List Mgmt. 2018 St Kilda Trade Thread Part 2

[gringo2011]

Paddy is a very similar player to Tom McDonald... who cut Geelong up last night.

It’s been said ad nauseum but games experience, better midfield, etc.

The talent is there but personally I think Paddy needs someone in his face demanding he become manic at the Footy.

McDonald has turned himself into one of the league’s best forwards through hard work & playing with unbelievable intensity. Paddy has been allowed to just cruise along.


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Seems to have pretty decent closing speed when he plays back though. I'm not sure Paddy will ever have that frame and speed. I think their midfield really helps too. They just have so many that can hurt you that forwards will get off the chain. Scarily they have Lever and Hogan still to come back. They have a good list these days.

 

[gringo2011]

Look at all 4 quarters he was crap.

Looked like he offered less than Weller.

 

[gringo2011]

Man reading the wce boards opinion on longer was eye opening. Even they can see it. Good at the tap but that's where it stops.

Longer is a pretender. Hickey a never was.

Our ruck stocks are shit. We need to get better at development.

Side note longer will never make it because he's lazy.

I reckon young rucks can surprise, heaps have been ordinary and come good, Dawson Simpson was lemon for years, my Melbourne mates used to bag Stefan Martin constantly. Sometimes it takes years to get it together, longer has the size at least. I thought Hickey was pretty good this year. If you can't win a heap of hit outs, at least et some ball around the ground. He did that better than some of our mids.

I'd persist with them unless someone amazing falls in our laps or a good trade for Longer ca be arranged. Losing Hickey with out an upgrade would actually be counter productive.

 

[plugger66]

Paddy is a very similar player to Tom McDonald... who cut Geelong up last night.

It’s been said ad nauseum but games experience, better midfield, etc.

The talent is there but personally I think Paddy needs someone in his face demanding he become manic at the Footy.

McDonald has turned himself into one of the league’s best forwards through hard work & playing with unbelievable intensity. Paddy has been allowed to just cruise along.


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Sorry but paddy is nothing like McDonald. He is one of Melbourne fittest players and has great second and third efforts. He has always had that. Paddy has no second effort. Also McDonald is a great kick for goal. Paddy is nearly a poor kick for goal.

 

[plugger66]

I reckon young rucks can surprise, heaps have been ordinary and come good, Dawson Simpson was lemon for years, my Melbourne mates used to bag Stefan Martin constantly. Sometimes it takes years to get it together, longer has the size at least. I thought Hickey was pretty good this year. If you can't win a heap of hit outs, at least et some ball around the ground. He did that better than some of our mids.

I'd persist with them unless someone amazing falls in our laps or a good trade for Longer ca be arranged. Losing Hickey with out an upgrade would actually be counter productive.

If we don’t get rid of one ruck we are crazy. Like key backs the second ruckman is easy to get from another club. Trade or delist longer. Might get a better pick for a delist than trade. At least pierce tgen comes back to sandy where he should be.

 

[gringo2011]

Menzal looks a fine pick up for today’s footy. Just got rid of two not suited to today’s game so let’s get another along with paddy. We must have a time machine at our club. Let’s go back to 1997.

He was literally awful, he doesn't chase and ironically that was the only thing I noticed him doing that was positive...and that was only once. He used to convert every chance but he didn't even do that last night. I think he's one of those payers that recently tore us to shreds so we want him.

 

[gringo2011]

Sorry but paddy is nothing like McDonald. He is one of Melbourne fittest players and has great second and third efforts. He has always had that. Paddy has no second effort. Also McDonald is a great kick for goal. Paddy is nearly a poor kick for goal.

Mc Donald is like a fitter Mc Govern to me. His hands are incredible. Stewie like.

 

[plugger66]

He was literally awful, he doesn't chase and ironically that was the only thing I noticed him doing that was positive...and that was only once. He used to convert every chance but he didn't even do that last night. I think he's one of those payers that recently tore us to shreds so we want him.

Gamble all over again

 

[Darkhour]

I don't actually think the game plan is a huge issue. When we play it well it works well. What we need to get it to the next level is some elite game breakers. We all love Gresh because he is like what other clubs have. Essendon play similar fast overlap running footy but their finishing is much better. They had a bad year but will bounce back hard in 2019. Richmond do it too but again they have a better top end. Collingwood again, run and gun through handball. Richo was ahead of the game for a couple of years in style but the cattle aren't there.

