List Mgmt. 2020 Draft (December 9) discussion thread

[dlanod]

Our currently owned picks:

24 - Blake Coleman
43 - Harry Sharp
48 - Henry Smith

Our currently owned 2021 picks:

1st (MEL), 1st (BRI), 3rd (WCE), 3rd (BRI), 4th (MEL), 4th (COL), 5th (BRI)

 

[braddsey]

Use the Ignore function if you are so bothered, which you are the whole time, so get off my arse if you don't like it because I couldn't care less what you think about my posting.

If you've walked away from tonight feeling over the moon about our night, then good for you, but I suspect there are quite a few that are very underwhelmed about our night and the manner in which we've traded picks, both during the trade period, pre draft and on the draft night.

I have no doubt when the experts rate each club's draft we'll be somewhere near the bottom. You can't win them all and obviously this year is less important for obvious reasons, but why wouldn't anyone want to feel good following a draft night?

I think people were generally going to be underwhelmed from the point we traded out our 1st round pick. As compared to previous years, we had no picks in the top-20. Added to that, there's a reduced "form-guide" for the draft pool this year due no football in Victoria. Given our final picks other than Coleman were 43 & 48, I'm not clear on how anyone could be overly excited.
Perhaps it's a new learning in general - teams at the top of the ladder generally don't get exciting draft periods - although next year will be awesome when we win the flag and Melbourne take the wooden spoon!

Go-lions.

 

[BRAB]

I was chatting to somebody at the club today, got lots of information, biggest nugget was that Dylan12 is still a sook.

 

[irel]

Both Smith and Sharp are bottom age. Effectively means if we compare their development they are at least twelve months behind some of the higher picked choices in this draft. As a strategy credit to our team to extract extra value from a poor hand dealt to us.
Smith from the highlights package looks a beauty. He appears to be a smooth moving, pack marking, nice disposal ruck/forward. We have our developing ruckman. A pleasant outcome for us.

 

[JasRulz63]

**** I hate Collingwood. Hope Ned Guy sticks around for as long as Eddie has.

 

[briztoon]

My "rational" way of looking at our pick trades and draft.

We traded our pick 16 2019 first round pick for, pick 17 in this years draft, and then we traded picks 21 and 22 in this years draft for Melbournes first round pick in 2021. And at the same time we traded our future second round pick (potentially in the 30 to 36 range) for pick 30 in this years draft.

We then got screwed over the second year running by a bid coming just before our pick.

The main thing I'm pissed about is, we could have had pretty much the exact same draft this year, without trading out our future second round pick in the first place.

No team was going to trade a future second round pick in next years draft for our second round pick in this years draft. Gold Coast traded the pick after ours to Geelong for a future 3rd round pick.

 

[Dylan12]

We then got screwed over the second year running by a bid coming just before our pick.

That's the biggest issue that we have now been blindsided two years in a row when the same thing isn't happening to other clubs, so it is a failure of the club, but to the rest of your post I chopped out, our whole strategy with respect to the use of our draft picks over a number of years is really suspect and a concern because other clubs aren't making the same mistakes.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Smiths to the Lions are like Jacks to St. Kilda.

If there's a Jack Smith, I wonder who gets them.

 

[JasRulz63]

The main thing I'm pissed about is, we could have had pretty much the exact same draft this year, without trading out our future second round pick in the first place.

Melbourne couldn't trade us their future first without getting a future second back (as they'd already sent theirs to Adelaide I think).

 

[briztoon]

Both Smith and Sharp are bottom age. Effectively means if we compare their development they are at least twelve months behind some of the higher picked choices in this draft. As a strategy credit to our team to extract extra value from a poor hand dealt to us.
Smith from the highlights package looks a beauty. He appears to be a smooth moving, pack marking, nice disposal ruck/forward. We have our developing ruckman. A pleasant outcome for us.

They're late year births (Sept and December), but I'm not sure why they're both in year 11, as they still should have finished year 12 this year. True bottom agers would be 2003 year births. Still they are late developers in football discussion sense, as they are late year births.

Last year all of Robertson, Smith and Prior had finished school in 2018 because they were early year births. Same as Hollands in this years draft, who finished school last year.

 

[scoman]

My "rational" way of looking at our pick trades and draft.

We traded our pick 16 2019 first round pick for, pick 17 in this years draft, and then we traded picks 21 and 22 in this years draft for Melbournes first round pick in 2021. And at the same time we traded our future second round pick (potentially in the 30 to 36 range) for pick 30 in this years draft.

We then got screwed over the second year running by a bid coming just before our pick.

The main thing I'm pissed about is, we could have had pretty much the exact same draft this year, without trading out our future second round pick in the first place.

No team was going to trade a future second round pick in next years draft for our second round pick in this years draft. Gold Coast traded the pick after ours to Geelong for a future 3rd round pick.

Agree. It has been a constant downgrade for a couple of years now. I'm not very impressed either.

 

[briztoon]

Melbourne couldn't trade us their future first without getting a future second back (as they'd already sent theirs to Adelaide I think).

Fair point. But it makes the cost of next years Melbourne pick rather steep. Essentially 3 picks for 1.

Seeing as we could have traded a future 3rd round pick to Gold Coast for their pick 26 in this years draft, as that was the price Geelong paid for it.

