Welcome 2018 draft pick 52: Welcome to Hawthorn Jacob Koschitzke

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[Snoref]

If richmond don't cough up something good, maybe we should be trying to convince him to stay or is that too late by offering close or same deal as Richmond? We don't have many forwards atm.

If he doesn't want to renegotiate then he had to think about PSD and north...if that's better for him than us..

 

[Howe Amazing]

Kosi was there last night

 

[Turly]

This is really poor list management imo.

Why?

Kosi is never injured, he's hitting his prime, he hits the pack hard, tackles well and can take a grab, so lets look at some facts at why he's been up and down.

Facts:
1. When developing those curial first 2 years we had the worse game plan in the league.
2. We had the following absolute first class midfields kicking to him as young leading forward - T.Mitchel, O'Mearea, Worpel, Sheils, - what a gift as a forward that is. Not to mention Frostball, and headless chook CJ. You get the picture if you just have a think about it.
3. Our cupboard is bear for fit strong coming of age forwards who can lead and mark, not to mention Lewis plays better when he's in the side.

In other words he's done far better then my fellow Hawthorn supporters give him credit for if they'd stop and think.

More reasons why this is bad list management:
1 We just gave Fin 2yrs for what? because of his father (yes get upset if you must but look at the facts he's another mid that can't kick and is just a very simple role player).
2.We just gave 2yrs to Serong (don't get me wrong I like this move, but if we've got 2yrs for Serong then we should have had at least 2yrs for Kosi with a pay raise)
3.If we are to get anywhere we need a midfield that not only wins the ball but can kick it to advantage, not the sky ball sideways crap of the past 4yrs. If this happens Kosi's output as a leading forward would improve out of sight esp at his age and he's never injured. You can only lead so many times at the ball carrier and be totally missed before you have a gut full of it. Blame the midfield not the poor bloke on the end of the s**t game plan and hack kicks trying to develop from 18yrs of age till now

Taking all this into account the VALUE on this forum people are placing on Kosi as a trade, compared to what they'll offer for their new favs, is a out and out joke.

Sam Mitchel should have sat down with Kosi and said; Mate we're trying to get class into the middle to hit you on the chest so hang in there with us as your first 4yrs were with the worse midfield we've ever had and a utterly s**t game plan, but we're trying to fix it, not whatever he said.

Mitchel of all people should have known the difference between having Hodge, Burgs, Lewis, Hill and himself kicking to Buddy, Roughy and Gunston as young KPF's compared to having O'Merea, T.Mitchel Sheils and Worpel kicking to Kosi as a lone hand most the time.

This is a classic Hawthorn mistake of throwing out a key piece of the puzzle instead of building around it at exactly the wrong the time.

Rookie coach mistake this one and someone needs to tell Sam it's a mistake that he's making.

Thanks Kosi. I wish you all the best mate.

 

[Stuckinarut]

Thanks Kosi. I wish you all the best mate.

Thanks mate, nothing like being a fit heathy with the world at my feet 23yr old, instead of a old dude with a dodgey back, bunged hip and non stop traveling around the globe - oh wait, now I'm confused. The bad back and bung hip to get to where I am = worth it.

I agree with good luck to Kosi whatever happens.

 

[DannyJ]

This is really poor list management imo.

Why?

Kosi is never injured, he's hitting his prime, he hits the pack hard, tackles well and can take a grab, so lets look at some facts at why he's been up and down.

Facts:
1. When developing those curial first 2 years we had the worse game plan in the league.
2. We had the following absolute first class midfields kicking to him as young leading forward - T.Mitchel, O'Mearea, Worpel, Sheils, - what a gift as a forward that is. Not to mention Frostball, and headless chook CJ. You get the picture if you just have a think about it.
3. Our cupboard is bear for fit strong coming of age forwards who can lead and mark, not to mention Lewis plays better when he's in the side.

In other words he's done far better then my fellow Hawthorn supporters give him credit for if they'd stop and think.

More reasons why this is bad list management:
1 We just gave Fin 2yrs for what? because of his father (yes get upset if you must but look at the facts he's another mid that can't kick and is just a very simple role player).
2.We just gave 2yrs to Serong (don't get me wrong I like this move, but if we've got 2yrs for Serong then we should have had at least 2yrs for Kosi with a pay raise)
3.If we are to get anywhere we need a midfield that not only wins the ball but can kick it to advantage, not the sky ball sideways crap of the past 4yrs. If this happens Kosi's output as a leading forward would improve out of sight esp at his age and he's never injured. You can only lead so many times at the ball carrier and be totally missed before you have a gut full of it. Blame the midfield not the poor bloke on the end of the s**t game plan and hack kicks trying to develop from 18yrs of age till now

Taking all this into account the VALUE on this forum people are placing on Kosi as a trade, compared to what they'll offer for their new favs, is a out and out joke.