It means we are competitive despite not having great skills and probably why we over achieved with what we had. If we get a player in the draft that hits the ground running like Stephenson and can find some state league mature players we can bridge the gap between the teams from 8 to 15. We have a solid core of GOPs and that's a good bedrock, we just need some game breakers now. Essendon got guys like Fantasia (pick 55) and Mc Donald-Tippunwuti(25 in the rookie draft) super cheap, if we can find a couple of those things can improve quickly.

Nice post gringo!

 

[Keg on legs]

You dont win 23 games in 2 years if you are completely shot as a list.

Yes, we have holes and a lot of our young talent stagnated this year but it's hard to tell from outside the club whether this is due to a lack of development, lost confidence, shit coaching or a combination of all of the above.

The media love to sink the boots into the "same old shit st kilda" and it's easy for us to fall for that narrative. For sure there are issues that need fixing but we can never underestimate how big a loss robbo and bruce were this year. They are so important to structure and in robbo's case- on field leadership

For the most urgent thing we need to address is a stand alone 2s team ASAP. There's no coincidence to me that the best vic teams have their own 2s teams. If a players gets injured they just bring in another foot soldier who is drilled in game style and method. Nothing changes so they step straight in and contribute.

For example - We play Lonie in the guts in the 2s and he gets 30 then we promote him based on that and sit him as a fwd pocket in a team with different structures and methods. Hardly surprising he struggles.

 

[luca77]

Mc Donald is like a fitter Mc Govern to me. His hands are incredible. Stewie like.

Wash your mouth out.

 

[luca77]

I don't actually think the game plan is a huge issue. When we play it well it works well. What we need to get it to the next level is some elite game breakers. We all love Gresh because he is like what other clubs have. Essendon play similar fast overlap running footy but their finishing is much better. They had a bad year but will bounce back hard in 2019. Richmond do it too but again they have a better top end. Collingwood again, run and gun through handball. Richo was ahead of the game for a couple of years in style but the cattle aren't there.

It means we are competitive despite not having great skills and probably why we over achieved with what we had. If we get a player in the draft that hits the ground running like Stephenson and can find some state league mature players we can bridge the gap between the teams from 8 to 15. We have a solid core of GOPs and that's a good bedrock, we just need some game breakers now. Essendon got guys like Fantasia (pick 55) and Mc Donald-Tippunwuti(25 in the rookie draft) super cheap, if we can find a couple of those things can improve quickly.

Nah. It's a coaches job to come up with a game plan that gives the current team the best chance of winning. A good gameplan for a different team is a crap gameplan. And besides, the fast play we had when Richo came in died with Jake and Brown coming in down back. Haven't had it since.

 

[Sir Skid]

You dont win 23 games in 2 years if you are completely shot as a list.

Yes, we have holes and a lot of our young talent stagnated this year but it's hard to tell from outside the club whether this is due to a lack of development, lost confidence, shit coaching or a combination of all of the above.

The media love to sink the boots into the "same old shit st kilda" and it's easy for us to fall for that narrative. For sure there are issues that need fixing but we can never underestimate how big a loss robbo and bruce were this year. They are so important to structure and in robbo's case- on field leadership

For the most urgent thing we need to address is a stand alone 2s team ASAP. There's no coincidence to me that the best vic teams have their own 2s teams. If a players gets injured they just bring in another foot soldier who is drilled in game style and method. Nothing changes so they step straight in and contribute.

For example - We play Lonie in the guts in the 2s and he gets 30 then we promote him based on that and sit him as a fwd pocket in a team with different structures and methods. Hardly surprising he struggles.

Well ballanced post.

#kegs4mod

 

[Keg on legs]

Well ballanced post.

#kegs4mod

Lol


#getfeckedskid

 

[SAIINT]

You dont win 23 games in 2 years if you are completely shot as a list.

Yes, we have holes and a lot of our young talent stagnated this year but it's hard to tell from outside the club whether this is due to a lack of development, lost confidence, shit coaching or a combination of all of the above.

