List Mgmt. 2017 Trade & FA Targets Part 1

[Crusty Undies]

Look pretty on par tbh.

They're building nicely, no doubt. But they have 2 blue chip youngsters in Oliver and Hogan. Not 5.

Solid players won't cut it with the GWS monstrosity. That's why Salem and Tyson for Kelly wasn't worth it. And why we should thank our lucky stars Gresham fell into our lap (even tho Parish, Hopper & Kennedy weren't available). They can still add great players tho.

Petracca is a talent, but give me:
Kelly, Bontempelli, Cripps, Merrett, Lever, Heeney, Weitering, Oliver, Parish, Hopper, Kennedy, Gresham, Mills & McGrath.

And on par/close with with Acres, Fantasia, Weller, Steele, Taranto, Logue, Powell-Pepper, Florent, Simpkin, etc.

Vince and Jones will be cooked before they just make finals in 2018.

Melksham, Kennedy-Harris, Stretch, Watts, Neal-Bullen....

We add say, Rockcliff & Hopper and we'll fly past them (if they don't sort out their defence and/or recruit a superstar).

Melbourne can look incredible one week, but so can us, the Bombers and Freo.

Lol nah. Petracca is better than all the ones you said on par/close with and he'd still be picked ahead of Kennedy, McGrath, Lever and others depending on who wanted him.

Also I think you're pretty brutal on their mids tbh. Jones has carried their midfield for years, they've recently added Vince, Viney (FS pick), Trucks (2), Brayshaw(3), Oliver(4), Tyson(3) and Salem(8). That's a way deeper mid than ours appears to be atm and Hogan has shown more than all 3 of our marking forwards in the last 2 years.

 

[VDS66]

Recruiting and development are not an instant action/ reaction thing. There is a time lag involved.

People looking at Geelong need to consider the following...

They are an exceptionally well run club. We were the opposite until recently, and ironically Peter Summer sat down with Brian Cook to learn why they went so well.

So we are starting on the back foot and our recent decision won't bear fruit for another few years.

Secondly, they have had a vfl side for years and ask anyone itk they will confirm that it helps their development. Whilst their veterans play, the kids learn their craft at VLF level. Net result is that they can slot right in when promoted.

We have had no such luxuries until this year where the new alignment arrangements begin. So we are chasing tail on that aspect.

Thirdly, we are start from a completely different situation. Had we won a flag, then it wouldn't seem so bad.

However, we are still paying for the sins of the past in terms of cap and drafts. I suggest we should started the cleaning after 2010, but we didn't.

So have had to wipe the slate clean and start from scratch.

Lol at Scott being hard arsed... inherited a list at their peak, did an Alan Joyce and won a flag... nothing since that year.

In terms of drafting etc...

We have been aggressive. I believe WCE almost had Sloane over the line. Would we have got Petracca? Most likely until the whole Boyd deal changed the landscape for key forwards. Cats have Hawkins and don't need to worry about a kpf to replace Roo.

Our club has put a long term plan in place to create sustainable long term success. We started 8 years after the cats, so we are way behind.

 

[Crusty Undies]

That's some of the funniest stuff I've ever read.

Not one person on this board would be jealous of Melbourne. This is the team that still looks a middling team even though they've had roughly 30 1st round draft picks in the last 15 years. They should be like GWS, but they aren't even close. As for our game against them, we could play that Round 1 game 10x over & get a different result every time. That was their Grand Final, they'd set themselves for that game ever since we beat them a 2nd time last year. No one wants to be on the losing end of a 10yr streak.

Am I jealous of their young blokes, **** no. They got Oliver by trading a future pick.... Well, we have our own future pick this year courtesy of Hawthorn. Am I jealous of Petracca? **** no. Bloke looks likes the biggest downhill skier of all time & is all hype. I laugh every time the commentators wet their pants in excitement over him executing a simple kick or handball - it's ******* hilarious. People hang shit on Paddy for not having a tank, Petracca would have the worst tank on that entire Melbourne list.

If we look at our own list, the only area we lack depth in is the midfield class, both inside & outside, as well as a 3rd tall defender type. Forward line & backline has plenty of depth.

I'm sick of all the doom & gloom. Melbourne have beaten us & Carlton. We have beaten Collingwood & Brisbane, while also leading for 3/4s of the games against West Coast (away) & Geelong. We are far from a finished product, but don't paint us that a team like Melbourne is better than us. They are sitting on exactly the same amount of wins & losses & in no way looked better than we have bar our shit effort in round 1.