Sam Mitchel should have sat down with Kosi and said; Mate we're trying to get class into the middle to hit you on the chest so hang in there with us as your first 4yrs were with the worse midfield we've ever had and a utterly s**t game plan, but we're trying to fix it, not whatever he said.

Mitchel of all people should have known the difference between having Hodge, Burgs, Lewis, Hill and himself kicking to Buddy, Roughy and Gunston as young KPF's compared to having O'Merea, T.Mitchel Sheils and Worpel kicking to Kosi as a lone hand most the time.

This is a classic Hawthorn mistake of throwing out a key piece of the puzzle instead of building around it at exactly the wrong the time.

Rookie coach mistake this one and someone needs to tell Sam it's a mistake that he's making.

Kozzie is an ordinary player- lets be real. If we are building around him, we aren't going to be playing in any games of consequence.

Mitchell knows this.

Sent from my SM-S911B using Tapatalk

 

[Stuckinarut]

Kozzie is an ordinary player- lets be real. If we are building around him, we aren't going to be playing in any games of consequence.

Mitchell knows this.

Sent from my SM-S911B using Tapatalk

I disagree for multiple reasons.

I will ask what's so much better about Chol then Kosi ? Why not both if Chol is thrown out with the bathwater ?

Even at 23yrs old, from memory, people were still calling for Roughie to CHB.

Breust likes it when Kosi is in the side - many moving parts here. Another year into the smalls at Kosi and Lewis's feet - etc etc

Better midfield delivery, as the group clicks more, does that mean the chance that Kosi improves are stacked in our favour ?

Shoemakers and Spanger won flags mate as "role" players.

Coaches call, seems more like a personality conflict then looking at team balance from 10,000ft - if that's the case then yes it'd be hard to reconcile but that does not mean he's only worth a meaningless pick.

Or Kosi is sick of the role he's been asked to play.

People are to simplistic in their analysis when a player asks to leave, so I am not going to bother arguing with "group think". Going against "group think" has worked very well in my life, it worked for Clarko with Dew, Gisbon, and Hale, but it's not suited to blog sites in most case.

 

[H00t]

I disagree for multiple reasons.

I will ask what's so much better about Chol then Kosi ? Why not both if Chol is thrown out with the bathwater ?

Even at 23yrs old, from memory, people were still calling for Roughie to CHB.

Breust likes it when Kosi is in the side - many moving parts here. Another year into the smalls at Kosi and Lewis's feet - etc etc

Better midfield delivery, as the group clicks more, does that mean the chance that Kosi improves are stacked in our favour ?

Shoemakers and Spanger won flags mate as "role" players.

Coaches call, seems more like a personality conflict then looking at team balance from 10,000ft - if that's the case then yes it'd be hard to reconcile but that does not mean he's only worth a meaningless pick.

Or Kosi is sick of the role he's been asked to play.

People are to simplistic in their analysis when a player asks to leave, so I am not going to bother arguing with "group think". Going against "group think" has worked very well in my life, it worked for Clarko with Dew, Gisbon, and Hale, but it's not suited to blog sites in most case.

Chol isn’t a long term answer either but we need someone and Kosi has chosen to leave.

At this point Kosi has shown he’s a role player at best and it’s no great loss to lose him.

I wish him all the best at the tigers.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Koschitske was lucky not to be a DFA if not for a few better outings late in the season.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

On the flip side people will give half the club away for Chol who has been no better then Kosi and is 3yrs older and already failed at 1 club and is disliked enough by the new coach to be moved on immediately.

name them

 

[Stuckinarut]

Chol isn’t a long term answer either but we need someone and Kosi has chosen to leave.

At this point Kosi has shown he’s a role player at best and it’s no great loss to lose him.

I wish him all the best at the tigers.

How do you know that Lewis, Kosi, and Chol can't take us to flag when you look at what the pies just won a flag with?

You just bagged a player whose tried his arse off by saying "it's no great loss to lose him". But then tried to hide your personal feelings about him with the meaningless "I wish him well at the tigers" - my answer **** richmond, you want him you pay up.

Koschitske was lucky not to be a DFA if not for a few better outings late in the season.

If that's the case what is DGB still doing on the list. If I was on DBG I'd rub him all day with "mate try getting/winning the ball before being the games biggest tough guy as it makes you look totally idiotic".

