Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

[HereComesJuddy]

Whereas I would have loved for us to trade for Caldwell this year, I can't see us targeting any young mids, regardless of how much SOS liked them, next year.

We have so many mids right now that could become something or amount to little - Setterfield, Kennedy, Dow, Fisher, Kemp, Stocker, Philp...just for starters.

Next year looks like - 1. Ruckman 2. Goal-kicking small/medium forward. That's it, all being well.

Would love if Caldwell comes to us. Under 8 games this year and we could get him for a 3rd imo.

Still some work to be done but i agree, small forward and ruck are 2 glaring holes, unless pinot noir comes on like we hope

 

[Eiffel 65]

Would love if Caldwell comes to us. Under 8 games this year and we could get him for a 3rd imo.

Still some work to be done but i agree, small forward and ruck are 2 glaring holes, unless pinot noir comes on like we hope

Don't need a ruck. TDK will be a jet. Pittonet is a decent backup too.

 

[Arr0w]

Whereas I would have loved for us to trade for Caldwell this year, I can't see us targeting any young mids, regardless of how much SOS liked them, next year.

We have so many mids right now that could become something or amount to little - Setterfield, Kennedy, Dow, Fisher, Kemp, Stocker, Philp...just for starters.

Next year looks like - 1. Ruckman 2. Goal-kicking small/medium forward. That's it, all being well.

It's great that we add Stocker and other young mids this year, all that have versatility, even when so many thought we wouldn't draft more young mids over the last 2 years


Yeah things will change unfortunately, unless SOS's replacement has the same effective mantra

 

[Arr0w]

I still think we've got room for one more midfielder, especially given Ed and Murphy will retire in the coming years.

There are a lot of guys on our list that we name as midfielders, but the reality is they're probably better suited to other positions.

Kennedy has arguably shown his best football whilst playing in the forward line. Fisher will hopefully develop into a Gresham type across half forward. SPS to become an elite half back etc.

Keep in mind a few of our mids can act as dangerous targets whilst resting forward. Kemp, Cripps and Setterfield to name a few.

Way too much sense

 

[Blue and Silver]

So... List structure.

This is a long post warning.

Spoiler: Long Post

I want to try and break up our list into roles, and then a list of players who can play them by preference.

So, say the top key forward is Charlie, second is Harry, then Gov, Casboult, De Koning, then it gets hairy so you say... Cripps?

The idea is to try and get an idea for depth, through the lens of how we might play

So starting in the forward line:

Small Forward.

Key role is creating scoring opportunities. This requires both offensive pressure, being in dangerous spots, and defensive pressure, killing time and space for defenders to force turnovers in our end of the ground. So you want a forward who has very good game sense, chases, tackles and forces their opponent to be accountable. You need at least 2 on the ground, but as many as 2 other players who can play in this role on rotation

Player rankings:

Eddie Betts
David Cuningham
Michael Gibbons
Jack Martin
Zac Fisher
Samo Petrevski-Seton
Matthew Owies
Marc Murphy
Darcy Lang
Ed Curnow
Cameron Polson

The bolded 2 on top are making my starting 18.

Tall Forward

Key role is being the target for forward entries. Must have a strong marking game, ability to win 1 on 1 contests and create mismatches which attract defensive over-reactions or scoring opportunities. Tall forwards are focal points of attacks and need to have a strong understanding of their team's movement style, and be willing to capitalize on opposition defensive attention, either by pulling it away from teammates, or by forcing packs where smaller players can be in dangerous spots. You need at least 2.

Player rankings:

Charlie Curnow
Harry McKay
Mitch McGovern
Levi Casboult
Patrick Cripps
Jack Silvagni
Tom De Koning
Liam Jones
Ben Silvagni
Finbar O'Dwyer

Medium Forward

Key role is to be a damn match-up headache. A medium forward is a jack of all trades, they aren't a dominant mark, they aren't lightning when goal-side, but you cannot sleep on them. The point is to force opponents to make a defensive choice about how they cover you, having already dedicated their best tall defender (small lockdown defenders are rarer, as the role is actually immensely difficult). So if a team wants to zone out and cover space to kill marking opportunities, your job is to lead hard and wide, and force a defender with you, creating a hole. If they want to play close, your role is to get in the way and let the talls get free. You also are supposed to kick goals whenever you can. Medium forwards usually have some standout athletic trait, power, speed, endurance. Something that makes them a hard match-up. You should only have 1 designated

Player Rankings

Mitch McGovern
Charlie Curnow
Jack Silvagni
Matthew Kennedy
Finbar O'Dwyer

Mid-Forward

Key role is to be a playmaker. You go up the ground, get into dangerous positions as the player who is both outside and closest to goal, and then deliver the ball dangerously to positions which make defenders fret. You need to be a good user, need to be able to get separation and space and need to be able to move things on quickly and dangerously. You should have 1, but the more players who can take this role, the better.

