Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

[Sector 7G]

Yes, I get that he is contracted and if anyone knows that you need to pay overs for extracting contracted players, it is us Carlton supporters. 2 firsts that included 8 would be stupidity. A contracted Charlie Cameron was traded for pick 12 and he has just got his AA jacket. Papley isn't at his level.

2019 Papley is the same age and significantly better than the 2017 Cameron. Lions have been fortunate that Cameron has kicked on.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I'm not completely over this thread, but anyone who is suggesting we part with 2 firsts for Tom Papley seriously needs their head read. That's selling the farm overs. 2 firsts get's you players like Adam Treloar, not Tom Papley.

Yes, I get that he is contracted and if anyone knows that you need to pay overs for extracting contracted players, it is us Carlton supporters. 2 firsts that included 8 would be stupidity. A contracted Charlie Cameron was traded for pick 12 and he has just got his AA jacket. Papley isn't at his level.

8 would be big overs as it is for mine and would want something coming back the other way; problem being is that they only have St. Kilda's pick 23 atm (prob too high) or their own pick 40 (prob too low). Obviously a lot can play out with picks, especially considering Sydney's craftiness with academy wiggling and such as well as SOS's own adeptness at manipulating things....

8 for Martin and 17.
17 and future first for Papley, Cameron and 40.
Token 5th rounder for Betts.
Package up 40 and 44 for Freo's 24 (will go on Henry, better for them to retain a later pick).
Draft with 24, 39 and 67.

IN: Papley, Martin, Betts, Cameron, 24 (Taylor), 39 (Dow), 67 (Manton)
OUT: Thomas, Fasolo, Lobbe, Schumacher, Kerr, Garlett, Pickett

 

[Arr0w]

1. Understatement - none of the kids on exposed form and they've had plenty of exposed form can handle 4 quarter AFL standard on ball duties - none.
2. No they aren't finals quality - especially when Cripps is off the park - which has seen on many occasions massive momentum changes and multiple goals scored
3. Absolutely a massive priority in my books - until /unless 1-2 of Dow/Stocker/SPS/Fisher/Setterfield/Kennedy can step up - 1-2 yrs away from that
4. Why are these mutually exclusive? why are LoB/Fisher/Walsh/Murphy going to get a leave pass?
5. Agreed - but that has to be the case given list demographics anyway.

On point 4

LOB has the attributes and to some extent Fisher. Cuners certainly fits the bill, but injuries continue to hold him back

Walsh I wouldn't rate as being elite ish by foot nor is he quick, more a positive continuous motion player, Murphy will decline and inconsistent by foot and I would describe him as nippy rather than quick

I agree, they are not exclusive but if I had a choice, it wouldn't be an inside mid, it would be a balanced mid who is quick and hits targets

Another Cuners, but more durable?

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Papley for 8 is already slight overs. To pay anymore than that would be ludicrous.
If they want a second first round draft pick for him we'll also take Zak Jones and Darcy Cameron then.

If you look at the rise of richmond, collingwood, west coast and most recently brisbane, they've all had a lot of good players for a while but they only really started competing at the pointy end of finals when they got significant production from their small forwards. I think it's also the reason why GWS has underachieved. look at adelaide since cameron left and betts has slowed down.

quality small forwards are crucial to modern footy and papely is the best available. pick 8 is a fair deal but i'd happily give a little more (swap of later picks etc) to get it across the line.

 

[Pafloyul]

8 for Martin and 17.
17 and future first for Papley, Cameron and 40.
Token 5th rounder for Betts.
Package up 40 and 44 for Freo's 24 (will go on Henry, better for them to retain a later pick).
Draft with 24, 39 and 67.

IN: Papley, Martin, Betts, Cameron, 24 (Taylor), 39 (Dow), 67 (Manton)
OUT: Thomas, Fasolo, Lobbe, Schumacher, Kerr, Garlett, Pickett

No way.

 

[Blue__Balls]

No way.

Good chat.

 

[Pafloyul]

Good chat.

Not in the mood, would you react better if I typed in capitals with added swearing?

 

[Blue Baggers]

Sam Gray to blues fits the small forward requirement and stats are as good as any small forwards with pressure acts, tackles and score involvements.

If we can add papley/Martin and one more midfielder that will be perfect

 

[Blue__Balls]

Not in the mood, would you react better if I typed in capitals with added swearing?

Similar reaction.

If you're not in the mood to converse, maybe don't post anything.

More than happy to hear your thoughts on the suggested trades, but if you give a two word response that adds nothing of value, don't be surprised if you get the same back.

 

[Pafloyul]

Similar reaction.

If you're not in the mood to converse, maybe don't post anything.

More than happy to hear your thoughts on the suggested trades, but if you give a two word response that adds nothing of value, don't be surprised if you get the same back.

Spare me.

 

[Lace_Out]

That's actually pretty funny haha

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Blue__Balls]

Spare me.

Gladly. Bye.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

If you look at the rise of richmond, collingwood, west coast and most recently brisbane, they've all had a lot of good players for a while but they only really started competing at the pointy end of finals when they got significant production from their small forwards. I think it's also the reason why GWS has underachieved. look at adelaide since cameron left and betts has slowed down.

quality small forwards are crucial to modern footy and papely is the best available. pick 8 is a fair deal but i'd happily give a little more (swap of later picks etc) to get it across the line.

