List Mgmt. 2018 St Kilda Trade Thread Part 4

[StCicatriz]

Yep, it was a disaster right from the get-go.

Richo says in the interview during one of our AFLX games that it's the young ones who are the ones who will take us that next step, so what do he and our coaching staff do?

Instead of playing these guys that he says are the most important to our hopes of progressing in their best positions, to make it easiest for them to improve and take us that next step, he starts the year with a bunch of them out of position, or in the VFL!

They play Steele on the wing, where he's very ordinary, Sinclair (who played by far his best footy on the wing in the previous year) forward (where he hasn't been much chop since his debut year), after saying over the summer that Acres will be "one of the most improved mids in the comp this year", they play him on the wing in round 1, and he's one of our best 2 or 3, then instead of leaving him there to thrive, they prioritise the out-of-form, good-ordinary Newnes there, and play Acres mostly forward again from the following week, then they start playing him in the ruck!

Then you've got Dunstan, who got the most votes in our B&F for the last 6 rounds of last year, who in their wisdom they start in the VFL, so that they can play an Armo that Richo later admits wasn't ready to play seniors at that stage. Once they bring Luke back in he kicks off where he left off last year, with a couple of 30 disposal games.

Then there was Lonie, who was one of our best in AFLX and against Carlton in JLT1, and who looked really sharp and like he'd gotten his game together again, who they dropped for JLT2, which was another decision that really shocked me at the time, having been really happy with what I saw of him live the previous few weeks. He was playing like he ended up playing late in the year.

Even Billings. I suspect he spent a lot of time training in the midfield over preseason and was expecting and wanting to play a lot more there during the season, but he was back to playing exclusively forward again and he really struggled to get going until they dropped him.

So I just think it was a car crash and that we shot ourselves in the foot big-time with all that, and as a result our season was largely over before it started, with our form and confidence shot.

This. The problem is what richo identifies publicly and what he actually implements are two different things. What he implements often conflicts with what he's trying to achieve. Which is why he won't go beyond next year. He's a flawed coach.

And this is what frustrated st Kilda supporters. What the club says and what it does are two different things. They're often full of spin in the moment. Lots of talk. Little action.

I think fans want them to actually follow through on the commitment and expectation they set.

Hopefully lethers starts to bring back a strong emphasis of actions not words. Which gets back to what people like George MG stav etc. Wanted after the really bad north loss. They didn't care for words anymore. They just wanted them to do something about it. Just deliver something.

Geary richo et have had a habit of making very strong statement in the media about how the performance was not acceptable. They apologise to fans. They say they will bounce back. They say that's not what they stand for. They want to make us proud. But the common theme was they're back to making the same exact statement literally 2-4 weeks later when they cop another bad loss. Which means thats exactly what they stand for. Its a recurring theme. That's what their consistent output is. I mean richo this year even went as far as to say if the players care and the club cares then they will do something about it. They didn't.

They need to just start performing and stop talking spin.

Sadly the first real sign of that would have been for Finnis to right his mistake. Instead we got a season of spin and talk and mixed messages to try and avoid that.

 

[Longmembrey]

A star will get money outside the cap whoever he plays for. I don’t buy this stuff about the bigger clubs just getting bigger. If we compare the vfl back then to the afl now nearly every side has their chance. Let’s face it we stuffed up after our last chance. And if you don’t think it would end up in court then why was free agency introduced. The afl didn’t want it but the players did

Well I respectfully disagree. The top 8 sides on the membership ladder have won 9 flags and the bottom 10 have won 1 flag in the last 10 years, and I don't see that pattern changing in the next 10 years.

Now some could argue it is chicken and egg (ie flags will bring members) but Roos, Dogs, Lions have had periods of success in last 20 years and still struggle for members.

There is definitely a correlation between Big clubs and premierships. How often do we hear star players say they want to go to ( OR stay at) a BIG club and play in the marquee games?

This is why the draft, trading and TPP is not adequately addressing equalization. In my opinion it will get worse as social media and marketing continue to grow and players realise they will earn a lot more outside (and after) footy when they go to a BIG club.

To make matters worse, the small clubs will stay small as they don't get marquee games, time slots or big sponsors.

Somehow Hawthorn bucked the trend - but I don't see that as realistically achievable for every club.

 

[plugger66]

This. The problem is what richo identifies publicly and what he actually implements are two different things. What he implements often conflicts with what he's trying to achieve. Which is why he won't go beyond next year. He's a flawed coach.

And this is what frustrated st Kilda supporters. What the club says and what it does are two different things. They're often full of spin in the moment. Lots of talk. Little action.

I think fans want them to actually follow through on the commitment and expectation they set.

Hopefully lethers starts to bring back a strong emphasis of actions not words. Which gets back to what people like George MG stav etc. Wanted after the really bad north loss. They didn't care for words anymore. They just wanted them to do something about it. Just deliver something.

Geary richo et have had a habit of making very strong statement in the media about how the performance was not acceptable. They apologise to fans. They say they will bounce back. They say that's not what they stand for. They want to make us proud. But the common theme was they're back to making the same exact statement literally 2-4 weeks later when they cop another bad loss. I mean richo this year even went as far as to say if the players care and the club cares then they will do something about it.