Player Rankings

Jack Martin
Zac Fisher
Lochie O'Brien
Marc Murphy
Samo Petrevski-Seton
Nic Newman
Matthew Kennedy
Michael Gibbons

Inside Midfielder

Key role is first touch, clearance or to make the other team's attempt at the same very hard. An inside midfielder wants to win it in the tough spots and then handball it to a player in a better spot. Sometimes they get some space, and they should be able to use it there, but inside midfielders primary job is possession winning and capitalization. Which is to say, getting it AND giving it. You need 2, with at least 1 relief player.

Player Rankings

Patrick Cripps
Ed Curnow
Will Setterfield
Marc Murphy
Liam Stocker
Jack Silvagni

Balanced Midfielder

Key role is to be first receive. Think of it like a rover, your role is to get the ball under pressure and deliver it to advantage. Key assets here are the ability to create separation so that you can move from contested to uncontested. Balanced midfielders will spend time getting the ball in the clinches, but more importantly, spend more time moving the ball quickly and effectively from contested to uncontested situations. They also need to be putting on pressure and shutting down opponents spread, but offensive capabilities are the key. You need at least 2, having

Player Rankings

Marc Murphy
Sam Walsh
Zac Fisher
Paddy Dow
Samo Petrevski-Seton
David Cuningham
Will Setterfield
Jack Martin
Jack Newnes
Michael Gibbons
Darcy Lang
Cameron Polson
Sam Philp
Sam Ramsay

Wing

Key role is to be the outside option, always positioned just right. Wing is a hard role, it involves reading the play a step and a half ahead, working hard to position, and then often as not, getting burnt as an option. Wings need to be relentless workers, good users , defensively capable, offensively capable and mentally tough. Sometimes a wing just sees no action for ages, as the ball goes nowhere near them, and then, seconds later, they need to be able to pounce on opportunity.

Player Rankings

Jack Newnes
Jack Martin
Lochie O'Brien
Sam Walsh
Zac Fisher
Michael Gibbons
Tom Williamson
Matthew Cottrell

Ruck

Key role is to tap it to advantage, and then make your presence known. It helps to not be a liability on the outside, but the most important secondary role is to be a third inside mid when the ball hits the deck and get it to a better user as soon as you can. Rucks are often thrown around the ground as makeshift key positions, but usually this is a sort of chaos ball look, try and throw the opposition by putting your biggest player in the way.

Player Rankings

Matthew Kreuzer
Marc Pittonet
Tom De Koning
Levi Casboult
Harry McKay

Small Defender

Key role is to be the distributor of the ball coming out of the backline. Small defenders need to be able to cover defensively, but the primary role is to be given the ball and then deliver it effectively and dangerously up the ground. Very good ball users are required, particularly long kicks, good straight line speed and a certain aggressive flair. You should have 2 at least, with another back up rotating in.

Player Rankings

Sam Docherty
Nic Newman
Sam Petrevski-Seton
Kade Simpson
Tom Williamson
Lochie O'Brien
Liam Stocker
Matthew Cottrell

Medium Defender

Key role is to be Mr Fix-it. Fill gaps where you need, be offensive where you need, lockdown where you need. Medium defenders need to be good one on one, good marks and diligent with their ball use. They will naturally be more conservative users, as their role is to give it to the players who are better users. You should only have 1

Player Rankings

Sam Docherty
Lachie Plowman
Caleb Marchbank
Tom Williamson
Harrison MacReadie
Jack Silvagni

Intercept Defender

Key role is to cut off loose opposition forays, gain possession and distribute it. Intercept defenders need to be very good marks, exceptional readers of the play and have very quick responses. They also need to be able to cover defensive holes and be very adaptable. You should have 1, but 2 other players capable of rotating in.

Player Rankings

Caleb Marchbank
Jacob Weitering
Liam Jones
Harrison MacReadie
Levi Casboult
Lachie Plowman


Tall Defender

Key role is to neutralise opposition tall forwards and then effectively distribute the ball to the rebounders. Tall defenders need to be disciplined and staunch players, willing to sit in the hole, wrestle and scrap or kill space as required. They need to be don't lose players, not always win, willing to punch not mark, willing to shepherd the ball towards the boundary, rather than trying to take on the tackler. You need at least 2.

Player Rankings

Liam Jones
Jacob Weitering
Levi Casboult
Caleb Marchbank
Hugh Goddard
Harrison MacReadie
Ben Silvagni


Best 22:

Basically the way I see the composition as:

Small Defender, Tall Defender, Medium Defender
Small Defender, Tall Defender, Intercept Defender
Wingman, Inside Midfielder, Wingman
Small Forward, Tall Forward, Mid-Forward
Small Forward, Tall Forward, Medium Forward
Ruck, Inside Mid, Balanced Mid

Balanced Mid, Best Fit, Best Fit, Best Fit

So the first pass looks like:

B: Docherty, Jones, Docherty
HB:Newman, Weitering, Marchbank
C: Newnes, Cripps, Martin
HF: Betts, C.Curnow, Martin
F: Cuningham, McKay, McGovern
R: Kreuzer, E.Curnow, Murphy
I/C: Walsh, ? , ?, ?