We didn't just lose to Melbourne though did we Rors. We got absolutely stomped after quarter time in almost every stat. I was at the game and they completely dominated play in the second half when we struggled to lay a finger on the ball and it never left our back half. If you aren't jealous of Oliver and Petracca then there's something wrong, both are younger than Billings and we still back him up after every shit game he plays.

 

[Glen Buterol]

What do you think Dunstan is? He hit the ground running at a sprint in the first year and hasn't recovered since...

Dunstan is a man child. Playing junior footy he was a man against children & dominated accordingly. Coming into the AFL he adapted well however it was a short time lived when his deficiencies were exposed. Barge arse with no pace. No agility. No tank. Strong as an ox though & by all reports well endowed which may be why Richo loves him. Who knows. Richo is a man of mystery.

If you had of read on I addressed Dunstan as that ready to go type. Obviously other attributes are assessed in the war room when ranking draftees.

 

[Rors]

We didn't just lose to Melbourne though did we Rors. We got absolutely stomped after quarter time in almost every stat. I was at the game and they completely dominated play in the second half when we struggled to lay a finger on the ball and it never left our back half. If you aren't jealous of Oliver and Petracca then there's something wrong, both are younger than Billings and we still back him up after every shit game he plays.

Billings isn't a midfielder for starters so not sure why you compare him to Oliver & Petracca is all hype. Billings shits on Petracca.

Like I said, you play that round 1 game 10x over & you'd get a different result every time. I just don't see why you think they have gone past us. Yes they have a better midfield, but that's where it ends. Our forward & defence lines shit on theirs

 

[gringo2011]

Dunstan is a man child. Playing junior footy he was a man against children & dominated accordingly. Coming into the AFL he adapted well however it was a short time lived when his deficiencies were exposed. Barge arse with no pace. No agility. No tank. Strong as an ox though & by all reports well endowed which may be why Richo loves him. Who knows. Richo is a man of mystery.

If you had of read on I addressed Dunstan as that ready to go type. Obviously other attributes are assessed in the war room when ranking draftees.

What hurts the most is Trent Dumont has stepped it up this year the way I was hoping Dunstan would, he's gone up to about 22 possessions a game in a much stronger midfield. Those two were connected at draft time but North got him much later, they also got Ryan Clarke cheap. We should have been looking for these high possession players who went later than expected.

 

[Glen Buterol]

What hurts the most is Trent Dumont has stepped it up this year the way I was hoping Dunstan would, he's gone up to about 22 possessions a game in a much stronger midfield. Those two were connected at draft time but North got him much later, they also got Ryan Clarke cheap. We should have been looking for these high possession players who went later than expected.

Matt Crouch is the one that baffled me. Not just with us passing on him a couple of times but other clubs too. He was an absolute beast as a junior & is tough to beat in the contests at the top level.

 

[Marlo]

Lol nah. Petracca is better than all the ones you said on par/close with and he'd still be picked ahead of Kennedy, McGrath, Lever and others depending on who wanted him.

Also I think you're pretty brutal on their mids tbh. Jones has carried their midfield for years, they've recently added Vince, Viney (FS pick), Trucks (2), Brayshaw(3), Oliver(4), Tyson(3) and Salem(8). That's a way deeper mid than ours appears to be atm and Hogan has shown more than all 3 of our marking forwards in the last 2 years.

Yeah, I'd select him over the on par/close on potential for the most part, but he's not miles ahead in regards to output.

Melbourne lucked out with the Frawley compo with two top 5 picks. But, the '14 Draft actually looks really weak compared to '13, '15 and possibly '16.

Unlikely that Brayshaw is ever going to be a star. And Petracca is just huge potential with a simple head (see Jake Stringer).

If they had of kept pick 2, drafted Kelly, and have gotten Petracca and Lever in the '14 draft, I'd be slightly more worried.

Could have done better, could have done worse (as Sainters we know too well), but the point is that they certainly don't have some great upper hand.

Not in the same stratosphere as GWS.

And they can have 6-8 mids that are showing more than our 6-8 mids, what matters is having 3 stars that are better than their 3 best midfielders. Which we don't have. But it's not like it is some epic challenge of the Lions fab 5 or the Giants debacle. Have them covered pretty much everywhere else.

 

[Rors]

What hurts the most is Trent Dumont has stepped it up this year the way I was hoping Dunstan would, he's gone up to about 22 possessions a game in a much stronger midfield. Those two were connected at draft time but North got him much later, they also got Ryan Clarke cheap. We should have been looking for these high possession players who went later than expected.

