List Mgmt. 2015 LIST Discussion - trades, free agency etc

[Juddalenko]

I hope Watson stays.

 

[Cringle]

I hope Watson stays.

Nah Jones is more chance making it as a defender.

 

[Blueboiiz]

Pretty amusing reading the dishlickers trade thread. Some posters are making scenarios in which they get Weitering while others are trading out Boyd.
Eg.

There is a question, this year and next years first rd picks plus Hunter for P2 (Weitering). Plus an agreement they don't match Kreuzer? Maybe some lower picks back our way?

Our Kpd and ruck needs solved in one fell swoop?

I feel dirty even suggesting it...
Offer $$ for Kreuzer (Carlton get pick 2)
Trade Toyd, our 1st rounder, and next years 2nd rounder to Carlton for pick 1 & 2 this year.

Pick up Schache, Weitering & Kreuzer

 

[Prem17]

Yes **** the spoon. Agree completely.

However it is done. We can't change it. We can't make amends for it. There is no next week. We suffer now and endure all the barbs and bullshit once more.

However, rebuilding is our next conversation. #1 is done. Kreuzer is considering an offer elsewhere. #2 could happen because Matty has the power at this moment. We can speculate as to what happens here without embracing the spoon. It's not like we are giving up our draft picks because we don't like what happened to get them.

If he leaves:

Brisbane would be worried about Schache now. We could possibly engineer a #2 for Aish and #3 deal. Then move on #3 to GWS for McCarthy and #10.

This gives us #1, #10, #20 Aish and McCarthy. It would be effectively leveraging that compo pick and losing Kreuzer to gain #10, Aish and McCarthy. That's a very viable way to turn one pick into two rated players and a still decent top 10 pick.

Geelong's first rounder in this scenario has gone back out to #9 (swap with GWS pick 10 if GWS lose tomorrow) and as such could come back into play. #7 was way too high so their win today probably helped us in a sense.

So #1, #9, #10, #20. If Treloar was interested #9 and #10 might get the deal done but I reckon GWS would never have done #10, McCarthy and Treloar for #3 and #9 in the one deal so would probably feel aggrieved at how that one turned out for us and it won't work.

Let's assume the Yarran deal has been done for that first rounder around the #15 mark after compo.

PSD is now a major factor and Carlisle has just the right amount of angst to walk.

#1, #9, #10, #15, #20

In: #9, #10, #15, McCarthy, Aish, Carlisle
Out: #2, Kreuzer, Henderson, Yarran

There is potential to really, really make a massive dent in this rebuild.

ODN - if we give up pick 2 for Aish then we will never get out of the hole we are in.
That is way too high a price to pay for him.
He should be plan b if we can't get Treloar but giving away a top 10 pick for a guy that has had an average year and wants to quit his club after what really amounts to 1.5 years is extremely risky.
We can do without the risk atm.

 

[Styxx]

We're getting a free hit at getting two of the best key position talent in the draft (admittedly at the expense of a fan favourite)

Not happy about getting the spoon, but Jiminy Christmas, I am very excited about our drafting and trade period ..

No offense DVB, but the reason we have another spoon is entirely our drafting and trading being the worst in the league. So to be honest I do not see a reason to trust the club to get it right until they actually get it right.

 

[Blueboiiz]

ODN - if we give up pick 2 for Aish then we will never get out of the hole we are in.
That is way too high a price to pay for him.
He should be plan b if we can't get Treloar but giving away a top 10 pick for a guy that has had an average year and wants to quit his club after what really amounts to 1.5 years is extremely risky.
We can do without the risk atm.

Maybe you misread but Pick 2 for Aish + Pick 3

 

[Cipher]

No offense DVB, but the reason we have another spoon is entirely our drafting and trading being the worst in the league. So to be honest I do not see a reason to trust the club to get it right until they actually get it right.

I take some solace in that we cannot possibly do worse than what we did the last time around. I also believe we've got a solid group on youngsters already, that will look much better with a few years development and/or in a stronger team. Not to mention I think we will have a top 3 mid leading the charge. Things are currently bleak, but I see hope, especially if we add another 4-5 top 20 picks this year.

 

[SBYM]

Pretty amusing reading the dishlickers trade thread. Some posters are making scenarios in which they get Weitering while others are trading out Boyd.