Let's deal with the duplicates

B: Docherty, Jones, Plowman
HB:Newman, Weitering, Marchbank
C: Newnes, Cripps, Martin
HF: Betts, C.Curnow, Fisher
F: Cuningham, McKay, McGovern
R: Kreuzer, E.Curnow, Murphy
I/C: Walsh, ? , ?, ?

Now what to do with our remaining bench.

Well we need another mid rotation,next in line are:

Setterfield
Dow
Petrevski-Seton
Stocker
Gibbons

We also need a small defender rotation and a small forward rotation.

Small Defender:

Petrevski-Seton
Simpson
Williamson
O'Brien

Small Forward:

Gibbons
Petrevski-Seton
Owies
Lang

And also a utility who can play either end:

Casboult
J. Silvagni
De Koning
B. Silvagni

So let's kill 2 birds with 1 stone, Petrevski-Seton is our small defender and balanced mid rotation.

Small forward and Mid rotation goes to Gibbons

Then our tall utility is Casboult

Which leaves us with:

B: Docherty, Jones, Plowman
HB:Newman, Weitering, Marchbank
C: Newnes, Cripps, Martin
HF: Betts, C.Curnow, Fisher
F: Cuningham, McKay, McGovern
R: Kreuzer, E.Curnow, Murphy
I/C: Walsh, Petrevski-Seton, Gibbons, Casboult

The nice thing about this method, is that once you have made your list, you can then change up the positions as required.

So let's say Weitering gets injured. Next tall defender is Casboult, so J.Silvagni comes in as utility.

Or maybe Gibbons has a purple patch as a small forward.

Cuningham goes onto the bench, and maybe, depending how you rate an alternatives form, out of the side.

Maybe McGovern is out, well you move Charlie to the medium role, Casboult to the key role then Silvagni to the bench.

Etc. so forth

 

[BlueView]

Don't need a ruck. TDK will be a jet. Pittonet is a decent backup too.

If history is any guide we’ll find out pretty early on, not banking on the big K playing 23 rounds of footy. Form will dictate obviously will we use opportunity to blood TDK?

 

[DangerousD]

Whereas I would have loved for us to trade for Caldwell this year, I can't see us targeting any young mids, regardless of how much SOS liked them, next year.

We have so many mids right now that could become something or amount to little - Setterfield, Kennedy, Dow, Fisher, Kemp, Stocker, Philp...just for starters.

Next year looks like - 1. Ruckman 2. Goal-kicking small/medium forward. That's it, all being well.

Do you really see them all playing in the midfield though?

I don't see Kennedy as a midfielder at all and see him and Silvagni, competing for the same spot. Stocker has started in defence and whilst everyone bangs on about developing his game, i don't agree thats what's happening. I see Fisher as more of a wingman/half forward and ill reserve my judgement on Dow for another season, although i don't see him winning enough ball to be an out and out mid, but i see him as having decent forward craft.

I really like Setters in the middle and i have no idea where Kemp will fit in with the side.

Overall, just because they were drafted as mids, doesn't mean they will end up there.

 

[Eiffel 65]

If history is any guide we’ll find out pretty early on, not banking on the big K playing 23 rounds of footy. Form will dictate obviously will we use opportunity to blood TDK?

I personally wouldn't. Prefer to give him more time in the VFL against lesser opposition to continue to develop his craft, strength and endurance.

Pittonet will be serviceable at the top level.

TDK will be our main ruckman in time, but still needs another couple of years.

Just look at Tim English. Highly talented, but often struggles against bigger bodied opposition because he doesn't have the strength. He's also 2 years older than TDK.

 

[BlueView]

I personally wouldn't. Prefer to give him more time in the VFL against lesser opposition to continue to develop his craft, strength and endurance.

Pittonet will be serviceable at the top level.

TDK will be our main ruckman in time, but still needs another couple of years.

Just look at Tim English. Highly talented, but often struggles against bigger bodied opposition because he doesn't have the strength. He's also 2 years older than TDK.

Don’t think they will either, I haven’t seen enough of Pittonet to be honest to know whether he’ll be serviceable or not. I doubt whether English will
ever have a physique to compete mano de Mano with the bigger bodies but that won’t be his game, he’ll beat them around the ground.

Could be a hiccup for us but hoping it won’t if TDK is a slow burn. A lot riding on Pittonet if Kreuzer goes down I’m not entirely comfortable with that but hope he stacks up

 

[La Dispute]

Would love if Caldwell comes to us. Under 8 games this year and we could get him for a 3rd imo.

