Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

[JustaBattler]

Sorry JAB can you elaborate on this?

SOS is the list manager and is in charge of recruiting. Im not sure how you can say it wasn't SOS's call.
The pick and the extension rest with him, nothing wrong with the pick imo and the only negative regarding the extension, was that it was 2 years. I hope we aren't going down the road of, praising SOS for all the good players and trying to observe him of the crap ones.

Nothing to say sorry about DD.

Cant remember the thread or poster(s) but a it was mentioned that Polson was a favoured player of Boltons - hence the extension of 2yrs last year ...

Pretty obvious (to me anyway) that Bolton had his favourites AND out of favourites - easily seen by changes that Teague made - immediately - eg Kennedy

 

[Blugazi]

I've had a bit of go at playing around with trade/draft permutations.

Carlton’s 2020 first round pick > GC
Jack Martin + Pick 17 > CARL

Pick 8 + Pick 17 > ADE
Brad Crouch + Eddie Betts + Pick 26 > CARL
- A similar trade could occur for Papley. We also may choose to go with Sam Gray over Betts.

Pick 67 > SYD
Darcy Cameron > CARL

Out: Garlett, Schumacher, Kerr, Thomas, Fasolo, Lobbe, Lang/Macreadie (I'm assuming both are in limbo until we work out how many we bring in during the trade period) , LeBois (r)
In: Martin, Crouch, Betts, Cameron, 26, 39, 44

Draft:
Pick 26 options...
- Trent Rivers (HBF/MID): I think we are still lacking another quality half-back, although SPS may fill this going forward. Regardless Rivers has also proven to be a handy onballer.
- Cooper Stephens (MID): A quality mid. May not be necessarily if we grab a Crouch, however may be more relevant if we pick-up Papley instead.
- Sam De Koning (TALL UTL): Another De Koning couldn't hurt. Like his brother he can play ruck or forward, however has made a name for himself playing as a tall backman. A good replacement for Jones down the track.
- Elijah Taylor (SMALL FWD): A raw small forward option
Pick 39 Ben Sokol - Purely based on the recent bluemour, and the need for ready made goal scoring power.
Pick 44 Archi Manton (F/S) - A good replacement for Kerr.

Best 22 for 2020
B: Nic Newman, Liam Jones, Caleb Marchbank
HB: Sam Docherty, Jacob Weitering, Kade Simpson
C: Marc Murphy, Patrick Cripps, Sam Petrevski-Seton
HF: Jack Martin, Harry McKay, Zac Fisher
F: Mitch McGovern, Charlie Curnow, Eddie Betts
Foll: Matthew Kreuzer, Brad Crouch, Sam Walsh
I/C: David Cuningham, Jack Silvagni, Levi Casboult, Ed Curnow

Reserves
B: Tom Williamson, Lachie Plowman, Ben Silvagni
HB: Matt Cottrell, Hugh Goddard, Trent Rivers
C: Lochie O'Brien, Will Setterfield, Michael Gibbons
HF: Josh Deluca, Tom De Koning, Cam Polson
F: Matt Kennedy, Ben Sokol, Matthew Owies
Foll: Darcy Cameron, Paddy Dow, Liam Stocker
I/C: Darcy Lang/Harrison Macreadie, Andrew Phillips, Finbar O'Dwyer, Archi Manton

 

[Red Bull]

Just having a look at contested possession stats for this year and we aren't that far away from some of the contenders in terms of numbers. 3131 C.Ps for the season.
Cats- 3304
Eagles- 2993
Tigers - 3028
Lions - 3249
Pies - 3235

It's an area we were generally competitive in, and should hopefully improve as Dow, Walsh etc mature. For me our biggest weakness has been skill errors leading to turnover. The point of debate is how much Wines/ Crouch improve us for the price we fork out.

I’m not a stats man Doro but i would hazard a guess that the vast majority of those C.P’s would be down to Cripps.
The addition of an experienced top shelf mid would have many benefits including,
Sharing the workload and taking ALL the expectation off Cripps.
Adding longevity to Cripps career, the sheer weight of his workload is to great atm with the youth not seasoned enough yet.
Atm a hard tag on Cripps severely restricts us, a senior partner in crime would alleviate this.
The price in draft picks to bring in another experienced quality mid has been budgeted for, we’ve done our drafting and another 18yo in a weakish draft does nothing for us.
It’s time to trade.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

It's time to trade but for the right players.

A gun 18yo small forward does plenty for us. Another skinny 18yo mid, pass.

 

[Omega Blue]

Perfect player for us would be Tim Taranto, would give 2019 first and 2020 first for him.

 

[Sammo63]

Perfect player for us would be Tim Taranto, would give 2019 first and 2020 first for him.