Eg. I feel dirty even suggesting it...
Offer $$ for Kreuzer (Carlton get pick 2)
Trade Toyd, our 1st rounder, and next years 2nd rounder to Carlton for pick 1 & 2 this year.

Pick up Schache, Weitering & Kreuzer

Do they think we are all below the IQ line or something??

 

[gbatman]

Firstly, I will always have a lot of respect for Kreuzer as a Carlton footballer who bought in 100% to playing team football and demonstrated all the traits you would hope to see in a player. Secondly, If letting him go can get us pick 2 to go with our first he then absolutely must be let go.

I know he knocked back a big contract last time but things have changed. He's at the back end of his career and can't achieve much success with us. May as well go to a club and achieve success and earn big with another team who can. His leaving can get us a really high quality player who can be a BIG part of our future success.

The difference between finishing last and second last this year is massive. We lost it for a moment but now the ball is firmly in our court. We have pick one and potentially could have pick two. This could be our Roughead and Franklin draft. This could be the draft that makes up for losing the picks all those years ago. This could be the moment Carlton does it right.

Despite finishing last and all seeming hopeless... Things aren't and far from it. We could have 3 free shots to take who ever we want, at least. I keep saying it, but this is the draft that makes or breaks us. This is the draft that could be the difference is 5+ years time, between us being preliminary finalists and Premiers. We need to be ultra aggressive this trade/draft period because this is where we get our A grade talent from. This is where we grow our own and take full advantage of our position as last placed side, with a little foundation to build on and loads of solid trade bait. This is where we build our own list, attitudes, culture and quality and leave the past behind.

We haven't had a spine since we last won the flag. Next year we could have a young developing spine with enormous potential. Then we can target midfielders and flankers/pockets.

B: Jaksch Weitering Buckley
HB: Touhy Carlisle Sheehan
C: Byrne Cripps Docherty
HF: *** Casboult Menzel?
F: Silvagni Schache ***
OB: *** Graham ***
IC: *** *** *** ***
Hopefully Murphy and Gibbs go into their 30's

Pick: 7, Rice, Yarran?

Just fill in the gaps with young top level talent.

That's a really solid young group to build on. Thats how you turn a failure of a team on it's head.

If we get pick 7 for Henderson we are laughing! If we get a good first rounder for Yarran then our rebuild is accelerating at an enormous pace. If Bell wants to go north and they can give us something talented then let him go as well. We have an enormous opportunity and I don't think people quite get just how big this year is for the Carlton footy club. This year really is make or break.

Yes, Weitering and Schache might be no good, they also might be the All Australian CHB and CHF... If we aren't willing to take these chances we will NEVER win a premiership.

As much respect as I have for Kreuzer, I will be spewing if we miss out on using his departure to get a potential gun key position player. I was 60/40 in letting him go until we finished last, now we'd be really stupid not to let him go. As good as he's been, being just a ruckman, injury prone and 26 he's not a priority for us, not over a gun 18-19 year old key position player.

Finishing last is just a title that no one remembers. Who we trade and let go is forgotten when success comes. All this talk about keeping players because they possess the right stuff, it's also why they are worth so much. What matters is premierships and that's what it's all about.

We might have a massive job ahead of us but we have an enormous opportunity to jump right back up the top of the ladder. A fresh young impressionable side brought up with a good young coach, loads of trade ammo, early picks and an already existing foundation of good young players. As bad as we are now, it's really hard to not see Carlton coming good as long as we do the right things. But we need to FULLY embrace the modern environment that we are in.

Exciting times to come.

 

[zeeCFC]

The way Barker talks of Kreuzer seems we have a reasonable contract in front of him. Up to Matty, good chance he stays.

 

[Wickzki]

Any possible way we can add Weitering, Schache and Harry McKay through the ND and Jake Carlisle in the PSD?

McKay - Schache - Cripps - Carlisle - Weitering

A long term spine completed through one year of drafting. Carlisle being the oldest at almost 24 and then Cripps just entering his 20's.

 

[HalAlaric]

Before I begin the rant I want to state I would actually love to hang on to all of Kreuzer, Yarran and Menzel.

Henderson to be let go to the highest bidder and Bell to go home to Queensland due to personal reasons (#2 + #19 + Bell + White to GCS for #4 + Peter Wright + Zac Smith).
Would love to nab Carlisle in the preseason draft but if it goes ahead I would say a late 1st rounder would be what they would want.

