Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

[HARKER]

Did you watch the vfl final game yesterday
all 3 were in the best players Butler 4 goals Menadue 2 goals and Markov off half back

Not according to someone registering the best players.
That doesn't matter though as Menadue and Markov would have next to no value for the CFC.
Butler may though but only because we have little else to play that role....but all being well, that shall change.

Polson wasn't SOS's call - you might find that a few of these types were Bolton's types.

No harm done....maybe, maybe not.
Polsons kicking has only got worse, unless he's endeavouring to kick some sort of bumping chaos balls going forward.
I didn't think we'd be offering those sorts of contracts to players with so many deficiencies any more....of well.

 

[Mister Carlton]

Did you watch the vfl final game yesterday

all 3 were in the best players Butler 4 goals Menadue 2 goals and Markov off half back

We don’t need trash.

 

[thylacine60]

We don’t need trash.

gotta ask why posters are prominent here offering fringe players like we're some sort of charity case - we're ok thanks - if we want them, we'll take them.....

 

[JustaBattler]

View attachment 738365

Not according to someone registering the best players.
That doesn't matter though as Menadue and Markov would have next to no value for the CFC.
Butler may though but only because we have little else to play that role....but all being well, that shall change.




No harm done....maybe, maybe not.
Polsons kicking has only got worse, unless he's endeavouring to kick some sort of bumping chaos balls going forward.
I didn't think we'd be offering those sorts of contracts to players with so many deficiencies any more....of well.

Garlett not coming on is disappointing - especially combined with Pickett's retirement...

SOJ/Williamson/McCreadie are examples of spec picks that looked like they had the goods - SOJ has improved a lot this year - maybe more than anyone could have expected - Williamson would have been handy and McCreadie - what is going on there?

 

[Aphrodite]

Did you watch the vfl final game yesterday

all 3 were in the best players Butler 4 goals Menadue 2 goals and Markov off half back

We’re not the Reject Shop.

Take it to your own Board.

 

[HARKER]

Garlett not coming on is disappointing - especially combined with Pickett's retirement...

SOJ/Williamson/McCreadie are examples of spec picks that looked like they had the goods - SOJ has improved a lot this year - maybe more than anyone could have expected - Williamson would have been handy and McCreadie - what is going on there?

I agree. Very disappointed in Garlett but he did look like a fish out of water at times.
Wanted to see what he'd produce under Teague, but it wasn't to be.

Macreadie? Said it early in the year when saw him get out-thought, out-positioned and out-muscled by a 180cm player in the VFL.
Sadly was only one little thing but my expectations for him dropped dramatically after one little incident.
If he makes it, then great as he does have good attributes but it's hard to un-see what one sees at times.

 

[Prem17]

Why don't we simply utilise ECurnow for another couple of years, easing the way for the likes of Dow, Setterfield and Fisher and train our sights elsewhere?
Dow and Setterfield are inside mids as is Stocker.

Not sure what the net result would be of handing over two first rounders for Wines.
Sounds good on face value and for attaining a good player, but somehow I feel we could do better.

Fair enough points too but just how long are we going to wait?
Dow is probably 2 - 3 years away from being elite, Setterfield maybe 2, Fisher could explode any second if he has a good preseason and Stocker has played just 5 games. Not saying you are wrong but there is realistically a 2 year wait before any of those guys are elite on a consistent week in week out basis.
A midfield of Cripps, Wines, Murphy and Ed as the seniors lets all of the younger guys wreak havoc on the outside in the meantime.

 

[HARKER]

Fair enough points too but just how long are we going to wait?
Dow is probably 2 - 3 years away from being elite, Setterfield maybe 2, Fisher could explode any second if he has a good preseason and Stocker has played just 5 games. Not saying you are wrong but there is realistically a 2 year wait before any of those guys are elite on a consistent week in week out basis.
A midfield of Cripps, Wines, Murphy and Ed as the seniors lets all of the younger guys wreak havoc on the outside in the meantime.

I don't know whether I'm wrong nor right any more than anyone else here.
It's just a sense that tells me that as good as Wines may be given opportunity, we may not be maxxing out two first round picks that we may have to pay for him. If it was only the pick #8 then fine.........let's do it, but to unload the 2020 first as well, worries me as you never know how things may change and what may be available later with that pick whether by way of draft or trade. A second coming back doesn't count as it won't for Essendon who gave up two firsts for Shiel.

The other part to that is; Have we given up on the inside mids we already have? I can't see that being the case and for that reason I can't see Wines being a 'must-have' for us this year.

I'll go a bit further - If Wines did join us, what does our first-starting midfield look like and where else do the pieces get moved around to make the whole function? It will be better no doubt, but I just don't see it being so much better and not two first rounders better.

 

[JustaBattler]

I agree. Very disappointed in Garlett but he did look like a fish out of water at times.
Wanted to see what he'd produce under Teague, but it wasn't to be.