Personally, I'd like to see Luke being told to go back to being the 'see ball, get ball' player he was before he was 'overcoached'. Ever since he was instructed to be more defensive, he's gone backwards. He definitely needs a spe in the 2s but when he forces his way back, I'd like to see him be allowed to play his natural game

 

[gringo2011]

Billings isn't a midfielder for starters so not sure why you compare him to Oliver & Petracca is all hype. Billings shits on Petracca.

Like I said, you play that round 1 game 10x over & you'd get a different result every time. I just don't see why you think they have gone past us. Yes they have a better midfield, but that's where it ends. Our forward & defence lines shit on theirs

Petracca is a forward who can play higher up the ground like Billings so not a ridiculous comparison. I think they are pretty even ATM but Petracca looks like such a physical player where Billings still needs some weight.

I can't do the what ifs, we got Billings and he might be a bit of an Adam Schneider, if that's what he is it's what he is. We can't make him any better than he can be. We need to sop worrying about the guys we have got and start working out who we can add to improve us IMO. We are short stars and he still has potential other wise he's handy.

 

[The Jack]

What do you mean? They have only won two games just like us?

So because they have beaten us once in the last 10 or so years we are behind them? They have won exactly the same amount as us this year and finished behind us last year.

What exactly have they done that suggests they are well in front of us?

Beating us comfortably is probably a fair start tbh.

 

[Rors]

Matt Crouch is the one that baffled me. Not just with us passing on him a couple of times but other clubs too. He was an absolute beast as a junior & is tough to beat in the contests at the top level.

Hindsight is a campaigner. I just love hearing supporters of other clubs saying 'I can't believe we overlooked Acres. That kids gonna be a ****ing beast in another 15-20 games'

 

[Diehard Saint]

That's some of the funniest stuff I've ever read.

Not one person on this board would be jealous of Melbourne. This is the team that still looks a middling team even though they've had roughly 30 1st round draft picks in the last 15 years. They should be like GWS, but they aren't even close. As for our game against them, we could play that Round 1 game 10x over & get a different result every time. That was their Grand Final, they'd set themselves for that game ever since we beat them a 2nd time last year. No one wants to be on the losing end of a 10yr streak.

Am I jealous of their young blokes, **** no. They got Oliver by trading a future pick.... Well, we have our own future pick this year courtesy of Hawthorn. Am I jealous of Petracca? **** no. Bloke looks likes the biggest downhill skier of all time & is all hype. I laugh every time the commentators wet their pants in excitement over him executing a simple kick or handball - it's ******* hilarious. People hang shit on Paddy for not having a tank, Petracca would have the worst tank on that entire Melbourne list.

If we look at our own list, the only area we lack depth in is the midfield class, both inside & outside, as well as a 3rd tall defender type. Forward line & backline has plenty of depth.

I'm sick of all the doom & gloom. Melbourne have beaten us & Carlton. We have beaten Collingwood & Brisbane, while also leading for 3/4s of the games against West Coast (away) & Geelong. We are far from a finished product, but don't paint us that a team like Melbourne is better than us. They are sitting on exactly the same amount of wins & losses & in no way looked better than we have bar our shit effort in round 1.

100% This.

 

[Glen Buterol]

Hindsight is a campaigner. I just love hearing supporters of other clubs saying 'I can't believe we overlooked Acres. That kids gonna be a ******* beast in another 15-20 games'

Iirc knightmare rated him pretty high. Probably the only thing that campaigners ever got right imo

 

[Crusty Undies]

Billings isn't a midfielder for starters so not sure why you compare him to Oliver & Petracca is all hype. Billings shits on Petracca.

Like I said, you play that round 1 game 10x over & you'd get a different result every time. I just don't see why you think they have gone past us. Yes they have a better midfield, but that's where it ends. Our forward & defence lines shit on theirs

Billings definitely doesn't shit on Petracca lmao. Also not sure our forwards shit on theirs as we are yet to have a dominant key forward other than Roo, who unfortunately had to make way for the likes of Paddy, Bruce and Membrey.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Beating us comfortably is probably a fair start tbh.

There were a lot of anomalies in the round 1 results if I recall correctly. There always are. I tipped the favourites and got 3. I've no doubt we play them a lot better if we were playing them again now.

 

[bird_man]

Beating us comfortably is probably a fair start tbh.

Really? One game in 11 years? What about the two comfortable wins we had last year?

Are Freo ahead of Melbourne because they beat them?

 

[Crusty Undies]

Yeah, I'd select him over the on par/close on potential for the most part, but he's not miles ahead in regards to output.