If #2 is on the cards though for Kreuzer leaving I agree it's too good an opportunity to pass up.
As for Yarran I guess it's the club's decision on whether he bleeds blue or not. Hopefully yes. Hypothetically, if he leaves to say Richmond we could roughly receive pick 15.
Menzel should not be traded! He will be 21 next year and definitely in our best 22. More time boosting his development and a strong pre season should have him rotating through the midfield and kicking 30+ goals a year.

With receiving #2 for Kreuzer and a possible #10 and #15 for Henderson and Yarran respectively we head into the draft.

Draft:
#1 Weitering
#2 or #4 Francis
#10 Curnow
#15 Weideman or Carlisle
#19 GCS trade or best mid available
3rd Rd Rice
4th Rd Silvagni

Whilst it is my opinion that Weitering is a must I am not so sure about Schache. I'm sure he oozes talent but he did come out and state how he would love to get drafted by the Lions. Francis has been likened to the Brendan Goddard mold and I believe would be an amazing pick up for the club.
Curnow, Weideman, Rice and Silvagni to round out the draft. In a perfect blue world then Carlisle through PSD as well.

Any thoughts especially about the Schache thing?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

ODN - if we give up pick 2 for Aish then we will never get out of the hole we are in.
That is way too high a price to pay for him.
He should be plan b if we can't get Treloar but giving away a top 10 pick for a guy that has had an average year and wants to quit his club after what really amounts to 1.5 years is extremely risky.
We can do without the risk atm.

Read it again.

 

[1864]

If we get pick 2 via compo for MK8 and take Schache. He might turn around and say after 2 years I wanna get traded to Bris. Theres a strong connection because of his Dad.
Big risk!

 

[Heres Waite]

Yes **** the spoon. Agree completely.

However it is done. We can't change it. We can't make amends for it. There is no next week. We suffer now and endure all the barbs and bullshit once more.

However, rebuilding is our next conversation. #1 is done. Kreuzer is considering an offer elsewhere. #2 could happen because Matty has the power at this moment. We can speculate as to what happens here without embracing the spoon. It's not like we are giving up our draft picks because we don't like what happened to get them.

If he leaves:

Brisbane would be worried about Schache now. We could possibly engineer a #2 for Aish and #3 deal. Then move on #3 to GWS for McCarthy and #10.

This gives us #1, #10, #20 Aish and McCarthy. It would be effectively leveraging that compo pick and losing Kreuzer to gain #10, Aish and McCarthy. That's a very viable way to turn one pick into two rated players and a still decent top 10 pick.

Geelong's first rounder in this scenario has gone back out to #9 (swap with GWS pick 10 if GWS lose tomorrow) and as such could come back into play. #7 was way too high so their win today probably helped us in a sense.

So #1, #9, #10, #20. If Treloar was interested #9 and #10 might get the deal done but I reckon GWS would never have done #10, McCarthy and Treloar for #3 and #9 in the one deal so would probably feel aggrieved at how that one turned out for us and it won't work.

Let's assume the Yarran deal has been done for that first rounder around the #15 mark after compo.

PSD is now a major factor and Carlisle has just the right amount of angst to walk.

#1, #9, #10, #15, #20

In: #9, #10, #15, McCarthy, Aish, Carlisle
Out: #2, Kreuzer, Henderson, Yarran

There is potential to really, really make a massive dent in this rebuild.

I enjoyed your post ODN. I agree with your assessments on the spoon and Kruezer. I'm not happy about finishing last but it is what it is and now we have to move forward. Same with Kruez, I wouldn't be happy if he left but if he did we have to take advantage of the compo we receive for him.

I think it's time we start embracing the draft and developing our own. In my opinion there are two standouts in this years draft. All year the debate has been who is better and who will go no.1. Both players happen to be KPP's the most expensive commodities to trade for, and the area in which Carlton lack severely, therefore if we do get pick 2 for Kruez we would be absolutely mad to not get both Weitering and Schache.

I'd go:

#1 Weitering
#2 Schache
# 10 (Cats) Charlie Curnow
#15 (tigers) and Bell = Mayes/Redden and Aish?? (I need to think on this one more)
#20 Wiedeman
3rd round. Bailey Rice
4th round SOSOS
PSD Carlisle

Set up our spine for the future in the one draft (Weitering, Carlisle, Wiedeman, Schache), add some quality midfielders (Curnow, Mayes/Redden, Aish), and add two quality Father sons.

