List Mgmt. 2018 St Kilda Trade Thread Part 2

[Cantteachthat]

one game doenst make a player .... he has so far only had that one game where he looked any good previous to that he hasnt been even close to it ... i hope for his and ours it is a pivotal moment to change the direction of his career but until its backed up its still a one off for me and not the thing we should be pinning our hopes on

But remember that one game against Richmond....
Oh yeah, maybe not a good idea to base things on one game.

 

[VDS66]

It is starting to annoy me how posters are wanting us to rucks like Lycett and Roughead, after Lew Peirce's game at the weekend.
And an indictment on Richardson for him to say he had not seen him play this year.

Rix played a great game once... once.

 

[Cantteachthat]

For mine Steven and Ross are outside players - 63 and 67% of their touches are uncontested. I agree that Steele and Dunstan are inside types, but we will pretty much be backing development of our midfield (that has been proven to be poor). Plus hanners is not a free agent, and will cost a decent chunk in a trade. Gaff, wallis, menzel are quality players that come free of charge which i feel is always underestimated.

Steele I think has shown plenty of late and one of the few that look to be progressing, helps he's finally being played in the midfield I guess!
Ross and Steven need to change that a bit I reckon, I wonder if those % are higher due to who they are playing with? What's their history do you know? Both can be balanced, but I'd prefer to see them a little more contested than they are, but I do wonder if that more out of necessity than anything.

Wallis a free agent? Agree, it does add some value to them by not having to give something up, but if we get him, we need some serious changes in personal. Can't add him and keep the current bunch, similar issue then as we had at the start of the year when Koby was fit, too many of the same style.
Happy to get Menzel and 2 years provided we have plenty of cap space is of no concern to me. No trade there makes that very attractive for mine. Gaff likewise but seems unlikely and even Lycett as a free agent has appeal for that reason, free agent.

 

[Greg1853]

It is starting to annoy me how posters are wanting us to rucks like Lycett and Roughead, after Lew Peirce's game at the weekend.
And an indictment on Richardson for him to say he had not seen him play this year.

If we are actually interested in Lycett I believe it will be at the expense of both Hickey and Longer, with Pierce being retained, so I think the interest in Lycett may be to Pierce's benefit. Just a guess, but every side is going to want at least 2 acceptable full-time ruckmen on their list as a bare minimum.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Personally in his current shape I don't see much difference between Hannebery and Armitage... Yet this forum wants Armitage out cause he's cooked... only to bring in Hannebery (who most think is cooked).

How about spending additional money re-negotiating longer term contracts of young players we want to keep so we don't end up losing them when we need them most.

From other clubs I'd be more interested in the Jack Martin/Aaron Hall type of players as they offer a dynamic that our side lacks... and why do I hear Hawthorn chasing Shiel this year, he's someone worth sacrificing our draft position on.

At the end of the day the draft represents hope and the future and that's the only thing we have... why trade it away for someone who peaked in the past?
This idea has brought in a new sense of sorrow when I though I didn't care anymore.

Is 'cooked' this year's 'the game as passed him by'?

I find it very amusing that Hannebery is considered done & dusted at 27/28 while people still suggest Hall as a great option despite him being the same age and has missed large chunks of every season due to injury.

 

[VDS66]

If we are actually interested in Lycett I believe it will be at the expense of both Hickey and Longer, with Pierce being retained, so I think the interest in Lycett may be to Pierce's benefit. Just a guess, but every side is going to want at least 2 acceptable full-time ruckmen on their list as a bare minimum.

Speaks volumes that WCE are looking at roughead as a replacement for Lycett, but none of Hickey or Longer enter the equation.

 

[Spaceship7]

In borderbarry 's defence Lewey arguably beat Tim English and Braydon Preuss in the VFL before coming in and beating Belchambers. Not bad at all for a developing ruckman

(hitouts, touches, marks, goals)

Pierce (54, 14, 3, 0) V english (33, 9, 6, 2)
Pierce (39, 14, 4, 1) V Preuss (32, 17, 5, 1)
Pierce (27, 18, 5, 0) V Belly (25, 13, 3, 0)

 

[VDS66]

Is 'cooked' this year's 'the game as passed him by'?

I find it very amusing that Hannebery is considered done & dusted at 27/28 while people still suggest Hall as a great option despite him being the same age and has missed large chunks of every season due to injury.