This smacks of personal between Kosi and the coach.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

This smacks of personal between Kosi and the coach.

No, it smacks of an inconsistent forward who got a second chance after failing as a defender.

 

[H00t]

How do you know that Lewis, Kosi, and Chol can't take us to flag when you look at what the pies just won a flag with?

You just bagged a player whose tried his arse off by saying "it's no great loss to lose him". But then tried to hide your personal feelings about him with the meaningless "I wish him well at the tigers" - my answer * richmond, you want him you pay up.

Those three as a group provide little defensive pressure and outside of Lewis the other 2 only provide structure. Easily replaceable by pretty much any tall in the league.

Lots of players try their arse off. Most don’t even get drafted. It’s a shame but Kosi hasn’t shown that he’s good enough to move the needle for us.

I have no ill will towards Kosi, I just don’t rate his footballing ability.

 

[Stuckinarut]

No, it smacks of an inconsistent forward who got a second chance after failing as a defender.

Have any of our forwards being "consistent" while we changed from the worse midfield to one that's building?

Even Gunston couldn't get a kick during this period, let alone a young kid.

All our forwards have struggled, it's why we lose, because we are not kicking more goals then the opp (apart from Breust of course who is an out and out champ, a true great of the game).

We did the same with Shoe and he was in a far better side.

But if Kosi "got it" towards the end of the season why would you move on in the hope you can find someone better at this time.

Give him the contract he wants and if he doesn't improve have we really truly lost out Vs the upside as the mids improve and the team overall improves ? Surely improvement across the board means his will as well. Look at Conor Nash as a prefect example.

Anyways I'm over trying to talk up his value rather than degrade it because **** richmond.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Have any of our forwards being "consistent" while we changed from the worse midfield to one that's building?

Even Gunston couldn't get a kick during this period, let alone a young kid.

All our forwards have struggled, it's why we lose, because we are not kicking more goals then the opp (apart from Breust of course who is an out and out champ, a true great of the game).

We did the same with Shoe and he was in a far better side.

But if Kosi "got it" towards the end of the season why would you move on in the hope you can find someone better at this time.

Give him the contract he wants and if he doesn't improve have we really truly lost out Vs the upside as the mids improve and the team overall improves ? Surely improvement across the board means his will as well. Look at Conor Nash as a prefect example.

Anyways I'm over trying to talk up his value rather than degrade it because * richmond

Gunston couldn’t get a kick? What rubbish.

Kosi got a second chance as a forward, but he lacks forward craft and nous.

 

[Iceman!]

How do you know that Lewis, Kosi, and Chol can't take us to flag when you look at what the pies just won a flag with?

You just bagged a player whose tried his arse off by saying "it's no great loss to lose him". But then tried to hide your personal feelings about him with the meaningless "I wish him well at the tigers" - my answer * richmond, you want him you pay up.

If that's the case what is DGB still doing on the list. If I was on DBG I'd rub him all day with "mate try getting/winning the ball before being the games biggest tough guy as it makes you look totally idiotic".

This smacks of personal between Kosi and the coach.

Bro outside of random comparisons that are not at all comparable (Roughead lol) what makes you think he is going to make it as anything more than a role player at best?

He is just incredibly limited, poor hands, poor set shot with no real elite traits.

Outside of being kinda young what makes you think he is any better than the other 20-30 fringe key position players on lists around the league?

 

[Iceman!]

Have any of our forwards being "consistent" while we changed from the worse midfield to one that's building?

Even Gunston couldn't get a kick during this period, let alone a young kid.

All our forwards have struggled, it's why we lose, because we are not kicking more goals then the opp (apart from Breust of course who is an out and out champ, a true great of the game).

We did the same with Shoe and he was in a far better side.

But if Kosi "got it" towards the end of the season why would you move on in the hope you can find someone better at this time.

Give him the contract he wants and if he doesn't improve have we really truly lost out Vs the upside as the mids improve and the team overall improves ? Surely improvement across the board means his will as well. Look at Conor Nash as a prefect example.

Anyways I'm over trying to talk up his value rather than degrade it because * richmond.

Mitchell Lewis has average close to 2 and a half goals a season as a developing tall

Gunston who 'hasn't been able to get a kick' averaged 2 goals a game in his last 2 years at the club.

We offered him a contract with a chance to prove it, he got a better one from Richmond. Good luck to him.

 

[Stuckinarut]

You're right he's not worth a single pick, despite playing here there and everywhere, with the worse midfield while developing, even though he avgs a goal a game, a year of that with Mitch Lewis was out for a year with a knee, and as soon as he's back Kosi in the pocket by himself is missed because Lewis is a beacon top of the square.

