Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

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BluesRule said:
I know I will get shit thrown at me, but I still think SOS did a good job here.

We did not lose any Key players !!!!!

Papley was a great potential addition, but Swans did not play ball. After weeks of negotiating if SOS caves and throws in more than #9 - then he sets up a future expectation that SOS will cave. At least everyone knows that SOS does not cave in to pressure (yet again).

Martin is similar. GCS were pushed by AFL (bless them) to go hard. Every commentator said that a first round pick for Martin was excessive. GCS did not cave as they already had #1,2,15 and 20 (thanks AFL). SOS may get Martin in PSD at #3 and all is OK. But seriously should SOS have caved and paid #9 and 2020 2nd for Martin and #15. Looks a stupid deal to me, so happy to see what unfolds.

We paid more for Pitonet than we got for the more established (but older) Phillips. I am OK with this as whilst Phillips was good, we get a ready to go younger option with potential to play on long after Kreuzer has exited and until TDK becomes a dominant beast. Smart business there.

Eddie was not SOS idea, but if the Coach wants him how can you argue with losing a 2020 4th. Hope Eddie adopts Simmo'esq powers and plays on for a few years at a high level.

We can still get Sam Grey (DFA?) or Newnes or riley Knight if we still need older bodies. But do they really enhance our team?

Pick #9 should be a good player. Bonus!!!

Noted that Dekonig, Dow and Manton are not ranked in top 30 of draft. Might be a sneaky chance to get to us if we want them.

Lots still to come....
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The problem is that we don’t really know what overpaying is. Plenty of times teams have seemed to be over paying (Cameron, Prestia ect) and they end up as great deals. The reverse happens too when players look to come cheaply and are just a waste (Pickett, Sumner ect) for me Papley is a guy who I think we should’ve overpaid for even if the meant pick 9 plus extra. That’s just me though.

Agree with Martin, we were screwed once they got their assistance. We maybe should’ve read the layout of the land a little better but it’s bloody tough to do. I doubt we expected they wouldn’t move on their demands.

If we get Martin in the PSD it’ll still be an alright offseason imo
 
HavUEvaSeenTheRain said:
The worry is we are about 0-5 of finding small forwards so far.
If we get Martin in the PSD I think we have still done pretty well. For me Butler hurts if he was open to moving to us. Just delist someone like Lang, DeLuca or Polson and make room for him as insurance.

I don’t know what we offered for Papley but I think with him in our side and with the compromised draft next year our future second would be worth about 30. I would of offered pick 9, future second for Papley and some late pick back. Statistically I think we would have been better off.
My worry is if we do miss Martin we are now not a lot of bad luck away from potentially struggling again next year which makes everything much tougher. (Attracting players, players not looking elsewhere for big dollars, developing players ect)
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We've been horribly unlucky, the ones we've recruited in the past have become injury prone and gave up or just weren't that good. We've got time and for where we are, this is the season to bring them in and we will. It's not late it's just a normal list build.

Does Butler really hurt that much? He's a good pressure forward but is he much better, if better at all than Gibbons who I though finished the season pretty well in that role? It's not like Butler was playing AFL and was heavily sought after. Had a little interest and wen't for a nothing pick. Butler would have been a handy option but not one we should be disappointed at missing.

Papley has plenty of years on his contract. He's a fool for signing such a long contract if he had an inkling of leaving. It was always going to be a long shot for Swans to let Papley go. He only has himself to blame here. Nothing we could do, especially with Swans unable to land Daniher.

We got involved in a real shitshow. Swans, how stupid are they thinking they would get Daniher for his worth from Essendon. Essendon are never going to do that. A lot of other clubs yes, but Essendon have a reputation and how Sydney were unaware of that who knows. Was a long shot trying to get Papley but if we were told we were a chance by Sydney then so be it. That didn't work out. End of the day there was no getting Papley, he became a non option. I don't think that offer gets it done, Swans have Papley for a while and didn't land their big goal kicker, no way they are letting him go. I guess the Swans think they will still get him so they will be content they didn't overpay so probably not that silly but like us they had a crack and didn't get it.

