Mega Thread 2018 Trade Period Discussion part 2! (cont. in Part 3 - link in OP)

[headache1]

I don't have a problem with the Scully trade to Hawthorn. I don't see it as draft tampering or corruption.

GWS effectively released Scully to be a free agent, with Hawthorn taking him at his 'asking price'. His 'asking price' being his existing GWS contract. GWS ****** up their salary cap management so to prevent themselves being punished for going over, they had to effectively make Scully a free agent and accept the fact they weren't going to get value for him.

Hawthorn come to the table, they're offering to pay all of his (reportedly very high) salary, and the 'trade' is done basically free agency style. Other clubs don't want Scully at his asking price, so he goes to Hawthorn.

Hawthorn have effectively bought Scully with cap space, just like Richmond did with Lynch, or we did with Betts

GWS also believe that his ankle is absolutely knackered and that he has no chance of getting back to his best.

 

[GROTTO]

Hawks are an awesomely run club, hopefully we get to that level of someday.

They have like "Two Riccuitos" that run that Club, in Dunstall and Bereton.

Mind you Bererton didnt want Clarkson years and years go. He wanted Ayres.

 

[Scorpus]

GWS also believe that his ankle is absolutely knackered and that he has no chance of getting back to his best.

Yeah exactly. It's a salary cap dump and Hawthorn were willing to take the cap hit, so they paid nothing in picks, like you would for a free agent

 

[marvin]

I don't have a problem with the Scully trade to Hawthorn. I don't see it as draft tampering or corruption.

GWS effectively released Scully to be a free agent, with Hawthorn taking him at his 'asking price'. His 'asking price' being his existing GWS contract. GWS ****** up their salary cap management so to prevent themselves being punished for going over, they had to effectively make Scully a free agent and accept the fact they weren't going to get value for him.

Hawthorn come to the table, they're offering to pay all of his (reportedly very high) salary, and the 'trade' is done basically free agency style. Other clubs don't want Scully at his asking price, so he goes to Hawthorn.

Hawthorn have effectively bought Scully with cap space, just like Richmond did with Lynch, or we did with Betts

I think you are about right here. The trickle-down effects are going to be interesting.

1 - Scully was thought to be on about $500k with 3 years left. Not a fortune, but also not meaningless. I guess that tightens things up for Chad. The only real loss off the books for the Hawks in 2019 is Cyril - Dureya wouldn't have cost much, so either Hawthorn think they can get Wingard for well under $1m/year, or they've gone cold on that deal.

2 - Exactly how badly did GWS screw up their salary cap? I would have thought Shiel coming off the books would have helped a lot and they wouldn't have to dump a second player. Or are they signalling that they don't think the Shiel deal will happen?

 

[Golumless]

Highly doubt it will.

He's what, 6 months into recovery from a broken ankle (a career killing injury at worst case) and still having issues if GWS are to be believed here (and i'm inclined too seeing how eager they were to dump him despite being a good player)? I wouldn't discount that GWS may have no faith in him getting back to even a reasonable level and are just salary dumping him on anyone they could.

Hawks may have just gambled on if they've got that diagnosis wrong, but really haven't lost much in case they haven't seeing I'm guessing they've got a lot of cap space.

 

[weetert]

Scully = Hartung lite

 

[Golumless]

I think you are about right here. The trickle-down effects are going to be interesting.

1 - Scully was thought to be on about $500k with 3 years left. Not a fortune, but also not meaningless. I guess that tightens things up for Chad. The only real loss off the books for the Hawks in 2019 is Cyril - Dureya wouldn't have cost much, so either Hawthorn think they can get Wingard for well under $1m/year, or they've gone cold on that deal.

2 - Exactly how badly did GWS screw up their salary cap? I would have thought Shiel coming off the books would have helped a lot and they wouldn't have to dump a second player. Or are they signalling that they don't think the Shiel deal will happen?