Amen


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[RoyalParade]

Whilst the article doesn't give full clarity, this is what i am referring to.

Mid-season trade period scrapped in favour of pre-season window

Tim Watson with the breaking news this morning.

www.sen.com.au

That just says they aren't going ahead with the proposed mid season trade period.

Mid season draft still going ahead.

 

[Prem17]

Let's use your example and play it out. No right nor wrong but let's see where the pieces go.

First used starting mids are Cripps, Wines and Walsh. Where does ECurnow go?
We've already seen that he hasn't another home. Does Wines simply take his place and how far advanced would we be for that to come about?

Cripps will always be our go-to clearance mid. What can wines achieve next to him?
Coniglio had more strings to his bow and could go forward and kick goals. This is not Wines. What does Wines do when he's not in the centre?

It's hard exercise to play out and the only way one can do it really is in ones mind and no matter how I look I come back to Wines being good but not what we really need and then that question comes up again; Can we do more for the whole with our two first rounders?

There's no point worrying about what Coniglio might have brought to the team because he will not play for us, hence the need to move forward and look for alternatives.
IMO, what Wines may lack in goalkicking, others will make up for after another preseason under their belts, a full summer of planning for Teague's game plan, etc.
Gibbons kicked 16 goals in his first season, 21 games but is treated with scepticism from some? I don't get that.
As for Ed, he's a smart footballer with elite running ability and he will always be in the midfield mix.
A strong midfield has players playing roles other than their preferred starting positions

Let's use your example and play it out. No right nor wrong but let's see where the pieces go.

First used starting mids are Cripps, Wines and Walsh. Where does ECurnow go?
We've already seen that he hasn't another home. Does Wines simply take his place and how far advanced would we be for that to come about?

Cripps will always be our go-to clearance mid. What can wines achieve next to him?
Coniglio had more strings to his bow and could go forward and kick goals. This is not Wines. What does Wines do when he's not in the centre?

It's hard exercise to play out and the only way one can do it really is in ones mind and no matter how I look I come back to Wines being good but not what we really need and then that question comes up again; Can we do more for the whole with our two first rounders?

There's no point worrying about what Coniglio could have added to the team. He resigned with GWS so we need to move on to player B.
As for Ed, like every other player, he would have to adapt if we recruited Wines.
He's an elite runner so I am sure he will find a role.
We can't just knock back elite players just because player x might be disadvantaged in the team.
By the same reasoning, would you knock back McLuggage because it might hurt Dow?
Cripps needs another mid to help him.
It would benefit not only Cripps but Murphy and Walsh as well.
Whether that player will be Wines or not remains to be seen.
Who's to say we don't have a crack at Parker or Fyfe?
Anything is possible.
As they say, the first step is always the hardest.

 

[TheKITC]

Bloody hope we go after Sam Gray. Shocked to learn he's on the outer at Port and will come much cheaper than Papley and we could afford to spend overs in our salary cap compared to Port or other suitors.

He's a crafty little bugger, has a knack for kicking clutch goals, making something out of nothing, looks clean, can also go through the middle and will come much cheaper. What's the actual knock on him? He's short? Port need cap room?

Papley for Pick 8 is big overs for mine, which is probably what it will take, maybe with a 3rd coming back... still overs for a small forward.

 

[AB_Blue]

We cannot afford to give up 2 firsts for Paps

Pick 8 is fair value if not slight overs, contracted or not



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[Blue__Balls]

Wonder how Ed would go in a small defender role...

 

[Lace_Out]

Wouldn't want him in defense with his skills and lack of burst speed.

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[Doro]

I’m not a stats man Doro but i would hazard a guess that the vast majority of those C.P’s would be down to Cripps.
The addition of an experienced top shelf mid would have many benefits including,
Sharing the workload and taking ALL the expectation off Cripps.
Adding longevity to Cripps career, the sheer weight of his workload is to great atm with the youth not seasoned enough yet.
Atm a hard tag on Cripps severely restricts us, a senior partner in crime would alleviate this.
The price in draft picks to bring in another experienced quality mid has been budgeted for, we’ve done our drafting and another 18yo in a weakish draft does nothing for us.
It’s time to trade.

339 contested possessions for Cripps, 5th in the league, though probably would have knocked Oliver off number one with the extra 2 games. I don't mind if we do trade, just questioning best fit. I know you don't like stats but this story was interesting about the importance of post stoppage contested footy, the better teams at 'mopping up' are largely at the pointy end of the ladder.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...s/news-story/49427784c1b396d54bf3628dfd7767b4

 

[Jimmyonesix]

SPS should be playing as a balanced mid. Playing at half back out of necessity more than anything.

Dow in the centre bounces too.