I don't think we will struggle if we miss Martin, we've got a forward line with some gun talls and some really good medium forwards and some more than handy small forwards all ready. We overstate our need for small forwards a lot on here and we do need them but we need high quality ones. Betts will be good. Cuningham will be good. Gibbons has become a good pressure forward/high half forward. We'll beat a lot of teams with that forward line we have.

I think Martin will get to us. He'll put a massive price on himself, Melbourne won't be able to pay it and Suns won't but we will get to us. He'll be pretty pissed with Gold Coast for making an example of him. We'll end up getting him for nothing.

We'll go to the draft and pick up a good youngster with pick 9 and I think we will be happy with him. There are a few there so that's good. You generally don't have much of a time frame for developing small forwards so no issues with drafting teenagers here.

I think one thing you can guarantee is Papley will be half out the door from here on. Looking at the Tomlinson and Gibbs situation. When players want to go and think they are going to be let go and their clubs hold them to their contract, they keep trying to get out until they eventually do. We've got time, we'll wait and if we need him and he still wants us then he will come to us.

Daniher will walk from Essendon next season and end up in Sydney. He wants that, he'll be stewing over not getting there. Swans will keep on him there. Papley will be feeling much the same, he thought he was coming to Melbourne, he's going to be trying to get out and I think eventually they will budge.

When Daniher walks to Sydney we will push for Papley again next season and see what happens. If not we'll move on to other targets.

End of the day we did our best and were let down by forces beyond our control. We'll still end up with the types of players we need but just not the names we were expecting and hoping for.

It's by no means a disaster, we'll do well next year with what we have got and we'll go into the recruitment period fully loaded with picks and cap space knowing exactly what players we need.

It's disappointing but we did the best we could and unfortunately we were let down by other clubs and probably a bit of a lack of genuine and easily available talent being available but I can't really say that until the draft is over and we see what we get.

We could have easily got bent over here and gone into next year with nothing. I think this was a good result and if we get a good player with 9 like we should then it really is the best result possibly.
 
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RAPPA said:
Can only assume the club is confident that Betts will play the permanent small forward option and Papley is a lock for next year
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Can only assume the club is confident that betts will play the permanent small forward option (that he has his whole career), they will get MArtin for nothing and a great player in the draft at 9.
 
Pick 10 – Carlton Blues (via Adelaide) – Brodie Kemp
193cm, 82kg

www.theroar.com.au

2019 AFL Phantom Draft: Top 50, Champion Data rankings

The 2019 AFL Draft is imminent, and there is speculation aplenty about which new talents will arrive at which clubs over the two nights…
www.theroar.com.au
A versatile utility who has played in a variety of positions during his junior career. Probably his best scope is if he becomes a big-bodied midfielder-forward at the next level. ACL injury means he’s unlikely to play much footy in his first year. (ROAR)

I hope this isn't the rooster we are targeting!

CB
 
gbatman said:
We've been horribly unlucky, the ones we've recruited in the past have become injury prone and gave up or just weren't that good. We've got time and for where we are, this is the season to bring them in and we will. It's not late it's just a normal list build.

Does Butler really hurt that much? He's a good pressure forward but is he much better, if better at all than Gibbons who I though finished the season pretty well in that role? It's not like Butler was playing AFL and was heavily sought after. Had a little interest and wen't for a nothing pick. Butler would have been a handy option but not one we should be disappointed at missing.

Papley has plenty of years on his contract. He's a fool for signing such a long contract if he had an inkling of leaving. It was always going to be a long shot for Swans to let Papley go. He only has himself to blame here. Nothing we could do, especially with Swans unable to land Daniher.

We got involved in a real shitshow. Swans, how stupid are they thinking they would get Daniher for his worth from Essendon. Essendon are never going to do that. A lot of other clubs yes, but Essendon have a reputation and how Sydney were unaware of that who knows. Was a long shot trying to get Papley but if we were told we were a chance by Sydney then so be it. That didn't work out. End of the day there was no getting Papley, he became a non option. I don't think that offer gets it done, Swans have Papley for a while and didn't land their big goal kicker, no way they are letting him go.

I don't think we will struggle if we miss Martin, we've got a forward line with some gun talls and some really good medium forwards and some more than handy small forwards all ready. We overstate our need for small forwards a lot on here and we do need them but we need high quality ones. Betts will be good. Cuningham will be good. Gibbons has become a good pressure forward/high half forward. We'll beat a lot of teams with that forward line we have.