Roo was cooked for the last 8 years of his career...

 

[The Enemy Within]

If we are actually interested in Lycett I believe it will be at the expense of both Hickey and Longer, with Pierce being retained, so I think the interest in Lycett may be to Pierce's benefit. Just a guess, but every side is going to want at least 2 acceptable full-time ruckmen on their list as a bare minimum.

Also have Marshall on the list.

 

[Coconut_twirl]

The HS are reporting St .Kilda might give their first pick for Hennerbry ? This will annoy me, I want top end talent from this supposedly super draft.

 

[VDS66]

let's see how Lewis acquits himself against big boy and Goldy...

 

[Spaceship7]

Steele I think has shown plenty of late and one of the few that look to be progressing, helps he's finally being played in the midfield I guess!
Ross and Steven need to change that a bit I reckon, I wonder if those % are higher due to who they are playing with? What's their history do you know? Both can be balanced, but I'd prefer to see them a little more contested than they are, but I do wonder if that more out of necessity than anything.

Wallis a free agent? Agree, it does add some value to them by not having to give something up, but if we get him, we need some serious changes in personal. Can't add him and keep the current bunch, similar issue then as we had at the start of the year when Koby was fit, too many of the same style.
Happy to get Menzel and 2 years provided we have plenty of cap space is of no concern to me. No trade there makes that very attractive for mine. Gaff likewise but seems unlikely and even Lycett as a free agent has appeal for that reason, free agent.

I'm one of Steele's biggest fans. He can be Sloane-esque, tackling beast. I am backing him in to become something but can't risk everything on him being a player to carry the whole load. Can Dunstan or Acres become a contested beast along with him? Not so sure.

Not too sure the % on who they are playing with but ross has always been highly outside and Jack went up to about a 41-42% CP rate around 2016 but never a mostly contested player either.

 

[The Punter]

On the ruckman issue... Longer can get us back into the second round. That would be one out. Hickey is under contract, won't attract much interest and doesn't want to leave Victoria. He's a satisfactory back up option. Let's see what Pierce does the remaining two weeks against McEvoy first up returning from injury and a rejuvenated Todd Goldstein, but on Friday's display he should get another year. Marshall is a good fill in the pieces option who can ruck.

That means we still need to bring a ruckman in. I just don't think we can bring anyone in who immediately commands the first ruck position, so I would prefer to see us draft one later in the draft.

As I said earlier, interested in Hannebury as long as we keep that 1st pick which will be top 5. We have 2 top five picks on the list. We need more.

Not less. On Saturday David King was advocating North Melbourne's pick 10 (approximately) for Billings. Since coming back into the side Billings is averaging 24.63 disposals per game, 0.75 goals per game, 1.25 goal assists per game, and 5.75 inside 50s per game. In 2017 he was one of only 3 players in the league to average 23 disposals and 1 goal per game and play 22 games. The other two were Patrick Dangerfield and Dustin Martin. He turns 23 on Saturday.

For a team devoid of elite talent, why in the world would we want to remove that talent for an unknown quantity? It is insanity, unless you realise that King wants his old club to win a flag, then it makes perfect sense. It makes more sense if you think there are many people who want us back on the bottom where we belong.

Menzel makes sense for a team scoring less than they did in 2015. You add Menzel, and with a fit team where the leadership group is made up entirely of players who will play every week on form, and then you get a team that looks like this:

Webster Brown McKenzie
Roberton Carlisle Savage
Billings Steele Sinclair
Long Battle Membrey
Gresham Bruce Menzel
Pierce Ross Steven
Acres Coffield Clark Freeman

Suddenly guys are playing in their best positions. Everyone in the backline can kick. Billings is around the ball but can swap with Gresham and Long, who had 4 clearances on Friday night and spent a lot of time in the middle of the ground. Long and Battle provide the pressure. We play to our strengths (and probable rule changes) by playing three marking forwards, with Acres as insurance. If you want you can go smaller and play Menzel as a marking forward (with a Clark or a Lonie). Acres plays predominately inside-mid, Freeman (or someone else like Phillips or Newnes) as outside. Coffield and Clark develop. We also add whoever pick 3-5 is. We still have Hickey, Dunstan, Lonie, Geary, Newnes, Armitage, Goddard, Austin, Phillips, White, McCartin, Rice, Clavarino & Paton in reserve.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

let's see how Lewis acquits himself against big boy and Goldy...

tbh he couldn't do any worse than the previous 2 plonkers we've been playing. After the crap the 2 of them have served up all year, i can't see how anyone can down-play Lewey's game.