Still some work to be done but i agree, small forward and ruck are 2 glaring holes, unless pinot noir comes on like we hope

I think he’s more than likely to go the way of Taranto and cement himself as a decent midfielder in his own right in year two.

Have a weird feeling GWS might actually look to cycle DeBoer out given how mixed his results are. Giving away a midfielder at the stoppages hasn’t shown to be particularly effective for them, and good teams will find a way to bring their best in the game somehow.

He’d be worth our first next year without question, and he’s completely obtainable pending a leap up the ladder.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Walsh is the only young player who i would bet anything substantial on becoming a gun mid so it wouldn’t surprise me if we are again looking for another at the end of the season. In saying that all of Dow, Setterfield and Stocker I am confident could make it and take the next step. Players like Fisher, SPS look to me as more complementary mids to these other guys, maybe pinch hit here and there.
Kennedy I’ve lost abit of hope in unfortunately.

You would think in the future Cripps and Walsh will play at the very least 75% midfield time so that only leaves enough time for three guys to play 50%. If two of Dow, Stocker, Setterfield, Philp or Kemp show a lot this year (or SOJ becomes a full time tagger) then I imagine we will be much more inclined to look for players who are specialists in other positions and can pinch hit in the midfield. If none show a lot then a midfielder could easily be our biggest priority. It’s going to be an extremely interesting year.

 

[Coona Blues]

Don't need a ruck. TDK will be a jet. Pittonet is a decent backup too.

TDK and Pittonet will be "enough" post Kreuze, with a couple of years between them giving Pittonet a year to stake a claim before TDK comes in to his own enough to be the no. 1./sole ruck. The longevity of Kreuze is an unknown, this may be his last year or he may have two or even three left, being rotated and rested enough to provide silver service when required in a contending side. Levi and maybe Harry provide the chop out come "break glass" options for a couple of years.

The age profile lends itself perfectly to a young immature body being taken in the next draft. Three to four years behind TDK in the maturity stakes would be a wonderful progression. Henry Walsh screams out as that player, fair comparison to Nick Bryan this year in type, brother is a gun on our list so "belongs", with an assist in our hold on his "big" brother.

Just for the record Charlie McKay looks the pick of the father/sons to this stage. I just love the synergy with Hawks signing of Mitch Lewis a couple of years ago.

 

[Eiffel 65]

TDK and Pittonet will be "enough" post Kreuze, with a couple of years between them giving Pittonet a year to stake a claim before TDK comes in to his own enough to be the no. 1./sole ruck. The longevity of Kreuze is an unknown, this may be his last year or he may have two or even three left, being rotated and rested enough to provide silver service when required in a contending side. Levi and maybe Harry provide the chop out come "break glass" options for a couple of years.

The age profile lends itself perfectly to a young immature body being taken in the next draft. Three to four years behind TDK in the maturity stakes would be a wonderful progression. Henry Walsh screams out as that player, fair comparison to Nick Bryan this year in type, brother is a gun on our list so "belongs", with an assist in our hold on his "big" brother.

Just for the record Charlie McKay looks the pick of the father/sons to this stage. I just love the synergy with Hawks signing of Mitch Lewis a couple of years ago.

Watch Russell get Kreuzer back into peak condition. He'll get better with age

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Would love if Caldwell comes to us. Under 8 games this year and we could get him for a 3rd imo.

Still some work to be done but i agree, small forward and ruck are 2 glaring holes, unless pinot noir comes on like we hope

Three out of contract players I'd be targeting end of 2020....
Jye Caldwell - GWS...could be a gun
Miles Poholke - Cows...given no opportunities, huge upside as a medium size forward
Bailey Williams - WCE - ruck/forward, would be a huge asset going forward

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Caldwell - first with change coming back
Papley - future first
Crouch/Williams - dream FA
Wines - who knows? Currency an issue here.

Then look at some undervalued/underperforming VIC boys in the right age bracket, Gallucci/Tucker/Petruccelle etc.

Can’t believe I’m thinking about next years trade period already, we certainly have enough already to improve from within, though these types of deals are typically formed 12-18 months out.

 

[HARKER]

I still think we've got room for one more midfielder, especially given Ed and Murphy will retire in the coming years.

There are a lot of guys on our list that we name as midfielders, but the reality is they're probably better suited to other positions.

Kennedy has arguably shown his best football whilst playing in the forward line. Fisher will hopefully develop into a Gresham type across half forward. SPS to become an elite half back etc.

Keep in mind a few of our mids can act as dangerous targets whilst resting forward. Kemp, Cripps and Setterfield to name a few.

Caldwell is a good one and we know SOS loved him.......and a lot will depend on how next year pans out.......but I'm simply bringing up what I see as being a priority for next year.

