List Mgmt. 2018 St Kilda Trade Thread Part 3

[plugger66]

At the end of the day, pretty much this. Especially if an SA club have moved up to pick 3 and grabbed Rankine, and we think there's a significant gap in the ceilings of King and Smith.

To all those saying "who'll kick it to him"; for starters, Steven, Seb, Hannebery, Clark, Steele, Gresh, Billings, Acres, Coffield and co. (the last 5 of whom are still hopefully a long way off what they could be, from a midfield perspective, and ALL of the last 6 were drafted or bid on in the first round of their respective drafts, which suggests they have genuine talent and just need to be developed and coached well), but we also need to remember- as plenty are pointing out- that King's not likely to be really ready to impact for at least a couple of years, so that gives us a couple more years to add that elite midfield talent to get it to him when he is.

So many of the comments seem to be about the hear and now or what they'll do for us next year, but that is so short-sighted, as the draft is generally about what whoever you're picking will do for your club over what you're hoping will be about a 15 year period, not about what they can do for you next year. Unless you're getting a 24yo Tim Kelly type, that's much more what trading and FA are for.

It's not like we're likely to find a Joel Selwood or Chris Judd in the draftwho hit the ground running from year one, so the only ones who are likely to make a significant difference to our midfield in the short term are ones we trade in or get through FA, and I'm sure we'll continue to have that as a huge focus over the next year or two, until we do eventually land us a "big midfield fish" (or at least a bigger one than Hannebery, who will be pretty big himself, if anywhere near full fitness and form).

I feel like we've come to the party a bit late with this mega-offer to Shiel, but if we go this hard, much earlier at our main trade targets next year (like North have this year and last), I think it will give us a much better chance of landing one- especially if we go much better on field on the back of the additions of Hanners, Robbo, Bruce (?), Kent, another preseason into the likes of Clark, Coffield, Gresh, Long, Paddy etc, a presumably much easier draw and hopefully much better coaching/gameplan, etc.

Bringing in King also almost guarantees that we'll move on at least one if not two of the Bruce, Paddy, Skunk, Battle, Marshall group over the next 12 months, and that could give us extra currency to use on those who play midfield. Maybe as soon as this upcoming trade period.

At the end of the day though, if we're not able to cobble together a pretty good midfield over the next 2-3 years out of Stuv, Seb, Hanners, Steele, Gresh, Clark, Acres, Dunstan, Billings, Sincs, Newnes, Long, Kent and so-on, then I reckon there's something pretty seriously wrong at the club, that no Bailey Smith is going to fix.

Hopefully with Ratts on board with the midfield group from this preseason that won't be the case and we won't need to add that much to it for it to be a very good midfield group indeed going forward.

You have been saying we had a good midfield for years. We even discussed ours and Melbourne and you said ours was better. The problem is it isn’t better. It has holes in it and no real star power. You could easily turn around exactly what you said and say we have potentially plenty of tall fierwrds and something is seriously wrong if we think king will fix the problem.

I think you are looking for other issues apart from actual ability of our mids. That is the problem unfortunately.

The simple fact is we have drafted many more talls than mids over the last few years considering the amount of each that are in a side. Also a failed mid doesn’t set you back many years but a failed tall forward certainly does. Do the same thing over and over again and failing is sign of madness.

 

[bird_man]

Who is the best state league ruckman?

Lewis Pierce - Frankston

 

[plugger66]

Vardy & Lobb are forwards first, ruckman second. Hickey is a ruckman. If west coast prefer to play two fwd-rucks instead of one fwd-ruck & one first ruckman then you are right. The fact that west coast are looking to get Hickey I think you are wrong. Taking Hickey instead of Roughead who is also a part time ruckman suggests Hickey is inline for their no.1 ruck role or at least until Natanui is fit.

Well vardy may as well leave

 

[bird_man]

Eagles will likely have

20 (Gaff)
22 (GC)
23 (Lycett)
39

I'd like us to try and throw in a sweetener to get a pick in the 20's. He is contracted so we can play hard ball on this one.

 

[BrutThough]

Hmm.. what’s the odds Hickey is close to AA within 3 years at WC.
Lycett compo pick sounds reasonable.
Not sure I would do that trade though.

Wont happen. No matter what jumper he wears, he will still be the average ruckman he has always been.

 

[Darkhour]

One of, if not the most meaningless stat in isolation.

