191
Murdoch 190
Thurlow 190
Smedts 189
Johnson 189
Menzel 188
Duncan 188
GHS 188
Hartman 188
Bartel 187
Enright 187

Thurlow perhaps but considering how crowded it is in the forwardline now... could Kersten play that role? Or what about Jansen? If Menzel can get back he may a good option I guess. No young Milburn coming up that I can see.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

The thing I noticed in the VFL was apart from Kolo , we really didn't have any listed players down there. Long term planning? Not so much that I didn't like the VFL player but they can not help us long term.

Now , I know we have a few tallish options that just aren't there atm. Toohey , Blitz , Delaney and maybe Stanley...but I dont see a lot of medium defenders on our list , that 187/191 type.

Mackie 192
Jansen 192
Kersten 191
Murdoch 190
Thurlow 190
Smedts 189
Johnson 189
Menzel 188
Duncan 188
GHS 188
Hartman 188
Bartel 187
Enright 187

Thurlow perhaps but considering how crowded it is in the forwardline now... could Kersten play that role? Or what about Jansen? If Menzel can get back he may a good option I guess. No young Milburn coming up that I can see.

Duncan spent some time in the back 6 on Thursday night so he could be someone who might play a little bit across half back. But we may need him in the midfield more often than not though.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Duncan spent some time in the back 6 on Thursday night so he could be someone who might play a little bit across half back. But we may need him in the midfield more often than not though.

I didn't see the game. Was he actually playing back 6, or simply getting back to defend in the way he always does, as part of his long outside running role?

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Turbocat two letters could solve your problem... KK!!

 

[David the Cat]

Duncan spent some time in the back 6 on Thursday night so he could be someone who might play a little bit across half back. But we may need him in the midfield more often than not though.

I noticed that too Stan…..Maybe Duncan might provide run off half back….as well as spending time in the middle. ??

 

[catempire]

I didn't see the game. Was he actually playing back 6, or simply getting back to defend in the way he always does, as part of his long outside running role?

The latter from what I saw.

 

[Turbocat]

Duncan spent some time in the back 6 on Thursday night so he could be someone who might play a little bit across half back. But we may need him in the midfield more often than not though.

VFL is what I was looking at, Im not adverse to the idea of Duncan back id those with the smarts think we have some young mids that can do the role.
I also like the idea of Duncan back because of his foot skills , but I'm not sure about his defensive skills.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

I didn't see the game. Was he actually playing back 6, or simply getting back to defend in the way he always does, as part of his long outside running role?

Nah he was part of the back 6. I noticed it in the 3rd quarter after a goal had been kicked. Whether or not he was just playing there as a way to manage himself through the game or whether we'll see it in the season proper is a different question altogether though.

 

[Turbocat]

Turbocat two letters could solve your problem... KK!!

Yes Im sure we could find a spot for a P5 HBF , not sure how we get it don though. Those GC guys have everything and he is getting games...would you move? Id say its more likely that JK could be traded than us get KK

 

[Stan The Caddy]

I noticed that too Stan…..Maybe Duncan might provide run off half back….as well as spending time in the middle. ??

Yep I think that they love getting the ball in his hands to set things up so he might spend a bit of time back there this year. If players like Stokes, Mots, Lang etc can be effective enough on a wing then we might be able to afford the luxury IMO.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Yes Im sure we could find a spot for a P5 HBF , not sure how we get it don though. Those GC guys have everything and he is getting games...would you move? Id say its more likely that JK could be traded than us get KK

GC had a couple of opportunities to select JK on draft night but decided to select Leslie (a KPD) and Lemmens instead. Perhaps if KK was desperate to want to play with his brother we could entice him to move... Who knows, but I think that if GC wanted JK they had ample opportunities to select him in the first place.

I'd definitely be getting into KK's managers ear if I were S.Hocking that's for sure!

 

[Turbocat]

GC had a couple of opportunities to select JK on draft night but decided to select Leslie (a KPD) and Lemmens instead. Perhaps if KK was desperate to want to play with his brother we could entice him to move... Who knows, but I think that if GC wanted JK they had ample opportunities to select him in the first place.