We then need to develop!!! Look after these new draftees. Provided that we develop them properly, we have an amazing start to our rebuild! We will look back on this draft like Hawks Buddy/Roughy draft or Geelongs Bartel/Kelley/Ablett/Steve Johnson draft

 

[Heres Waite]

If we get pick 2 via compo for MK8 and take Schache. He might turn around and say after 2 years I wanna get traded to Bris. Theres a strong connection because of his Dad.
Big risk!

I don't think that will happen to be honest. It's not like he has lived in Queensland and has family there. His dad was from Adelaide, played most of his career with woodville in the SANFL and only later got drafted to Brisbane where he only played 29 games. Has grown up in Victoria. His extended family is all in Adelaide and Victoria. I just can't see him wanting to go to Brisbane after two years.

 

[LordLucifer]

I hope Watson stays.

I pray this is tongue-in-cheek ??

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I pray this is tongue-in-cheek ??

Its a list spot.

Played his best game yesterday and didn't rely on free kicks or luck. Might have reached that age where he kicks off.

 

[HARKER]

Its a list spot.

Played his best game yesterday and didn't rely on free kicks or luck. Might have reached that age where he kicks off.

We'll have plenty moved on or away for one reason or another.

No issue with Watson remaining if Bolton wants him. Would actually be pleased.

 

[thylacine60]

smae

 

[zeggie]

This could be our Roughead and Franklin draft.

Looks like herald sun stole your quote lol
"This is Carlton’s Roughead and Franklin moment."

http://m.perthnow.com.au/news/carlt...r-a-draft-bounty/story-e6frg12c-1227514452373

Always knew the sun gets their stuff from bigfooty

 

[Wickzki]

If we get pick 2 via compo for MK8 and take Schache. He might turn around and say after 2 years I wanna get traded to Bris. Theres a strong connection because of his Dad.
Big risk!

Good thing his captain will have endured the same type of pull that he will be confronting then, isn't it?

A great opportunity for Marc to guide a young champion.

 

[1864]

Good thing his captain will have endured the same type of pull that he will be confronting then, isn't it?

A great opportunity for Marc to guide a young champion.

Excellent point Wickzki. Lets hope your right. Murph is a great example.

 

[Wickzki]

Thought given the discussion re: National Draft picks, potential trades (i.e. Henderson to Geelong) it would serve well to have an understanding of where each team stands in regards to selection.

This is based upon GWS *not* winning today or not gaining that small percentage boost to move down past Geelong. If they do then GWS and Geelong swap picks. It's also based upon both Kreuzer and Leuenberger netting band one compensation picks and the AFL not plucking a priority pick out of thin air for Brisbane. It is also based on no other teams activating compensation picks that they already own (not sure if anyone can do that or not). Currently the only compensation pick activated is Gold Coast's sandwich pick between the first and second rounds. Furthermore, with the academy players this will further adjust throughout the AFL National Draft.

1 Carlton
2 Carlton*
3 Brisbane
4 Brisbane*
5 Gold Coast
6 Essendon
7 Melbourne
8 St. Kilda
9 Collingwood
10 GWS
11 Geelong
12 Port Adelaide
13 North Melbourne
14 Adelaide
15 Western Bulldogs
16 Richmond
17 Sydney
18 Hawthorn
19 West Coast
20 Fremantle
--
21 Gold Coast
--
22 Carlton
23 Brisbane
etc.

Edit: 10,000th post. 5 figures. Some may suggest 9,999 too many (surely I've got one decent post).

 

[HARKER]

We'll have a much clearer picture of things after this week.
Exit meetings will commence and with the season done for many clubs, the real talks will start (or at least the more open ones)

Carlton currently have 4 primary list spots open after losing Judd, Carrazzo, Henderson and Ellard.

Then we have other possible trade movers in: Kreuzer, Yarran, Menzel and Bell.
They won't all happen but if they did there are 8 spots open before we've quite anyone.

Those that may be a little nervous right now:

Primary List: Warnock, Watson, Holman and Giles............Armfield?
Rookie List: Johnson, Walsh, Gowers & Fields

We're not going to lose/move on 17 players. 10 will likely top it out.