Hugely underrated. Look at Richmond, they have a game plan that near revolves around them and they are clearly the best side over the last three seasons. The best list by miles has been the Giants, only lacking small forwards. (Maybe a good coach too but no one rated Buckley or Hardwick either).
Geelong realised how important they are too plus actually found good ones. West Coast found theirs last year.
Not everyone is going to play in the midfield so we should be targeting players who actually play the role they are going to be asked to play.

 

[Blue and Silver]

If we pick up Sam Gray we are going to delist one of Lang, Deluca or Polson.

They are all small forward/midfielder

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[Team DJ]

If we pick up Sam Gray we are going to delist one of Lang, Deluca or Polson.

They are all small forward/midfielder

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Doubtful. DeLuca maybe as he is a rookie. But Lang and Polson are safe.

We already have 7 off of the list and have only resigned Gibbons and Goddard as Rookies.

 

[HARKER]

8 for Martin and 17.
17 and future first for Papley, Cameron and 40.
Token 5th rounder for Betts.
Package up 40 and 44 for Freo's 24 (will go on Henry, better for them to retain a later pick).
Draft with 24, 39 and 67.

IN: Papley, Martin, Betts, Cameron, 24 (Taylor), 39 (Dow), 67 (Manton)
OUT: Thomas, Fasolo, Lobbe, Schumacher, Kerr, Garlett, Pickett

We have to dig in with Papley. Of course I want him, but not at the expense of handing over the 2020 1st.
Forget the periphery picks, but we can't let go of two firsts for what mostly amounts to Papley & Martin.

If those two names come about to being our premium targets, they can't be at the expense of a 2020 1st. SOS has a lot of work to do.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

I saw the full article of diesel on cripps— It’s difficult to play better than he’s playing. But there’s little things he can improve on – three or four per cent here and there. There’s ways where he can be more dangerous and mark the ball more. He’s six foot five, so he’s taller than Wayne Carey. He’ll evolve as well and hopefully we (Carlton) can get a couple of serious midfielders in to help him and the younger ones that we’ve got, a couple more pre-seasons into them and they’re going to be supporting and helping him more.

 

[Wagyu Beef]

8 for Martin and 17.
17 and future first for Papley, Cameron and 40.
Token 5th rounder for Betts.
Package up 40 and 44 for Freo's 24 (will go on Henry, better for them to retain a later pick).
Draft with 24, 39 and 67.

IN: Papley, Martin, Betts, Cameron, 24 (Taylor), 39 (Dow), 67 (Manton)
OUT: Thomas, Fasolo, Lobbe, Schumacher, Kerr, Garlett, Pickett

None of the outs were used in the actual trades though?

 

[Arr0w]

We have to dig in with Papley. Of course I want him, but not at the expense of handing over the 2020 1st.
Forget the periphery picks, but we can't let go of two firsts for what mostly amounts to Papley & Martin.

If those two names come about to being our premium targets, they can't be at the expense of a 2020 1st. SOS has a lot of work to do.

Free agency is still in play

 

[HARKER]

Free agency is still in play

Not so much for our needs though. The Coniglio bird has flown.

I'd be happy with a net of Papley & Martin, as they deal with needs but not for what may amount to 2 1sts regardless of periphery players.

Should we manufacture trades where this years and next years first amount to three immediate best 22 players then fine.....but not for the inclusions of 'maybes' and 'hopefuls' That 2020 pick has to be earmarked for premium quality and even the 'cherry on top' quality which we may not be aware of today.

 

[Arr0w]

Not so much for our needs though. The Coniglio bird has flown.

I'd be happy with a net of Papley & Martin, as they deal with needs but not for what may amount to 2 1sts regardless of periphery players.

Should we manufacture trades where this years and next years first amount to three immediate best 22 players then fine.....but not for the inclusions of 'maybes' and 'hopefuls' That 2020 pick has to be earmarked for premium quality and even the 'cherry on top' quality which we may not be aware of today.

I am happy to trade it now, if you think this draft is even, next is nothing special either

 

[HARKER]

I am happy to trade it now, if you think this draft is even, next is nothing special either

I'm happy to trade it also, but under the circumstances I put forward.
Papley & Martin ++ doesn't make for two firsts walking out the door.

It doesn't matter so much at this stage what next years draft may look like but we have to accept as fact that giving up that pick now comes at a heavy discount.........so, NO. We don't lose the 2020 pick now for any combination of Papley & Martin ++ periphery players. NO!

 

[TheKITC]

2019 Papley is the same age and significantly better than the 2017 Cameron. Lions have been fortunate that Cameron has kicked on.

Respectfully disagree. Cameron had shown better signs and had torn apart some games by then, including a final if my memory serves me.

Looked a better prospect then and is a better player now IMO.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

If you look at the rise of richmond, collingwood, west coast and most recently brisbane, they've all had a lot of good players for a while but they only really started competing at the pointy end of finals when they got significant production from their small forwards. I think it's also the reason why GWS has underachieved. look at adelaide since cameron left and betts has slowed down.

quality small forwards are crucial to modern footy and papely is the best available. pick 8 is a fair deal but i'd happily give a little more (swap of later picks etc) to get it across the line.

Didn’t rich and Wc draft there forwards ?

 

[thylacine60]

The one thing I'd say about Jones is at 115kgs he needs to strip 10kgs off the frame, I have no doubt that his agility and endurance would increase of he did that. There's something to work with

Liam Jones is 115kgs?