I'd definitely be getting into KK's managers ear if I were S.Hocking that's for sure!

Again , not sure how we would get it done. And , have not checked , but I think he signed an extension.

 

[Lana]

The thing I noticed in the VFL was apart from Kolo , we really didn't have any listed players down there. Long term planning? Not so much that I didn't like the VFL player but they can not help us long term.

Now , I know we have a few tallish options that just aren't there atm. Toohey , Blitz , Delaney and maybe Stanley...but I dont see a lot of medium defenders on our list , that 187/191 type.

Mackie 192
Jansen 192
Kersten 191
Murdoch 190
Thurlow 190
Smedts 189
Johnson 189
Menzel 188
Duncan 188
GHS 188
Hartman 188
Bartel 187
Enright 187

Thurlow perhaps but considering how crowded it is in the forwardline now... could Kersten play that role? Or what about Jansen? If Menzel can get back he may a good option I guess. No young Milburn coming up that I can see.

Because they were playing in the NAB challenge rather the the VFL. Bews, Smedts are our young defenders who are next inline, you can add Thurlow to that group when he comes back from injury. They might move Murdoch back to the role he started. We have plenty of options

When it comes to defenders who are not key defenders I'm not really fussed about there height. It doesn't really become an issue unless the defender is really short <180cm. For example Murdoch(when he is a defender) who is 190cm plays the same role as Wojcinski who was 180cm. While Milburn was 189cm but played a completely different role.

I break the categorization of defenders into two characteristics
1) Size: tall or medium, alternative terminology Key Position or Non-Key Position
2) Role: lock down or rebounding, alternative terminology negating or attacking

The best defenders are adept at both roles. Most of our defenders in our premiership era were good in both roles, some to the point where you could say which one they suited better. Milburn, Enright and Scarlett are examples of players who could do both roles to a high level.

Bews is a medium lock down defender, While Thurlow is a medium rebounding defender. Smedts is a medium rebounding defender.
Or you could define players with a dominate role while being good at the other
Enright is a medium rebounding defender who can lock down a forward, while J.Hunt is a lock down medium defender who is good at rebounding.

Or as one size but can play as the other(generally in a positive manner for example
You could say that Milburn was a medium defender who could play tall or even mix the terminology: Milburn was a medium defender who could play as a KPD.

I kinda got side tracked, but my point is we have young NKP defenders ready to play round 1 in the AFL if they are given the call up.

 

[Partridge]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Rivers is certain to retire at the end of the season but one thing that the club will be aware of is that 2016 will most likely be Lonergan's last year. Do we really want them both retiring at the exact same time? With Blitz and Kolo potentially looking for opportunities as our 3rd tall a tough decision may have to be made on Rivers IMO, even if he is still playing good footy by the end of the year.

Great question, and one the club should have been thinking about two to three seasons ago. Which was precisely when they began the 'policy' of studiously not resting any veterans, and especially not resting veteran defenders, and above all, not resting key defenders.

 

[Jon Douglas]

If I was to be controversial re list management I would consider trading at the end of the year (unless things change dramatically and we were going to get something we liked for them) -

Smedts and Murdoch. However we have a few retiring and a few that thru injury maybe moved on - so there maybe no need to trade them so they might be at the club next season.

But I am not convinced they are the players to take us forward - when we need to catch the Hawks, Port and Swans and GC and GWS slowly getting better with dynamite lists. So we have to be ruthless IMO if we are going to catch these teams in the 2 seasons.

It may just take us getting Danger and trading these 2 (if they are worth anything in the open market) to get another good player for us to leap to the top again.

 

[David the Cat]

I wouldn't be thinking of trading anybody at this stage of the season…..we haven't played a game yet….

 

[Partridge]

I wouldn't be thinking of trading anybody at this stage of the season…..we haven't played a game yet….

Excellent point. It's easy to jump at shadows after two pre-season games.