They need to just start performing and stop talking spin.

Sadly the first real sign of that would have been for Finnis to right his mistake. Instead we got a season of spin and talk and mixed messages to try and avoid that.

Im shocked.

 

[Old Man Rooey]

Thats my one criticism of him as well - he doesn't demand the ball or scream for it when he is in a good position. He has all the tools - great kick, extremely great vision and football brain, strong work ethic and can run all day. He needs to become more selfish because we are a better team which Sincs is playing well.

That West Coast game in 2017 when he single handily got us back in the game during the 2nd quarter is one of the best 10 minutes of football have seen one of our mids plays for years.

I think this will be where the interest lies next year with having Ratten, Hannebery and Slater around. All premiership players, all leaders. Can they change the way our players think, feel and act during games?

Someone may be able to tell me, but from last year who among our playing list and coaching group were previously an integral part of a successful club?

I'm stating the obvious, but simply having the right tools isn't enough...

 

[aussierulesrules]

Why do so many want Scully if his ankle is so bad that GWS are said to be willing to take pick 53 for him!?

On top of any lingering knee problems he has from earlier in his career and the fact he doesn't want to play for us, not to mention his age?

 

[StCicatriz]

I think this will be where the interest lies next year with having Ratten, Hannebery and Slater around. All premiership players, all leaders. Can they change the way our players think, feel and act during games?

Someone may be able to tell me, but from last year who among our playing list and coaching group were previously an integral part of a successful club?

I'm stating the obvious, but simply having the right tools isn't enough...

Playfair that's it. I don't think Kingsley had AFL premiership coaching experience. Only playfair.

So now we have ratten and playfair. Plus maybe more?

In terms of success as a player we obviously have a bit more in Slater, hanners, brown. Maybe more?

But there's obviously an emphasis on bringing in more premiership experience.

 

[StCicatriz]

Why do so many want Scully if his ankle is so bad that GWS are said to be willing to take pick 53 for him!?

On top of any lingering knee problems he has from earlier in his career and the fact he doesn't want to play for us?

This. I don't want him. Too outside. Sounds like a mercenary.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

Can you please explain this gameplan to me? I can't make it to live games and the way the game is televised you don't see the big picture.

What I see live most weeks (the Cliffs Notes version)

Play our best contested ball players outside of the middle so we can plan to lose most centre clearances (hooray we finished dead last for the year).

Consistently play the worst 3-5 players in our team at hitting a target deep in the backline. Then if we do get the ball back from the lost centre clearance just prey we don't just turn the ball over again.

If the ball actually gets to the middle of the ground then push extra numbers up to be 'strong in the contest', leaving a 2v1, 3v1 or occasionally even 4v1 in our forward 50.

Then if we accidentally hit a target through the middle, we must play on immediately without looking and kick to the aforementioned 3v1.

If close at 3/4 time, move Carlisle forward so the opposition can score more easily and win the game.

Not sure there is much else to it ...

 

[triggering bro]

I would love the club to come out publicly & say they want Whitfield. Offer him 10M x 7 years front loaded. Offer GWS pick 4 & next years first (we’d have to get afl approval seeing as we don’t have a second next year). It could allow the Giants to retain Lobb & Scully. Just need to get Whitfield & his manager on side first.

 

[StCicatriz]

I would love the club to come out publicly & say they want Whitfield. Offer him 10M x 7 years front loaded. Offer GWS pick 4 & next years first (we’d have to get afl approval seeing as we don’t have a second next year). It could allow the Giants to retain Lobb & Scully. Just got to get Whitfield & his manager on side first.

Speculation over here is Shiel deal is done and will be lodged on Monday. With setterfield done and scully almost done too they think lobb is a chance of staying.

Which explains why Freo suddenly threw pick 11 at Geelong.

I think what you are suggesting is on the money though. Blood is in the water. Start applying pressure. If not Whitfield what about hayne. What about corr. What about the guy we were into last year.

 

[triggering bro]

Speculation over here is Shiel deal is done and will be lodged on Monday. With setterfield done and scully almost done too they think lobb is a chance of staying.

Which explains why Freo suddenly threw pick 11 at Geelong.

I think what you are suggesting is on the money though. Blood is in the water. Start applying pressure. If not Whitfield what about hayne. What about corr. What about the guy we were into last year.

It’ll be hilarious if Freo walk away from the trade period without Lobb or Hogan.

 

[Longmembrey]

I wonder what kind of gems dildo is offering up for Shiel at the moment, I would love to see them miss out and Shiel stay GWS.

Actually, maybe that is why GWS are willing to let Scully go for peanuts. So they have the $ to keep Shiel. Shiel always seemed reluctant to go in my opinion- remember he did not request a trade in his exit interview

 

[D2D3]

It’ll be hilarious if Freo walk away from the trade period without Lobb or Hogan.

Oh I want it to happen so much. Would be a disaster for them.