Yep.

Give me a stat for efficiency forward of centre and for kicks that dont go sideways or backwards. Would bet my bottom dollar we would rank bottom 3.

Is there are stat for Kicking efficiency into forward 50??

Agreed. Can chip it around 10 x in the backline and then shank the important kick for a turnover goal. Still going at 90% efficiency.

Not really. This figure is the sum of its parts. The saints do not chip the ball around more so than any other team. Infact probably less so as we are more attacking. There are more effective measures of disposal efficiency but to blankets state we have terrible disposal is false.

 

[plugger66]

Wont happen. No matter what jumper he wears, he will still be the average ruckman he has always been.

The problem is he clearly our best average ruckman and by a fair margin

 

[triggering bro]

Well vardy may as well leave

He’s fairly injury prone & Lobb is a decent upgrade on him.

I thought all the talk was Lobb to Freo?

 

[Kilroy]

Lewis Pierce - Frankston

Done.

 

[triggering bro]

Eagles will likely have

20 (Gaff)
22 (GC)
23 (Lycett)
39

I'd like us to try and throw in a sweetener to get a pick in the 20's. He is contracted so we can play hard ball on this one.

I endorse the greediness but if the club is reasonable they’ll accept pick 40. Hickey ain’t worth anything more than that.

 

[BrutThough]

The problem is he clearly our best average ruckman and by a fair margin

He really isnt though. He makes us no better as a team than Longer or Pierce. It doesn't matter which one plays, it wont change the result of the game.

 

[stavro#4]

I endorse the greediness but if the club is reasonable they’ll accept pick 40. Hickey ain’t worth anything more than that.

We stayed the other day that Hickey and Longer would be first rucks at most teams.

So going by that do you think pick 40 is a worthy pick for a first ruck?

 

[bird_man]

I endorse the greediness but if the club is reasonable they’ll accept pick 40. Hickey ain’t worth anything more than that.

On his own that's not far off, which is why we need to throw something else in.

We can still make it a fair trade but do it on our terms.

Start with Hickey and 57 for 23.

 

[SufferingS8INT]

On a completely unrelated side note. Looking forward to seeing how Hunter Clark looks after a full year in the gym.

Could be the outside class we’re so desperate for.

 

[triggering bro]

We stayed the other day that Hickey and Longer would be first rucks at most teams.

So going by that do you think pick 40 is a worthy pick for a first ruck?

Leading the witness your honour.

Neither are first ruck quality. Hickey will fill in for the injured Natanui.

Pick 40 very reasonable but of course I hope the club extracts overs.

 

[Sir Skid]

Stanley says hi at pick 21

 

[kernelT]

Hickey is absolutely worth more than a pick in the 40's

He's our # 1 ruckmen and will be the reigning premiers # 1 ruckmen if he goes.

 

[bird_man]

On a completely unrelated side note. Looking forward to seeing how Hunter Clark looks after a full year in the gym.

Could be the outside class we’re so desperate for.

I think he played his best footy as an inside mid in his last year so I hope he stacks a bit of muscle on.

 

[triggering bro]

On his own that's not far off, which is why we need to throw something else in.

We can still make it a fair trade but do it on our terms.

Start with Hickey and 57 for 23.

I can see it being an argument over 23 vs 38. Maybe we swap our 2019 3rd for their 2019 4th? If similar ladder position to this year it makes it 23 & 70 for Hickey & 40.

 

[plugger66]

He’s fairly injury prone & Lobb is a decent upgrade on him.

I thought all the talk was Lobb to Freo?

Maybe you are right. I know nothing

 

[triggering bro]

Maybe you are right. I know nothing

Agree

 

[triggering bro]

Hickey is absolutely worth more than a pick in the 40's

He's our # 1 ruckmen and will be the reigning premiers # 1 ruckmen if he goes.

Hickey is terrible & inferior to Longer. Discuss.

 

[kernelT]

If hickey is not worth 23 then the eagles are welcome to Roughead. We shouldn't be doing 'fair' anyway, he's contracted and the eagles absolutely robbed us with Cripps and tried to again with Mitch brown.

I would start negotiations at their first pick.

 

[triggering bro]

Stanley says hi at pick 21

When that trade came through I thought it was a typo

 

[kernelT]

Hickey is terrible & inferior to Longer. Discuss.

Can't wait for next year with big bill back in the saddle