That senior mid may not be the priority it was this year. A ruck-man will definitely be on the 'High Priority' list, unless Pittonets' game goes through the roof and TDK is ready for serious AFL minutes. All seems like a little too much to ask for but...???

Papley should still be in high demand but that boat may have sailed.

 

[gbatman]

The great unknown is we're getting into territory where we don't really know what we will need next year. All depends who comes on. Our young mids are old enough to show something now and if they do then we can possibly relax on midfielders unless something big comes up.

Caldwell would have to be on the watch list. Big candidate to be back somewhere in Victoria IMO.

Hoping Pitonett and/or TDK are good enough and I think they are. I'm very much in the line of thinking that you don't need a star ruckman, you just need a ruckman who plays that role and does ruckman tasks really well. I think Pittonett could fit that mould and TDK as well although I think TDK could go a step better as it seems he has genuine football ability.

In saying that I think the time is right to take a young ruckman in the draft (not with a first round pick, never with a first round pick) or find a quality backup if Kreuzer finishes up.

A small forward I think will be high demand for us. Someone who plays hard, puts in effort to pressure and has good closing speed but also uses the ball well when they get it. Papley will have to be high priority again and a first round pick will likely be offered again.

It will be interesting to see what our needs are. I feel we might be chasing upgrades more so than filling holes.

 

[murphster]

Watch Russell get Kreuzer back into peak condition. He'll get better with age

I think you might be right about Kreuz and I think he is going to have a great year this year as Russell will get him purring come Rd1, can see Kreuz playing the majority of the year with maybe a couple of rests later on, I think Casboults ruck work in the second half of last year was really good and certainly did more than hold his own when he went in there, I remember the game where he went in the ruck at the centre bounce and pushed forward after the tap to kick 2 goals in the 3rd Qtr, is very underrated in this department and we could see a lot of him in the ruck this year.

Would have liked for us to take Callum Jamison in this years draft with a late pick to develop alongside TDK but it wasn’t to be so I think there is a good chance of us taking Henry Walsh next year as long as he isn’t going to cost us to much.

 

[murphster]

The great unknown is we're getting into territory where we don't really know what we will need next year. All depends who comes on. Our young mids are old enough to show something now and if they do then we can possibly relax on midfielders unless something big comes up.

Caldwell would have to be on the watch list. Big candidate to be back somewhere in Victoria IMO.

Hoping Pitonett and/or TDK are good enough and I think they are. I'm very much in the line of thinking that you don't need a star ruckman, you just need a ruckman who plays that role and does ruckman tasks really well. I think Pittonett could fit that mould and TDK as well although I think TDK could go a step better as it seems he has genuine football ability.

In saying that I think the time is right to take a young ruckman in the draft (not with a first round pick, never with a first round pick) or find a quality backup if Kreuzer finishes up.

A small forward I think will be high demand for us. Someone who plays hard, puts in effort to pressure and has good closing speed but also uses the ball well when they get it. Papley will have to be high priority again and a first round pick will likely be offered again.

It will be interesting to see what our needs are. I feel we might be chasing upgrades more so than filling holes.

Yeah you hit the nail on the head with the “upgrades”, I think this is what we will be looking at is upgrading some of the lower list spots rather than going after any specific needs, in saying that we still need to find the small forward, spewing we couldn’t get Kossie Pickett, to replace Eddie in the future.

I will be interested to see how Port go over the next year or two as they have really targeted that medium forward/mid type over the last couple of years in Rozee last year and Bergman and Williams this year, will be interested to see how this pans out as a different tact to your traditional small forward role as this could be something we might look at in the next couple of years.

Would love to add Caldwell to our burgeoning list of young mids next year but again will depend on how this year pans out, also I think there could be some fierce competition for some of GWS inside mids from Geelong in next years trade period as they look to plan for the future post Selwood and Danger and the Cats are fully stocked on picks in next years draft to get the deals done including 3 firsts to start with.

I’m far from convinced that Papley will still be an option next year as Sydney will be looking to try and make him happier with life up there possibly by finding his misses a job in Sydney or any number of ways really.

 

[gbatman]

I think our older boys will get regular rests. Looking at how Hawthorn has managed their older players when Russell was in charge, they rested them regularly, I can see Kreuzer and Simpson probably only playing 15-19 games. Murphy and Curnow may also get the odd game off as well.

I think Kreuzer will play around 15 games again. I think we will be comfortable with Pittonett and keen to get a look at TDK. 19 games at the most but I doubt he will play that many.

Murphy, Simpson and Curnow will probably not play if they are sore or down on energy. Probably would have been rested more last season but we didn't have the depth to do it. This season hopefully we will be able to rest these guys for 4 or so games during the season and not suffer the consequences.

I think recruiting a young ruckman is on the cards. Can see us taking Walsh if he's still there with our 2nd or third pick.