 

[StCicatriz]

It’ll be hilarious if Freo walk away from the trade period without Lobb or Hogan.

That would warm my heart.

Apparently lobb went to the highest bidder. So wce turned their attention to hickey. They think the bulldogs guy isn't a ruck.

 

[Saint Prod]

You know why they were played out of position. Poor recruiting. Getting to many similar types who couldn’t play elsewhere which meant others who can play elsewhere had to even if it meant they weren’t at their best. That’s why I said agenda driven. That guy refuses to acknowledge poor recruiting so just blames coaching instead of many issues including recruiting and coaching

I have been saying this for a long time. Our midfielders r all slow and can only play one position which forces players out of their preferred position. We really have no wingers per sae. Recruit guys who can play that position or go to other clubs and get them like Kangas have with Polec Hall and the likes. They identified pace as a priority we have to do the same or the game will just pass us by no matter who is coaching us. Beside Steven who is really quick at our club? No one can break the lines gets back to our poor recruiting over the years. Hopefully Coffield may address this problem but we need a lot more.

 

[Southseas]

It's funny what a year can change in footy. Last year I would've been happy to take Whitfield, but not overly.

After his season this year...well, let's just say there's not much I wouldn't do to get it over the line.

 

[Longmembrey]

Speculation over here is Shiel deal is done and will be lodged on Monday. With setterfield done and scully almost done too they think lobb is a chance of staying.

Which explains why Freo suddenly threw pick 11 at Geelong.

I think what you are suggesting is on the money though. Blood is in the water. Start applying pressure. If not Whitfield what about hayne. What about corr. What about the guy we were into last year.

Please not Tomlinson though

 

[Animal Cager]

Yep, it was a disaster right from the get-go.

Richo says in the interview during one of our AFLX games that it's the young ones who are the ones who will take us that next step, so what do he and our coaching staff do?

Instead of playing these guys that he says are the most important to our hopes of progressing in their best positions, to make it easiest for them to improve and take us that next step, he starts the year with a bunch of them out of position, or in the VFL!

They play Steele on the wing, where he's very ordinary, Sinclair (who played by far his best footy on the wing in the previous year) forward (where he hasn't been much chop since his debut year), after saying over the summer that Acres will be "one of the most improved mids in the comp this year", they play him on the wing in round 1, and he's one of our best 2 or 3, then instead of leaving him there to thrive, they prioritise the out-of-form, good-ordinary Newnes there, and play Acres mostly forward again from the following week, then they start playing him in the ruck!

Then you've got Dunstan, who got the most votes in our B&F for the last 6 rounds of last year, who in their wisdom they start in the VFL, so that they can play an Armo that Richo later admits wasn't ready to play seniors at that stage. Once they bring Luke back in he kicks off where he left off last year, with a couple of 30 disposal games.

Then there was Lonie, who was one of our best in AFLX and against Carlton in JLT1, and who looked really sharp and like he'd gotten his game together again, who they dropped for JLT2, which was another decision that really shocked me at the time, having been really happy with what I saw of him live the previous few weeks. He was playing like he ended up playing late in the year.

Even Billings. I suspect he spent a lot of time training in the midfield over preseason and was expecting and wanting to play a lot more there during the season, but he was back to playing exclusively forward again and he really struggled to get going until they dropped him.

So I just think it was a car crash and that we shot ourselves in the foot big-time with all that, with pretty much all of it backfiring, and as a result our season was largely over before it started, with our form and confidence shot amongst the young group as a whole in particular. The young group we were relying on taking us that next step.

That's a good assessment. The good thing is, they are a series of mistakes that are easily fixed.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Sinclair is easily best 22.

Good Lord no way.
Soft as butter.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Skull **** Scully Do not want

 

[saint66au]

Maybe Acres was played forward because he was our most reliable set shot for goal in the first half of the year..but his field kicking cant hit the side of a barn..

 

[austinnn]

Seems like a bit of a gimmick to me. The NRL has always lagged behind the AFL in terms of professionalism and sports science so I’m not sure what he brings to the table.

Happy to be proven wrong though.

Billy Slater apparently learnt a lot of what he knows about leadership from Nick Maxwell, who in turn learnt about leadership from Mick Malthouse. Was Maxwell that good a leader?

 

[bird_man]

Billy Slater apparently learnt a lot of what he knows about leadership from Nick Maxwell, who in turn learnt about leadership from Mick Malthouse. Was Maxwell that good a leader?

Apparently he was a terrific leader.

Premiership captain, had a leadership role at the Storm and was recruited to do the same role at the Pies.

 

[SaintersUnite]

How long has Dayne Zorkos contract got left?

 

[Sully111]

The thing i want to see is for them to go after good kicks. I know it sounds simple, but our field kicking is atrocious. Imo, apart from having Richo as a coach, it's our biggest problem.. just an overall lack of skill.
I've seen the skill level steadily decline for a while now. Think about when we had Dal, BJ, Lenny, Joey... all great field kicks. I don't care how much pressure you apply, if you just keep turning the ball over, you're not going to get anywhere. It was a big part of the hawks' success. We need people who can actually consistently kick the ball well.