I think Martin will get to us. He'll put a massive price on himself, Melbourne won't be able to pay it and Suns won't but we will get to us. He'll be pretty pi**ed with Gold Coast for making an example of him. We'll end up getting him for nothing.

We'll go to the draft and pick up a good youngster with pick 9 and I think we will be happy with him. There are a few there so that's good. You generally don't have much of a time frame for developing small forwards so no issues with drafting teenagers here.

I think one thing you can guarantee is Papley will be half out the door from here on. Looking at the Tomlinson and Gibbs situation. When players want to go and think they are going to be let go and their clubs hold them to their contract, they keep trying to get out until they eventually do. We've got time, we'll wait and if we need him and he still wants us then he will come to us.

Daniher will walk from Essendon next season and end up in Sydney. He wants that, he'll be stewing over not getting there. Swans will keep on him there. Papley will be feeling much the same, he thought he was coming to Melbourne, he's going to be trying to get out and I think eventually they will budge.

When Daniher walks to Sydney we will push for Papley again next season and see what happens. If not we'll move on to other targets.

End of the day we did our best and were let down by forces beyond our control. We'll still end up with the types of players we need but just not the names we were expecting and hoping for.

It's by no means a disaster, we'll do well next year with what we have got and we'll go into the recruitment period fully loaded with picks and cap space knowing exactly what players we need.

It's disappointing but we did the best we could and unfortunately we were let down by other clubs and probably a bit of a lack of genuine and easily available talent being available but I can't really say that until the draft is over and we see what we get.

We could have easily got bent over here and gone into next year with nothing. I think this was a good result and if we get a good player with 9 like we should then it really is the best result possibly.
Click to expand...
Glad you're happy
 
Dramoth said:
He's only played 5 games this year... and 45 for his career so far (5 seasons). There might be something underlying that came out in the medical. And a lot of the other guys people are mentioning that we should have gone for haven't played a lot of AFL this year either. And I think that the club is done with filling up with depth players now!
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When we drafted Butler he was injured and pretty much missed the entire first 2 years due to the ankle injury he had as well as glandular fever when he arrived but was fine midway through 2016 and played some vfl games then played 23 games in 2017.

He was injured over pre season but resumed in round 3/4 this year and has been it all year and played an excellent back half to the season and finals so i dont think it would have been the medical as he was emergency throughout our AFL finals campaign.

Butler pretty much lost his spot to Baker / Stack and Lynch coming into the team meant we couldnt play the 4/5 smalls we did in 17/18
 
JohnnyFontane90 said:
For what he would have cost butler should never have been dependent on papely. When I saw we cooled off our interest in butler i assumed it was because papely was 100%. no other explanation other than poor trading strategy from SOS...
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I was surprised we actually got #56 for Butler as the club and Balme were not that interested in the pick number but to facilitate a move to get him to the club he wanted and we will most likely not use #56 and try to combine it to move up our later picks
If Butler had said Carlton then the trade would have probably been for a pick that was not going to be used by carlton similar to the betts deal imo
so effectively a free trade. I think he would have been good at the blues with his speed and the MacKay/Curnow types to crumb off
 
cfc4life said:
Don't think we're in the position to criticise them. They identified needs, found the players, and most importantly they got the deals done. Sure they overpaid for Hill, but that's the game. Eagles overpaid for Kelly, the pies with Treloar, the Dons with Shiel.
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And Richmond at the time over paid for an injury riddled Dion Prestia ! we all thought it was a 10-15 type pick that was his value but GC demanded and got pick #6 but it turns out if you trust your judgement and have confidence in it then sometimes you need to pay a little extra.

Im also extremely surprised this deal didnt get done with how close the 2 teams were with where they were at
Carl Offer : 2020 2nd & 3rd rounder
GC want : 2020 2nd rounder plus swap 9 for 15 and dont want the 3rd

So basically the main difference was a 6 spot downgrade in a weak draft where picks between 5-20 are meant to be extremely even going by all the junior watchers.