Lets just give him away. We don't want players that are never injured, hit the ball hard, just because they're not Jason Dunstal.

Geezis richmond fans know he's worth more than Hawthorn supporters.

News flash richmond don't have 1st pick in PSD so should be made to pay, if they can't we keep him.

 

[Iceman!]

You're right he's not worth a single pick, despite playing here there and everywhere, with the worse midfield while developing, even though he avgs a goal a game, a year of that with Mitch Lewis was out for a year with a knee, and as soon as he's back Kosi in the pocket by himself is missed because Lewis is a beacon top of the square.

Lets just give him away. We don't want players that are never injured, hit the ball hard, just because they're not Jason Dunstal.

Geezis richmond fans know he's worth more than Hawthorn supporters.

News flash richmond don't have 1st pick in PSD so should be made to pay, if they can't we keep him.

Stop with the straw man holy shit... Everything in that post is wrong.

No one expects him to be Dunstall but how about a key forward that can consistently hit the scoreboard and be an Ariel threat?

'despite playing here there and everywhere' is just wrong, his role at AFL level has been pretty consistent.

No one is saying give him away, but a player of his quality and OOC is not going to net a great return

Lastly keeping him isn't an option because he wants to leave, we are not kicking him it. He wants to go, that is his decision.

 

[Stuckinarut]

Lastly keeping him isn't an option because he wants to leave, we are not kicking him it. He wants to go, that is his decision.

Change his decision, by approaching it differently, has been my point from the start, since we will not do better while McCabe and Dear or whoever else we grab develop.

Also anyone who comes back with the "strawman" crap has lost any objectively and is sitting on a self made glass roof top thinking the mob is there saviour so they're safe to speak on their behalf hoping for likes. Good luck with it.

 

[Iceman!]

Change his decision, by approaching it differently, has been my point from the start, since we will not do better while McCabe and Dear or whoever else we grab develop.

Also anyone who comes back with the "strawman" crap has lost any objectively and is sitting on a self made glass roof top thinking the mob is there saviour so they're safe to speak on their behalf hoping for likes. Good luck with it.

Give it a rest

'Lets just give him away. We don't want players that are never injured, hit the ball hard, just because they're not Jason Dunstal.' Is a ****ing strawman.

Ah yeah just approach it differently, why doesn't every club do that with any player that wants out.

We have Lewis, we are bringing in Chol, we already have Ramsden, Ryan, DGB on the list. Only so many you can carry.

That gives us two best 22 talls and 3 developing talls.

 

[Stuckinarut]

Ramsden has shown nothing yet.

Chol hasn't shown anymore than Kosi and is 3 years older.

DGB = give me a break.

Ryan 2 yrs older and can't chase to save himself - if he doesn't mark it it goes straight the other way.

Yeah mate great depth Vs a fit quick tall.

You're making yourself look foolish.

 

[Yardie]

Ramsden has shown nothing yet.

Chol hasn't shown anymore than Kosi and is 3 years older.

DGB = give me a break.

Ryan 2 yrs older and can't chase to save himself - if he doesn't mark it it goes straight the other way.

Yeah mate great depth Vs a fit quick tall.

You're making yourself look foolish.

Kosi did well as the second ruck/forward not as a forward. He played his better games at the end when we had to two other tall forwards in the team. Personally wanted him to stay to develop in that role. But if he wants to be just be a forward then IMO he will struggle at Richmond.

Chol talk by the club started after Kosi decided to leave so they see him as a replacement. And Chol kicked 44 in a year, that's pretty good.

 

[Iceman!]

Ramsden has shown nothing yet.

Chol hasn't shown anymore than Kosi and is 3 years older.

DGB = give me a break.

Ryan 2 yrs older and can't chase to save himself - if he doesn't mark it it goes straight the other way.

Yeah mate great depth Vs a fit quick tall.

You're making yourself look foolish.

You are crying like a child because we are losing a key forward that was held goalless in half his games this year

Chol is not great but hasn't shown anymore than Kosi? Really? Flat out wrong.

The rest have not had even half the opportunities of Kosi, they may or may not make it but Kosi is not going to be the answer long term so the melt is nothing short of embarrassing.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Kosi is completely average. End of story.

 

[SammyC]

Kosi will get us pick upgrade / late pick that we will use for points. For a guy we offered a 1 year deal very late in the piece that is fair and reasonable.

He might become an afl player but I would stake everything i have that he never kicks 50 in a season, and most of what I have that he’ll never kick 40.