My opinion of Kreuzer is that he is biding time until we find someone better. He's not consistent anymore, tears weaker rucks up but gets touched up by the better ruckmen in the league. He's not playing too many games consistently anymore and as a 30 year old ruck who's not the best tapman who as played 12 and 15 games the last few seasons he's probably a bit in the category that I think Betts will be in. An older player, past their best still playing alright but moved aside when we find someone younger, fresher and better which we will no doubt be looking for and with a bit of good work will come up with soon.

Certainly more than serviceable and probably still above average but ruck like small forward is probably an area we can improve.

 

[iAsbestos]

So... List structure.

This is a long post warning.

Spoiler: Long Post

I want to try and break up our list into roles, and then a list of players who can play them by preference.

So, say the top key forward is Charlie, second is Harry, then Gov, Casboult, De Koning, then it gets hairy so you say... Cripps?

The idea is to try and get an idea for depth, through the lens of how we might play

So starting in the forward line:

Small Forward.

Key role is creating scoring opportunities. This requires both offensive pressure, being in dangerous spots, and defensive pressure, killing time and space for defenders to force turnovers in our end of the ground. So you want a forward who has very good game sense, chases, tackles and forces their opponent to be accountable. You need at least 2 on the ground, but as many as 2 other players who can play in this role on rotation

Player rankings:

Eddie Betts
David Cuningham
Michael Gibbons
Jack Martin
Zac Fisher
Samo Petrevski-Seton
Matthew Owies
Marc Murphy
Darcy Lang
Ed Curnow
Cameron Polson

The bolded 2 on top are making my starting 18.

Tall Forward

Key role is being the target for forward entries. Must have a strong marking game, ability to win 1 on 1 contests and create mismatches which attract defensive over-reactions or scoring opportunities. Tall forwards are focal points of attacks and need to have a strong understanding of their team's movement style, and be willing to capitalize on opposition defensive attention, either by pulling it away from teammates, or by forcing packs where smaller players can be in dangerous spots. You need at least 2.

Player rankings:

Charlie Curnow
Harry McKay
Mitch McGovern
Levi Casboult
Patrick Cripps
Jack Silvagni
Tom De Koning
Liam Jones
Ben Silvagni
Finbar O'Dwyer

Medium Forward

Key role is to be a damn match-up headache. A medium forward is a jack of all trades, they aren't a dominant mark, they aren't lightning when goal-side, but you cannot sleep on them. The point is to force opponents to make a defensive choice about how they cover you, having already dedicated their best tall defender (small lockdown defenders are rarer, as the role is actually immensely difficult). So if a team wants to zone out and cover space to kill marking opportunities, your job is to lead hard and wide, and force a defender with you, creating a hole. If they want to play close, your role is to get in the way and let the talls get free. You also are supposed to kick goals whenever you can. Medium forwards usually have some standout athletic trait, power, speed, endurance. Something that makes them a hard match-up. You should only have 1 designated

Player Rankings

Mitch McGovern
Charlie Curnow
Jack Silvagni
Matthew Kennedy
Finbar O'Dwyer

Mid-Forward

Key role is to be a playmaker. You go up the ground, get into dangerous positions as the player who is both outside and closest to goal, and then deliver the ball dangerously to positions which make defenders fret. You need to be a good user, need to be able to get separation and space and need to be able to move things on quickly and dangerously. You should have 1, but the more players who can take this role, the better.

Player Rankings

Jack Martin
Zac Fisher
Lochie O'Brien
Marc Murphy
Samo Petrevski-Seton
Nic Newman
Matthew Kennedy
Michael Gibbons

Inside Midfielder

Key role is first touch, clearance or to make the other team's attempt at the same very hard. An inside midfielder wants to win it in the tough spots and then handball it to a player in a better spot. Sometimes they get some space, and they should be able to use it there, but inside midfielders primary job is possession winning and capitalization. Which is to say, getting it AND giving it. You need 2, with at least 1 relief player.

Player Rankings

Patrick Cripps
Ed Curnow
Will Setterfield
Marc Murphy
Liam Stocker
Jack Silvagni

Balanced Midfielder

Key role is to be first receive. Think of it like a rover, your role is to get the ball under pressure and deliver it to advantage. Key assets here are the ability to create separation so that you can move from contested to uncontested. Balanced midfielders will spend time getting the ball in the clinches, but more importantly, spend more time moving the ball quickly and effectively from contested to uncontested situations. They also need to be putting on pressure and shutting down opponents spread, but offensive capabilities are the key. You need at least 2, having

Player Rankings

Marc Murphy
Sam Walsh
Zac Fisher
Paddy Dow
Samo Petrevski-Seton
David Cuningham
Will Setterfield
Jack Martin
Jack Newnes
Michael Gibbons
Darcy Lang
Cameron Polson
Sam Philp
Sam Ramsay

Wing

Key role is to be the outside option, always positioned just right. Wing is a hard role, it involves reading the play a step and a half ahead, working hard to position, and then often as not, getting burnt as an option. Wings need to be relentless workers, good users , defensively capable, offensively capable and mentally tough. Sometimes a wing just sees no action for ages, as the ball goes nowhere near them, and then, seconds later, they need to be able to pounce on opportunity.