The media love to sink the boots into the "same old shit st kilda" and it's easy for us to fall for that narrative. For sure there are issues that need fixing but we can never underestimate how big a loss robbo and bruce were this year. They are so important to structure and in robbo's case- on field leadership

For the most urgent thing we need to address is a stand alone 2s team ASAP. There's no coincidence to me that the best vic teams have their own 2s teams. If a players gets injured they just bring in another foot soldier who is drilled in game style and method. Nothing changes so they step straight in and contribute.

For example - We play Lonie in the guts in the 2s and he gets 30 then we promote him based on that and sit him as a fwd pocket in a team with different structures and methods. Hardly surprising he struggles.

Couldn’t agree more re Lonie played out of position in 2s. The relationship with sandy is awkward, they don’t really want us, we don’t really want them. Hopefully Basset sorts it out in the next year or so, although it’s difficult with our enormous pile of debt.

 

[lewdogs]

Gamble all over again

I still get nightmares about Ryan Gamble. One of the worst recruits of all time.

 

[STK2020]

Paddy is a very similar player to Tom McDonald... who cut Geelong up last night.

It’s been said ad nauseum but games experience, better midfield, etc.

The talent is there but personally I think Paddy needs someone in his face demanding he become manic at the Footy.

McDonald has turned himself into one of the league’s best forwards through hard work & playing with unbelievable intensity. Paddy has been allowed to just cruise along.


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Tom McDonald is more versatile , miles ahead in class.

Paddy runs 10 meters before getting dizzy , poor kid attacks the contest and his skull is an egg shell.
His kicking isn’t great for a Full Forward .
He has a long way back the kid , I fear for him.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Paddy runs 10 meters before getting dizzy , poor kid attacks the contest and his skull is an egg shell..

Not saying he hasn't had problems by any means, but his head looked much better with the hat on in the 2nd half.

And those saying flick him and play Battle, just remember that kid is starting to rack up a few head knocks himself. And he'll probably continue to do so with his aggressive style.

 

[STK2020]

Not saying he hasn't had problems by any means, but his head looked much better with the hat on in the 2nd half.

And those saying flick him and play Battle, just remember that kid is starting to rack up a few head knocks himself. And he'll probably continue to do so with his aggressive style.

Paddy will start behind Bruce ,Marshall, Battle and most likely Menzel.
TBH it mite be a good thing to let him dominate games for Sandy, he would probably crack the shits but we need to find another 30 goals from a forward in 2019 to be competitive, unfortunately I’ve lost confidence in him but hopefully he comes out early and smashes games. Good luck to the kid.

 

[Stewart66]

Our group is young and will grow together just like Melbournes has. This is a painful forum these days, so negative.

Agree.

Funny 6 weeks ago Melbourne supporters were saying Weideman was a complete dud,
this morning after one good game , they are talking trade Hogan .
Geelong supporters whinging about playing in 12 out the last 13 years finals, give me a
break .

Clarkson comments are spot on clubs that have a system be that on field /off field are
more consistent, that is the challenge .

 

[LeonardHayes87]

I still get nightmares about Ryan Gamble. One of the worst recruits of all time.

Adam Pattison and Dean Polo say hi

 

[STK2020]

Just running my blood shot eyes over stats for the year.
The club appears to be targeting players for the correct defective areas.
On Average for all teams
Scoring Accuracy -4%. Menzel ( below )
Goals -5 goals per game on rank 1.
Contested Possession -9 Hanneberry
Clearances - 4 Hanneberry
Rebound 50. -1
Interception -3
Tackles -5. Hanneberry again
Hit outs. -9 Lycett

Hanneberry, Menzel , Lycett and hopefully Rankine tick off a few boxes of being competitive in 2019.
Notable returns in those areas of concern .....
Bruce , Roberton, Long ( more games ), Austin ( more games )
Notable development in above areas ....
Clark , Coffield, Billings ( mid more ) , Acres ( mid more )

Just my thoughts .

 

[Sir Skid]

Lol


#getfeckedskid

Haha.

#youravviesonmeth

 

[Hayes4PM]

I still get nightmares about Ryan Gamble. One of the worst recruits of all time.

Adam Pattison and Dean Polo say hi

This makes me feel better about our current situation

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Sorry but paddy is nothing like McDonald. He is one of Melbourne fittest players and has great second and third efforts. He has always had that. Paddy has no second effort. Also McDonald is a great kick for goal. Paddy is nearly a poor kick for goal.

Yep, T Mac has a massive tank. That alone makes him very different to Paddy, besides the the things you mentioned.