Strange really :think:
 
THE_GUN said:
I was surprised we actually got #56 for Butler as the club and Balme were not that interested in the pick number but to facilitate a move to get him to the club he wanted and we will most likely not use #56 and try to combine it to move up our later picks
If Butler had said Carlton then the trade would have probably been for a pick that was not going to be used by carlton similar to the betts deal imo
so effectively a free trade. I think he would have been good at the blues with his speed and the MacKay/Curnow types to crumb off
Click to expand...

Probably not a lot better than Riley Knight or Sam Gray as small forward options, and we may be able to get them for free as DFAs.
Knight has experience playing with McGov and Betts so could fit in, and Gray has better recent AFL form.
Not too much regret from me on missing Butler.
 
CoachB said:
Pick 10 – Carlton Blues (via Adelaide) – Brodie Kemp
193cm, 82kg

www.theroar.com.au

2019 AFL Phantom Draft: Top 50, Champion Data rankings

The 2019 AFL Draft is imminent, and there is speculation aplenty about which new talents will arrive at which clubs over the two nights…
www.theroar.com.au
A versatile utility who has played in a variety of positions during his junior career. Probably his best scope is if he becomes a big-bodied midfielder-forward at the next level. ACL injury means he’s unlikely to play much footy in his first year. (ROAR)

I hope this isn't the rooster we are targeting!

CB
Click to expand...
He will be gone before #9!

We should bid for Finn McGuiness. Looks classy and would love a Josh Kennedy type with high level athletic skills.
See if Hawks match....
 
After seeing today’s byline on afl.com - “Silvaggni is Shattered” - I re-watched yesterday post trade interview with SOS. He looked calm and responsive to me. The word “shattered” came from Damien Barrett immediately after the interview. What a beat up! Those journos love turning up the emotional temperature to stir up the listeners and supporters.
SOS’ explanation about Papley was clear and credible. Without the Daniher trade going through we weren’t going to get Papley. That was well known. Sydney will have a very unhappy player to deal with all year.
As for Martin, SOS as good as said, with a smile, that he expects to get him for nothing in the National or pre season draft. Martin is uncontracted, wants to come to a Carlton and this is the second year running when he’s tried to get out of GC. They would be asking for legal and other trouble if they draft him at the PSD. Seriously.
There’s no need for all the meltdowns 😉
 

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CoachB said:
Pick 10 – Carlton Blues (via Adelaide) – Brodie Kemp
193cm, 82kg

www.theroar.com.au

2019 AFL Phantom Draft: Top 50, Champion Data rankings

The 2019 AFL Draft is imminent, and there is speculation aplenty about which new talents will arrive at which clubs over the two nights…
www.theroar.com.au
A versatile utility who has played in a variety of positions during his junior career. Probably his best scope is if he becomes a big-bodied midfielder-forward at the next level. ACL injury means he’s unlikely to play much footy in his first year. (ROAR)

I hope this isn't the rooster we are targeting!

CB
Click to expand...
hmmmmmm.......

1571291892320.png
 
Percy2257 said:
After seeing today’s byline on afl.com - “Silvaggni is Shattered” - I re-watched yesterday post trade interview with SOS. He looked calm and responsive to me. The word “shattered” came from Damien Barrett immediately after the interview. What a beat up! Those journos love turning up the emotional temperature to stir up the listeners and supporters.
SOS’ explanation about Papley was clear and credible. Without the Daniher trade going through we weren’t going to get Papley. That was well known. Sydney will have a very unhappy player to deal with all year.
As for Martin, SOS as good as said, with a smile, that he expects to get him for nothing in the National or pre season draft. Martin is uncontracted, wants to come to a Carlton and this is the second year running when he’s tried to get out of GC. They would be asking for legal and other trouble if they draft him at the PSD. Seriously.
There’s no need for all the meltdowns
Click to expand...
The above mentioned alleged journalist makes me cringe , has way too much exposure , sad indictment on state of afl media

On SM-T580 using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
FanofFev said:
I’d like to see us pick up Townsend as a DFA
Liked his vfl finals campaign and brings hardness around every contest. Wouldn’t mind taking the risk on Bennell either.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...

1 thing you will get with this guys is he will give you 100% and is probably pound for pound the hardest player in the afl and will die for his team mates.

I hope if he doesnt get picked up he is offered a role at Richmond VFL as a player and development coach

Just the type of person you build a club/Team around
 
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