Macreadie? Said it early in the year when saw him get out-thought, out-positioned and out-muscled by a 180cm player in the VFL.
Sadly was only one little thing but my expectations for him dropped dramatically after one little incident.
If he makes it, then great as he does have good attributes but it's hard to un-see what one sees at times.

and I'm guessing you haven't seen anything much since to change your mind...

 

[HARKER]

and I'm guessing you haven't seen anything much since to change your mind...

Macreadie had a few OK games, but no standouts that made him look like a boss. Rider - I did not see all the VFL games.
All of a sudden Macreadie didn't look nimble any more....he didn't fly for marks...he looked for an easy way out.
It may have just been a bad year after so many injuries. I really want it to be just that.

 

[JustaBattler]

Macreadie had a few OK games, but no standouts that made him look like a boss. Rider - I did not see all the VFL games.
All of a sudden Macreadie didn't look nimble any more....he didn't fly for marks...he looked for an easy way out.
It may have just been a bad year after so many injuries. I really want it to be just that.

Nothing like watching live at the ground - I can't.

Well (with a bit of luck on the injury side ree Williamson ) worst case is 2/3 right as far as these three goes - not bad I guess - would like to see a few more 2/3 right with some small fast types on boarded - fingers and toes crossed.

 

[Prem17]

I don't know whether I'm wrong nor right any more than anyone else here.
It's just a sense that tells me that as good as Wines may be given opportunity, we may not be maxxing out two first round picks that we may have to pay for him. If it was only the pick #8 then fine.........let's do it, but to unload the 2020 first as well, worries me as you never know how things may change and what may be available later with that pick whether by way of draft or trade. A second coming back doesn't count as it won't for Essendon who gave up two firsts for Shiel.

The other part to that is; Have we given up on the inside mids we already have? I can't see that being the case and for that reason I can't see Wines being a 'must-have' for us this year.

I'll go a bit further - If Wines did join us, what does our first-starting midfield look like and where else do the pieces get moved around to make the whole function? It will be better no doubt, but I just don't see it being so much better and not two first rounders better.

I hear what you're saying but I am looking at it like this;

SPS and Docherty at HB.
O'Brien and Dow on the wings.
Fisher at hf with Murphy/Setterfield/Walsh/Ed/Gibbons/DeLuca/Stocker/Martin? rotating through midfield and hf roles.
Cripps in the centre, Walsh and Wines at the bounce.
I don't see that side as having speed issues.
There's speed in the middle, with speed from half back and speed through hf.

 

[HARKER]

I hear what you're saying but I am looking at it like this;

SPS and Docherty at HB.
O'Brien and Dow on the wings.
Fisher at hf with Murphy/Setterfield/Walsh/Ed/Gibbons/DeLuca/Stocker/Martin? rotating through midfield and hf roles.
Cripps in the centre, Walsh and Wines at the bounce.
I don't see that side as having speed issues.
There's speed in the middle, with speed from half back and speed through hf.

Let's use your example and play it out. No right nor wrong but let's see where the pieces go.

First used starting mids are Cripps, Wines and Walsh. Where does ECurnow go?
We've already seen that he hasn't another home. Does Wines simply take his place and how far advanced would we be for that to come about?

Cripps will always be our go-to clearance mid. What can wines achieve next to him?
Coniglio had more strings to his bow and could go forward and kick goals. This is not Wines. What does Wines do when he's not in the centre?

It's hard exercise to play out and the only way one can do it really is in ones mind and no matter how I look I come back to Wines being good but not what we really need and then that question comes up again; Can we do more for the whole with our two first rounders?

 

[Eiffel 65]

I hear what you're saying but I am looking at it like this;

SPS and Docherty at HB.
O'Brien and Dow on the wings.
Fisher at hf with Murphy/Setterfield/Walsh/Ed/Gibbons/DeLuca/Stocker/Martin? rotating through midfield and hf roles.
Cripps in the centre, Walsh and Wines at the bounce.
I don't see that side as having speed issues.
There's speed in the middle, with speed from half back and speed through hf.

SPS should be playing as a balanced mid. Playing at half back out of necessity more than anything.

Dow in the centre bounces too.

If you have Wines and Cripps at the same centre bounce, all it takes is for the opposition ruckman to tap the ball into space and we're done. We'll get killed on the spread.

Trust me, we'll be a yard off the pace if we put too many big bodied mids on the park at the same time.

 

[The Bighouse]

Macreadie had a few OK games, but no standouts that made him look like a boss. Rider - I did not see all the VFL games.
All of a sudden Macreadie didn't look nimble any more....he didn't fly for marks...he looked for an easy way out.
It may have just been a bad year after so many injuries. I really want it to be just that.

Here’s hoping but from the limited VFL coverage I saw, Macreadie looked very ordinary (devoid of confidence, disinterested or lacking nous, not sure) & short of AFL qualities.

Hopefully the new physch + some AR magic can renew his approach to football & Teague, Amos & co. (new NB coach) can get the potential back on track on the park.