GWS are around 2mil over the salary cap coming into this trade period. Smells of a club that thought it's best shot at a premiership was 2017-18.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Don't see the problem with the Scrimshaw deal either. Are people being blinded by Hawthorn?

GWS traded Paul Ahern to minnow club North Melbourne in 2016 for pick 69. A former pick 7 who hadn't played a game.
Harley Bennell, a pick 2, got traded to Fremantle for a second rounder.
A couple of years back Essendon got rid of Scott Gumbleton for pick 55, a former pick 2.
We got Tom Lynch, a pick 13, for pick 37

Ahern did 2 ACL’s
Bennel was and is off the rails
Gumbelton wasn’t that young when traded and was a confirmed spud.
Lynch couldn’t get game at St Kilda, and he was likely to get one when we traded for him. It was good ting for us.
Scrimshaw has been trade for less and he was a top 10 pick. His value ha not dropped that much.

 

[Shaz2012]

GC's projected midfield next year has Miles, C Ellis, G Horlin-Smith and J Lyons.

A true collection of "meh" if there ever was one.

Clearly missing a Cam Ellis-Yolmen #ItsHappening

 

[marvin]

GWS are around 2mil over the salary cap coming into this trade period. Smells of a club that thought it's best shot at a premiership was 2017-18.

2m? Wow. That's insanely bad management.

 

[Bicks]

Scully = Hartung lite

You serious?

 

[70lethal]

Suns loose Lynch, KK, Hall, Barlow, Rosa, Rischitelli, Scrimshaw so far from main list and probably May leaving them with 30 players
they have added Ellis, Miles, GHS, Collins, Burgess, Corbett puts them up to 36

I may have missed someone but that looks like 8 players out and 6 in. They only have 4 list spots left if they go to 40 + 4 rookies

What are they going to do with 2 3 5 19 24 29

They either need to either consolidate picks or trade out picks this year for next year or there's more leaving.

No need to panic, there's so many options, something is on the cards and Hamish doesn't have to sell the farm.
If we arent trading in a player I hope we take 5 picks to this draft.

 

[Shaz2012]

If GWS was going to be $2m over their salary cap, how did the AFL let that happen? I thought they were supposed to be on top of this. Integrity of the equalization system is affected as a result. They should have been forced to trade players like Scully at full market value rather than as a salary dump.

 

[Stiffy_18]

2m? Wow. That's insanely bad management.

Apparently it's $2.4 million! Mind boggling stuff, especially since the salary cap increased by 20% last year. That's an increase of about $2 million so essentially prior to the increase in the salary cap this was projected to be a figure of $4.4 million over the cap (i.e. almost half the salary cap)

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...meeting-with-jesse-hogan-20181015-p509tp.html

Scully has three years remaining on his contract on significant money. The Hawks are expected to give him a three-year deal - though it is unclear whether he will have the same remuneration. GWS will not be paying any of his contract, in what is clearly a salary dump by the Giants, who are losing at least four players - Dylan Shiel, Lobb, Scully, Will Setterfield - and removing as much as much $2.4 million from their salary cap.

 

[Scorpus]

Ahern did 2 ACL’s
Bennel was and is off the rails
Gumbelton wasn’t that young when traded and was a confirmed spud.
Lynch couldn’t get game at St Kilda, and he was likely to get one when we traded for him. It was good ting for us.
Scrimshaw has been trade for less and he was a top 10 pick. His value ha not dropped that much.

Scrimshaw managed 4 games at Gold Coast, one of the worst teams in the competition, despite being drafted as a pick 7 with elite talent. He's a defender playing in a team that frequently got injuries down back, so much so they were playing Jack Leslie and Charlie Ballard as key defenders.

If he wasn't able to get a game at the Gold Coast, maybe he's just not that good?

 

[LC40]

We should have contested the Tippet sanctions at the time. We didn't go over the cap just made a stupid unsigned contract.

We self imposed the sanctions on ourselves. Chapman's brightest moment, we pis*ed our pants and paid too high a price.
We should have contested the charge, as you said we didn't go over the cap.