Player Rankings

Jack Newnes
Jack Martin
Lochie O'Brien
Sam Walsh
Zac Fisher
Michael Gibbons
Tom Williamson
Matthew Cottrell

Ruck

Key role is to tap it to advantage, and then make your presence known. It helps to not be a liability on the outside, but the most important secondary role is to be a third inside mid when the ball hits the deck and get it to a better user as soon as you can. Rucks are often thrown around the ground as makeshift key positions, but usually this is a sort of chaos ball look, try and throw the opposition by putting your biggest player in the way.

Player Rankings

Matthew Kreuzer
Marc Pittonet
Tom De Koning
Levi Casboult
Harry McKay

Small Defender

Key role is to be the distributor of the ball coming out of the backline. Small defenders need to be able to cover defensively, but the primary role is to be given the ball and then deliver it effectively and dangerously up the ground. Very good ball users are required, particularly long kicks, good straight line speed and a certain aggressive flair. You should have 2 at least, with another back up rotating in.

Player Rankings

Sam Docherty
Nic Newman
Sam Petrevski-Seton
Kade Simpson
Tom Williamson
Lochie O'Brien
Liam Stocker
Matthew Cottrell

Medium Defender

Key role is to be Mr Fix-it. Fill gaps where you need, be offensive where you need, lockdown where you need. Medium defenders need to be good one on one, good marks and diligent with their ball use. They will naturally be more conservative users, as their role is to give it to the players who are better users. You should only have 1

Player Rankings

Sam Docherty
Lachie Plowman
Caleb Marchbank
Tom Williamson
Harrison MacReadie
Jack Silvagni

Intercept Defender

Key role is to cut off loose opposition forays, gain possession and distribute it. Intercept defenders need to be very good marks, exceptional readers of the play and have very quick responses. They also need to be able to cover defensive holes and be very adaptable. You should have 1, but 2 other players capable of rotating in.

Player Rankings

Caleb Marchbank
Jacob Weitering
Liam Jones
Harrison MacReadie
Levi Casboult
Lachie Plowman


Tall Defender

Key role is to neutralise opposition tall forwards and then effectively distribute the ball to the rebounders. Tall defenders need to be disciplined and staunch players, willing to sit in the hole, wrestle and scrap or kill space as required. They need to be don't lose players, not always win, willing to punch not mark, willing to shepherd the ball towards the boundary, rather than trying to take on the tackler. You need at least 2.

Player Rankings

Liam Jones
Jacob Weitering
Levi Casboult
Caleb Marchbank
Hugh Goddard
Harrison MacReadie
Ben Silvagni


Best 22:

Basically the way I see the composition as:

Small Defender, Tall Defender, Medium Defender
Small Defender, Tall Defender, Intercept Defender
Wingman, Inside Midfielder, Wingman
Small Forward, Tall Forward, Mid-Forward
Small Forward, Tall Forward, Medium Forward
Ruck, Inside Mid, Balanced Mid

Balanced Mid, Best Fit, Best Fit, Best Fit

So the first pass looks like:

B: Docherty, Jones, Docherty
HB:Newman, Weitering, Marchbank
C: Newnes, Cripps, Martin
HF: Betts, C.Curnow, Martin
F: Cuningham, McKay, McGovern
R: Kreuzer, E.Curnow, Murphy
I/C: Walsh, ? , ?, ?

Let's deal with the duplicates

B: Docherty, Jones, Plowman
HB:Newman, Weitering, Marchbank
C: Newnes, Cripps, Martin
HF: Betts, C.Curnow, Fisher
F: Cuningham, McKay, McGovern
R: Kreuzer, E.Curnow, Murphy
I/C: Walsh, ? , ?, ?

Now what to do with our remaining bench.

Well we need another mid rotation,next in line are:

Setterfield
Dow
Petrevski-Seton
Stocker
Gibbons

We also need a small defender rotation and a small forward rotation.

Small Defender:

Petrevski-Seton
Simpson
Williamson
O'Brien

Small Forward:

Gibbons
Petrevski-Seton
Owies
Lang

And also a utility who can play either end:

Casboult
J. Silvagni
De Koning
B. Silvagni

So let's kill 2 birds with 1 stone, Petrevski-Seton is our small defender and balanced mid rotation.