 

[majortinkle]

For mine Steven and Ross are outside players - 63 and 67% of their touches are uncontested. I agree that Steele and Dunstan are inside types, but we will pretty much be backing development of our midfield (that has been proven to be poor). Plus hanners is not a free agent, and will cost a decent chunk in a trade. Gaff, wallis, menzel are quality players that come free of charge which i feel is always underestimated.

I just don't see how Menzel suits our game plan - we'd be better off taking a punt on a Ronke-type in the draft. Small forwards have tended to drop in the draft.

I'd happily take Wallis or Gaff, but I doubt they're looking at us. North appear to be covering that tier and are better placed (embarrassingly)

Hanneberry works for a future 2nd - maybe a swap of future 1sts and back ourselves to improve next year.

Steele as chief extractor with Dunstan as deputy at Sandy. Ross/Acres/Clark/Draftee/FA spell Steele during games

I'm happy with that - that setup got their hands on it a lot against the Bombers - they just lacked cohesion as a trio so the quick handballs weren't quite coming off and we ended up coughing it up and handing them the clearance. I think that will get cleaned up as they play together more in those roles.

 

[CaptainRisky]

People really need to settle the **** down. Being a Saints supporter is shit enough as it is without everyone jumping at shadows.



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Boo

 

[CaptainRisky]

He definitely played on Nigel for the whole of the first half, and he had 9 at half time. Treated Nigel like a rag doll.

Can't remember him choking anyone against Bulldogs. I was there in 92 when he kicked 15, and he nearly choked out Craig Nettlebeck against the fence. I was right there, as I use to change ends each quarter following Plugger. I could not fathom how he could lose his shit and nearly kill people (literally) when he was having a day out.

Imagine having someone like that in our side today. Well, actually couldn't happen, as he would have received a life ban by Michael Christian by now.

That was a cracking day , i can just hear Bruce screaming 15 , 15 Pluggers kicked 15 , up your ass Buddy

 

[Joffaboy]

Roo was cooked for the last 8 years of his career...

This. Was reading posts that Roo was finished after his off the bone hammy early 2010.

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[Joffaboy]

The HS are reporting St .Kilda might give their first pick for Hennerbry ? This will annoy me, I want top end talent from this supposedly super draft.

Is that like how we have #5 for Carlisle?



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[Longmembrey]

Is this the Buddy deal beginning to bite?

And struggling to fit Lloyd in.

 

[Saint Prod]

We can't be serious even contemplating Hannarbry. Alarm bells must be ringing in our ears - he is slow and past his best. Why do u think Swans r interested in trading him? Maybe they know he is past it and see Stkilda r dumb and desperate enough to do a deal no way - chase elite talent like Gaff and Shiel and if we miss out on them go for free agents who won't cost us anything but money and improve our very poor list who we all overrate. Outside speed and skill a priority and with pick four we should fill that void not picking up Hanners Let's get serious Saints we have waited this long don't waste this pick Go Saints

 

[St Neil]

Demons will most probably do something drastic to get back into the first round - what player would be worth a first round draft pick that they would let go - Hogan or Brayshaw to Fremantle

We should ask for Oliver. Just for shits and giggles.

 

[St Neil]

One way we could get a top ten pick for Hanners (if that's really what would be needed) is to trade our PP and another second round pick (picked up from a trade) for North's pick 10. The points would be slightly higher for North who will use it on Thomas.

Thing is, Sydney will then likely have to use one of their firsts on Blakey, so I can see why they would want to trade up in the draft.



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Stuff them. If we walk away they can deal with the salary cap ramifications.

I read somewhere (can’t remember where) that Saints have offered to absorb all of Hannebery’s salary within our salary cap. They won’t get that deal elsewhere. They take what we can afford and that is not a 1st RDP downgrade either this year or next year.

 

[Premium]

We should ask for Oliver. Just for shits and giggles.

he would be the sort of guy we want

 

[Longmembrey]

Also have Marshall on the list.

And Acres.