 

[Red Bull]

Mitchell Lewis Hodge Sewell Burgoyne
The guts of the hawthorn machine
Not a lot of breathtaking pace there
But footballers
Real footballers
Tough footballers
Class footballers
September footballers
They were complimented on the outside by Smith and Hill.

Cripps Murphy Curnow Dow Walsh Stocker.
These are the players i see as the guts of the Carlton machine as things stand.
On the outside i see Setterfield Fisher and O’Brien (SPS as our quality exit in defence)
Murphy has a year left and Curnow maybe similar, we need Dow Walsh and Stocker overtaking the 2 veterans asap but they’re not seasoned enough yet.
We need another experienced top shelf midfielder.
No use crying over Coniglio, that’s yesterday’s news so we need to trade.
The 2 names being discussed here are Wines and B.Crouch.
Both, whilst not perfect, fit the bill so we should go hard.

 

[DangerousD]

Polson wasn't SOS's call - you might find that a few of these types were Bolton's types.

Sorry JAB can you elaborate on this?

SOS is the list manager and is in charge of recruiting. Im not sure how you can say it wasn't SOS's call.
The pick and the extension rest with him, nothing wrong with the pick imo and the only negative regarding the extension, was that it was 2 years. I hope we aren't going down the road of, praising SOS for all the good players and trying to observe him of the crap ones.

 

[DangerousD]

eh??

Not sure what you are eh-ing at there, was a pretty clear statement.

 

[DangerousD]

Think it was more related to inter-club player movement mid-season being refused by the clubs, and rightly so.

The poster i quoted, had us carrying over a pick for mid season (not sure if they know its not happening), i wonder now, is there much point carrying a list spot up until the new trade period (just before the season starts), as they players overlooked in November have had no competition to enhance their reputation or to prove anything more.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

FWIW the AFL have already abolished the mid season draft, there is a pre season draft in March or thereabouts.

eh??

Not sure what you are eh-ing at there, was a pretty clear statement.

Not sure what your on about.....could you send a link to an article or statement that reports that "the AFL have already abolished the mid season draft". I can't find anything. Not doubting your statement, just nothing I can find to support it.

Much appreciated in anticipation of your response on behalf of Blues supporters.

 

[DangerousD]

Not sure what your on about.....could you send a link to an article or statement that reports that "the AFL have already abolished the mid season draft". I can't find anything. Not doubting your statement, just nothing I can find to support it.

Much appreciated in anticipation of your response on behalf of Blues supporters.

Whilst the article doesn't give full clarity, this is what i am referring to.

Mid-season trade period scrapped in favour of pre-season window

Tim Watson with the breaking news this morning.

www.sen.com.au

 

[Doro]

Mitchell Lewis Hodge Sewell Burgoyne
The guts of the hawthorn machine
Not a lot of breathtaking pace there
But footballers
Real footballers
Tough footballers
Class footballers
September footballers
They were complimented on the outside by Smith and Hill.

Cripps Murphy Curnow Dow Walsh Stocker.
These are the players i see as the guts of the Carlton machine as things stand.
On the outside i see Setterfield Fisher and O’Brien (SPS as our quality exit in defence)
Murphy has a year left and Curnow maybe similar, we need Dow Walsh and Stocker overtaking the 2 veterans asap but they’re not seasoned enough yet.
We need another experienced top shelf midfielder.
No use crying over Coniglio, that’s yesterday’s news so we need to trade.
The 2 names being discussed here are Wines and B.Crouch.
Both, whilst not perfect, fit the bill so we should go hard.

Just having a look at contested possession stats for this year and we aren't that far away from some of the contenders in terms of numbers. 3131 C.Ps for the season.
Cats- 3304
Eagles- 2993
Tigers - 3028
Lions - 3249
Pies - 3235

It's an area we were generally competitive in, and should hopefully improve as Dow, Walsh etc mature. For me our biggest weakness has been skill errors leading to turnover. The point of debate is how much Wines/ Crouch improve us for the price we fork out.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Whilst the article doesn't give full clarity, this is what i am referring to.

Mid-season trade period scrapped in favour of pre-season window

Tim Watson with the breaking news this morning.

www.sen.com.au

Draft, not trade period.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Whilst the article doesn't give full clarity, this is what i am referring to.

Mid-season trade period scrapped in favour of pre-season window

Tim Watson with the breaking news this morning.

www.sen.com.au

Okay, thanks for the link dd, much appreciated.
From what I read from that, they are referring to the trade, not the draft....but understandable how it may be interpreted

 

[DangerousD]

Okay, thanks for the link dd, much appreciated.
From what I read from that, they are referring to the trade, not the draft....but understandable how it may be interpreted

Upon reading it, its possible it is seperate to the mid season draft, it also adds another layer of list management to an already busy schedule. I thought there were more reports on the changes, but i couldn't find any. So we will soon see.