Small forward and Mid rotation goes to Gibbons

Then our tall utility is Casboult

Which leaves us with:

B: Docherty, Jones, Plowman
HB:Newman, Weitering, Marchbank
C: Newnes, Cripps, Martin
HF: Betts, C.Curnow, Fisher
F: Cuningham, McKay, McGovern
R: Kreuzer, E.Curnow, Murphy
I/C: Walsh, Petrevski-Seton, Gibbons, Casboult

The nice thing about this method, is that once you have made your list, you can then change up the positions as required.

So let's say Weitering gets injured. Next tall defender is Casboult, so J.Silvagni comes in as utility.

Or maybe Gibbons has a purple patch as a small forward.

Cuningham goes onto the bench, and maybe, depending how you rate an alternatives form, out of the side.

Maybe McGovern is out, well you move Charlie to the medium role, Casboult to the key role then Silvagni to the bench.

Etc. so forth

Wowe amazing analysis

 

[gbatman]

Yeah you hit the nail on the head with the “upgrades”, I think this is what we will be looking at is upgrading some of the lower list spots rather than going after any specific needs, in saying that we still need to find the small forward, spewing we couldn’t get Kossie Pickett, to replace Eddie in the future.

I will be interested to see how Port go over the next year or two as they have really targeted that medium forward/mid type over the last couple of years in Rozee last year and Bergman and Williams this year, will be interested to see how this pans out as a different tact to your traditional small forward role as this could be something we might look at in the next couple of years.

Would love to add Caldwell to our burgeoning list of young mids next year but again will depend on how this year pans out, also I think there could be some fierce competition for some of GWS inside mids from Geelong in next years trade period as they look to plan for the future post Selwood and Danger and the Cats are fully stocked on picks in next years draft to get the deals done including 3 firsts to start with.

I’m far from convinced that Papley will still be an option next year as Sydney will be looking to try and make him happier with life up there possibly by finding his misses a job in Sydney or any number of ways really.

It's a competitive industry no doubt and there are always challenges finding the players we are looking for, Pickett and Papley would have been a nice get but reality is we still finished down the bottom, still have retirements of key players looming and are still building our list so hitting the draft again was probably a good thing.

If we got Papley we'd be right for small forwards but still have concerns over our future retirements and midfield depth so we missed one and dealt with another issue which is good IMO and honestly they were more pressing issues. Certainly quicker to develop small forwards than it is midfielders.

I don't think it's a good idea to sell off a premium picks until you're up there. Essendon have. They sold the farm and weren't even a finals team. We haven't sold premium picks for mature talent yet and hopefully we can push into finals before we do which I think is the right thing to do. Collingwood being another example of too big too quick, they have built the list without enough thought, just picking best available and selling a lot of high picks and now their window is open and boy they have got close but they are in their window missing position players and are struggling to bring them in because they didn't do it early days. Us with the Judd trade is another prime example, going too big too quick too early and built a finals team full of holes we could not fill.

I think we'll be ok for small forwards next season. Who we have is good enough to get us into finals if the rest of the team is functioning well. It's probably not good enough yet to take us really deep into finals or to win a grand final but we have time to sort that out. IMO that's good enough at this stage but we will be looking to upgrade the players we have here.

No team wants to lose good players and Swans have Papley contracted and playing really well. It's a wonder they entertained a trade at all to be honest. My thinking is if they are were willing to trade they may be willing to trade again but are well within their rights to just say no. We should try and if they say no we go to the draft or next best player.

First pick next year will likely be a small forward type in one way or another.

I don't think it matters about the size of your forwards so much. If they have good skills, good closing speed, good game sense and are willing to apply quality pressure and be physical you will get plenty out of them. This is how I will be judging our small forwards. Don't have to kick goals, just have to be tough, close in on the footy quick, get to contests, pressure well, tackle well and make the most of their opportunities.

You're probably right about Caldwell, will be plenty of teams after him and we may be chasing other types more.

Certainly upgrade is the key word. We have players to fill every position on the field and every role and do it adequately. But who do we want a better version of who? Better ruckman, better small forward? Maybe we want a gun centerman still. It's going to be interesting to see where we get come the end of 2020.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Newness v Ellis
Any comments? Who is better?
How does it reflect on the dearly departed's recruiting strategy?
Is Newness a downgrade on Ellis?

 

[Manhattanite]

Newness v Ellis
Any comments? Who is better?
How does it reflect on the dearly departed's recruiting strategy?
Is Newness a downgrade on Ellis?

Newnes may well turn out decent depth for us but let’s be honest here - no other club was chasing Newnes and even the Saints weren’t keen in retaining him (as he discloses in his article yesterday) and he was cheap meaning other clubs really didn’t want him even at a low price. Whereas Ellis had a few suitors and if the Suns hadn’t overpaid for him he would have had 3-5 clubs willing to sign him at market price. So the market absolutely considers Ellis better.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[thylacine60]

that is seriously no way to judge a player's potential to our club..........fmd..........