If you have Wines and Cripps at the same centre bounce, all it takes is for the opposition ruckman to tap the ball into space and we're done. We'll get killed on the spread.

Trust me, we'll be a yard off the pace if we put too many big bodied mids on the park at the same time.

I watched the Brisbane game again and the bulldogs game - one thing Dow looks dangerous with his speed around the centre clearances - if he tidied up a bit and a full pre season I think he make our centre clearance better .. he finds his own ball at clearances with pace which is Half the battle IMO

 

[Lace_Out]

I like Dow, will end up a beauty IMHO
Powerful and dynamic is how I envision his future.

He has a huge heart and tires himself out trying to do too much, as he becomes a more experienced/smarter player the energy will be better spent, with more support around him. Get excited!

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[Eiffel 65]

I watched the Brisbane game again and the bulldogs game - one thing Dow looks dangerous with his speed around the centre clearances - if he tidied up a bit and a full pre season I think he make our centre clearance better .. he finds his own ball at clearances with pace which is Half the battle IMO

I reckon his ball handling will tidy up with improvement in his endurance.

A lot of younger players tend to have slightly sloppy disposal because they've exhausted themselves in the contest prior to disposing of the ball.

If you look at Dow kick the ball in the warm ups, he hits pretty much all of his targets.

Trust me, he'll be fine with improved endurance and a bit more experience at the level.

 

[BRADLESTICKS]

Scott Jones or Darcy Cameron as a back up for Kreuzer next year, from the little i've seen of Jones i would probably slightly favour him. Any thoughts from WAFL watchers on his performances this year ?

 

[DangerousD]

Cant remember the thread or poster(s) but a it was mentioned that Polson was a favoured player of Boltons - hence the extension of 2yrs last year ...

Pretty obvious (to me anyway) that Bolton had his favourites AND out of favourites - easily seen by changes that Teague made - immediately - eg Kennedy

I full agree with the above, well not fully. I agree that he was one of Boltons favourites and it seemed he was picked often, when he didn't deserve to, its no surprise that when Teague came on board that he wasn't sighted. I also agree Bolton had his favourites but i can't agree with Bolton having any input into which players to select (he could have given types he wanted) and i would be pissed off if coaches are telling list management how long to extend players contracts for.

Thats not how i think a club should operate and i really hope we aren't taking list management instructions from coaches.

 

[BringBackSimmo]

It's time to trade but for the right players.

A gun 18yo small forward does plenty for us. Another skinny 18yo mid, pass.

Cody Weightman perhaps?

Anyone know anything about Josh D’Intinosante? Seems as if he has kicked a bunch of goals for Northern Knights this year

draftcentral.com.au

This domain may be for sale!

afl.draftcentral.com.au

 

[DangerousD]

339 contested possessions for Cripps, 5th in the league, though probably would have knocked Oliver off number one with the extra 2 games. I don't mind if we do trade, just questioning best fit. I know you don't like stats but this story was interesting about the importance of post stoppage contested footy, the better teams at 'mopping up' are largely at the pointy end of the ladder.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...s/news-story/49427784c1b396d54bf3628dfd7767b4

Does it really show that much though?

The top 3 are 1, 4 and 6th on the ladder, with the next 4 failing to miss the finals, WC who are 17th on the list are last seasons premiers and imo will make top 4 this year. Richmond, who i think will win the GF are 9th. Its an interesting talking point though.

 

[Doro]

Does it really show that much though?

The top 3 are 1, 4 and 6th on the ladder, with the next 4 failing to miss the finals, WC who are 17th on the list are last seasons premiers and imo will make top 4 this year. Richmond, who i think will win the GF are 9th. Its an interesting talking point though.

The bottom end is a pretty close correlation with W.C the obvious outlier. Looking at our brand it might explain a little why we've generally been at least break even in stoppages but not winning as many games.

 

[My Hat]

Slightly confused by the concern about what happens to Ed if we add another quality inside mid to the team. Pretty sure Ed is still the #1 tagger on our list.

 

[bmaurizio]

It's time to trade but for the right players.

A gun 18yo small forward does plenty for us. Another skinny 18yo mid, pass.

If we go to the draft, I’ve got my fingers crossed we can snare Cameron Taheny exciting, very fast a such a gifted smal 184 cm I think.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Perfect player for us would be Tim Taranto, would give 2019 first and 2020 first for him.

Didn’t he just sign Long term

 

[Faz 2000]

Slightly confused by the concern about what happens to Ed if we add another quality inside mid to the team. Pretty sure Ed is still the #1 tagger on our list.

Ed right now is in a role “above” himself. He’s just not a #2, #3 midfielder at AFL level. It will be great for the side if he gets pushed down the pecking order and can focus more on being a stopper, when his fitness and ball-winning is a nice bonus rather than relied upon.