 

[Deaneus!]

We self imposed the sanctions on ourselves. Chapman's brightest moment, we pis*ed our pants and paid too high a price.
We should have contested the charge, as you said we didn't go over the cap.

But but but we had to save Trigg!

 

[GreyCrow]

GWS ****** up their salary cap management so to prevent themselves being punished for going over, they had to effectively make Scully a free agent and accept the fact they weren't going to get value for him.

GWS are around 2mil over the salary cap coming into this trade period. Smells of a club that thought it's best shot at a premiership was 2017-18.

There was no **** up nor mistake. It was deliberate strategy designed to bring flags in 2017-18

 

[Runnin Blue]

Scully = Hartung lite

 

[Vader]

Apparently it's $2.4 million! Mind boggling stuff, especially since the salary cap increased by 20% last year. That's an increase of about $2 million so essentially prior to the increase in the salary cap this was projected to be a figure of $4.4 million over the cap (i.e. almost half the salary cap)

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...meeting-with-jesse-hogan-20181015-p509tp.html

The article doesn't say that they were $2.4M over the cap. It just says that the combined salary dump, from losing Shiel, Lobb, Setterfield & Scully, "removes as much as $2.4M from their salary cap".

Setterfield & Scully are definitely salary dumps. Shiel... maybe not. I think the $2M figure is very believable. By dumping $2.4M they may have just bought themselves a little bit of breathing space.

 

[Golumless]

There was no **** up nor mistake. It was deliberate strategy designed to bring flags in 2017-18

I didn't call it either a **** up or a mistake. Just that it was that.

 

[Shaz2012]

Suns loose Lynch, KK, Hall, Barlow, Rosa, Rischitelli, Scrimshaw so far from main list and probably May leaving them with 30 players
they have added Ellis, Miles, GHS, Collins, Burgess, Corbett puts them up to 36

I may have missed someone but that looks like 8 players out and 6 in. They only have 4 list spots left if they go to 40 + 4 rookies

What are they going to do with 2 3 5 19 24 29

They either need to either consolidate picks or trade out picks this year for next year or there's more leaving.

No need to panic, there's so many options, something is on the cards and Hamish doesn't have to sell the farm.
If we arent trading in a player I hope we take 5 picks to this draft.

Good post. I was wondering what their numbers were looking like. They probably will go to 40 because they have an extra rookie allowance. But if they only have 4 spots for those 6 picks then they aren't trading 2, 3 or 5.

St Kilda have 4, 28 and then 67. I wonder if we can do something like

STK: 4 for 8, 24, 29
ADE: 8, 16 for 4
GC: 24, 29 for 16

Gives St Kilda 4, 24, 28, 29 to use in this draft.

 

[GROTTO]

GWS are around 2mil over the salary cap coming into this trade period. Smells of a club that thought it's best shot at a premiership was 2017-18.

Carlton will be in the same boat too in a few years time with the way they have gone about rebuilding their list. They are the quintessential GWS Lite.

A lot of their players coming out of contracts at the same time and some of them will command huge dollars. Cripps should hold that Club to ransom for the way they have gone about supporting him. He is one man show in that midfield and I get the feeling his AFL career will be cut short.

 

[spexau]

Good post. I was wondering what their numbers were looking like. They probably will go to 40 because they have an extra rookie allowance. But if they only have 4 spots for those 6 picks then they aren't trading 2, 3 or 5.

St Kilda have 4, 28 and then 67. I wonder if we can do something like

STK: 4 for 8, 24, 29
ADE: 8, 16 for 4
GC: 24, 29 for 16

Gives St Kilda 4, 24, 28, 29 to use in this draft.

GC probably need more picks, not less

 

[GROTTO]

There was no **** up nor mistake. It was deliberate strategy designed to bring flags in 2017-18

They blew it in 2016 much like us in 2017.

They had the Swans measure in 2016 but lost to the Dogs in that infamous Prelim. Mind you they lost players through injury during the game, similarly against the Tigers in 2017.