Melbourne lucked out with the Frawley compo with two top 5 picks. But, the '14 Draft actually looks really weak compared to '13, '15 and possibly '16.

Unlikely that Brayshaw is ever going to be a star. And Petracca is just huge potential with a simple head (see Jake Stringer).

If they had of kept pick 2, drafted Kelly, and have gotten Petracca and Lever in the '14 draft, I'd be slightly more worried.

Could have done better, could have done worse (as Sainters we know too well), but the point is that they certainly don't have some great upper hand.

Not in the same stratosphere as GWS.

And they can have 6-8 mids that are showing more than our 6-8 mids, what matters is having 3 stars that are better than their 3 best midfielders. Which we don't have. But it's not like it is some epic challenge of the Lions fab 5 or the Giants debacle. Have them covered pretty much everywhere else.

FWIW I don't think anyone is on the same plane or even close to the Giants in terms of talent. But I also disagree that the first 3 mids are the only ones that matter. Look at Collingwood. Their first 4 mids are Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Treloar and Adams. That is quite possibly the best first 4 in the comp and yet they still regularly lose midfield battles, especially late in games, cos they have no one past that.

 

[Rors]

Billings definitely doesn't shit on Petracca lmao. Also not sure our forwards shit on theirs as we are yet to have a dominant key forward other than Roo, who unfortunately had to make way for the likes of Paddy, Bruce and Membrey.

So your potting a bloke who's kicked 90 goals in the last 2 years (Bruce) & a bloke who's kicked 44 goals in the 3rd tall position last year (Membrey). And all this with a shit midfield!!! Wait til we get a good one.... Look out!

Mate, I'm sorry, but you really do have NFI

You do realise we recruited McCartin for when Roo retires right? I suppose you forgot how good Paddy looked against West Coast when Roo wasn't in the team?

Open your eyes.

 

[gringo2011]

Hindsight is a campaigner. I just love hearing supporters of other clubs saying 'I can't believe we overlooked Acres. That kids gonna be a ******* beast in another 15-20 games'

I rate Acres still, I reckon he'll be a beauty but I wish they'd hurry up and become stars. I'm like some kind of religious nutter who's starting to doubt we have all the answers. I reckon you hit the main issue -ATM no one has really stepped up in any way. Acres even is about what he was in the last part of the year.

 

[The Jack]

Really? One game in 11 years? What about the two comfortable wins we had last year?

Are Freo ahead of Melbourne because they beat them?

That's our most recent encounter and the only one relevant to the now. No point looking back any further. Sydney played in a gf last year. They absolutely brained us. Had over 100 more touches. We were at full strength.

 

[Rors]

Let's face it. Our midfield is average, but when you have Steven, Armitage & Stevens all injured, how do we honestly expect our midfield to be awesome!?

If Melbourne lost Viney, Jones & Tyson, their midfield would be shit too

Look at the bigger picture

 

[bird_man]

That's our most recent encounter and the only one relevant to the now. No point looking back any further. Sydney played in a gf last year. They absolutely brained us. Had over 100 more touches. We were at full strength.

So you are happy to change your opinion after each game?

Even though Melbourne sit 2-3, just like us?

 

[gringo2011]

FWIW I don't think anyone is on the same plane or even close to the Giants in terms of talent. But I also disagree that the first 3 mids are the only ones that matter. Look at Collingwood. Their first 4 mids are Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Treloar and Adams. That is quite possibly the best first 4 in the comp and yet they still regularly lose midfield battles, especially late in games, cos they have no one past that.

It's a good reminder that lists aren't everything, sometimes the way a team plays covers for a lack of depth or top end talent. Sydney have missed finals for 1 year in the last 20 or something, that's not just one thing they get right. They must get things right across the board from recruiting to development to game plan and buy in.

I reckon Richo has a good modern game plan and incredible buy in, but somewhere else we are lagging, it's probably a symptom of the Lyon years where we lost the few AFL standard kids we bought in and toped up with role players but we need to start getting talent in. Watters then moved on players and did a similar list crushing thing.

 

[StCicatriz]

Acres is more what beej was for us than what Fyfe was and is now to freo or what Lenny or dal was.

I think acres will take time like beej did and like beej we won't know until much later what his position will be

Beej was tried on ball, in key positions, on the wing etc. He was a modern day utility. I feel acres will be similar and will play a variety of roles until he and the side finds its feet. I'm not entirely sold on him but hes not the issue right now

Compare the beej and acres stats and they're very close at the same age