 

[bungalow_bill]

I'd like to point out that we have already brought in two top ten draft picks during the trade period. But I know you don't want to hear about it.

Maybe we look back in twelve months.

And both probably with less injury concerns than the kid the Suns took at 5

 

[JasRulz63]

Fair point. But it makes the cost of next years Melbourne pick rather steep. Essentially 3 picks for 1.

Seeing as we could have traded a future 3rd round pick to Gold Coast for their pick 26 in this years draft, as that was the price Geelong paid for it.

I agree that we did pay a steep price for Melbourne's first. I think I'd still do the trade though, from both a talent as well as a list planning perspective.

If we'd kept our first round picks this year, there's a chance Collingwood would've bid with one of their picks. Even if they didn't, we would've brought in likely another two midfielders to sit behind Robertson, Joyce, Smith etc.

The drafting of Sharp and Smith shows that we're looking to stash a bit of talent for the longer term, giving us time to see what we've got with the youth already on our list.

 

[Flossie32]

The other big difference this year was there was no function in Melbourne for the spare recruiters or scouts in our team to give us a commentary on the players we picked up and maybe some explanation. Now we wait for Stephen Conole’s interview for a bit more info.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

If we'd kept our first round picks this year, there's a chance Collingwood would've bid with one of their picks.

This is an important point. I think we were screwed for a bid regardless, unless we traded into the top 15, which was unrealistic. We did about as well as we could have under the circumstances. Hopefully Sharp wasn't below too many others on our board at 29. Neale was the only ruck taken before Smith so at minimum we got our second choice there.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

The idea that any club can wave a magic wand and trade up the order is laughable. At least half the clubs would be attempting the same

If any criticism could be made over the last few years is that we seem to be constantly trading into the following year's draft. Maybe it might pay off one year, but it feels sometimes like paying a credit card off with another credit card. Granted, if you're playing the percentages, this wasn't the year to be taking a lot of picks - shrinking lists & cap, plus little exposed form.

But I guess many are after short-term gratification.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

If any criticism could be made over the last few years is that we seem to be constantly trading into the following year's draft. Maybe it might pay off one year, but it feels sometimes like paying a credit card off with another credit card.

Except in that circumstance, you eventually have to pay a price, whereas we're paying the price now by not taking first round picks. So I'd say it feels more like saving up every year. It's just a question of whether the thing we're saving up for is as nice as we expect it to be.

 

[briztoon]

I agree that we did pay a steep price for Melbourne's first. I think I'd still do the trade though, from both a talent as well as a list planning perspective.

If we'd kept our first round picks this year, there's a chance Collingwood would've bid with one of their picks. Even if they didn't, we would've brought in likely another two midfielders to sit behind Robertson, Joyce, Smith etc.

The drafting of Sharp and Smith shows that we're looking to stash a bit of talent for the longer term, giving us time to see what we've got with the youth already on our list.

I believe almost any players we selected with later picks would have been longer term selections (apart from some one like Highmore).

 

[briztoon]

Except in that circumstance, you eventually have to pay a price, whereas we're paying the price now by not taking first round picks. So I'd say it feels more like saving up every year. It's just a question of whether the thing we're saving up for is as nice as we expect it to be.

I don't believe we're paying a price now, by trading in to the future.

We loaded our list with young talent from 2016 to 2019. And we've traded in a fair bit to from 2017 to this year. We've started to shed some of the 2016 draftees, and hopefully this opens up playing time for some of our 2018 and 2019 draftees.

Honestly I would have been happy to just take Coleman and a young ruck this year, and move more picks in to the future if possible.

In season 2021, I believe we're going to have to replace Robinson and Birchall in the best 22 with players currently on the list. Slightly longer term, we have Rich and Zorko as the players most likely needing to be replaced through trade or draft. Much longer term, Lyons, Neale and McCarthy are in the next age bracket, though I believe Robertson and Coleman jr cover two of those spots.

 

[luthor]

We got our man in Coleman and we added a ruck and a speedster with our later picks, albeit if a bit speculative.

Is it over-simplistic for me to declare "mission accomplished"?

I fully admit I don't have the depth of knowledge about drafting and trading that some others have here but it seems to me we did OK especially after Collingwood went rogue with their bid on Blake

 

[blueiris]

The great thing about Coleman being a first round pick it allows us to be able to trade both next year 1st if we want too
as for the rest of the draft I really wanted Jack Carroll and Henry Walsh but I’m happy with whatever Conole Drafts he hasn’t let us down yet


Also I really enjoyed seeing players compared to Lions players like Hollands was to Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

31

Ht

178cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

 

[Clarkythelion]

They're late year births (Sept and December), but I'm not sure why they're both in year 11, as they still should have finished year 12 this year. True bottom agers would be 2003 year births. Still they are late developers in football discussion sense, as they are late year births.

Last year all of Robertson, Smith and Prior had finished school in 2018 because they were early year births. Same as Hollands in this years draft, who finished school last year.

Harry sharp - At just 17-years-of-age and with another year of school ahead of him. Thats what I picked off the Lions web site anyway.

 

[T Rick]

So what happens to the boys who haven't finished school - do they come to Qld and finish their studies while being full time footballers on our list?

 

[T Rick]

Am I right in assuming that we now just have one spot on our list for a rookie or in-season draft selection?

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

I think everyone would agree that we need another ruckman. IIRC, Dean Cox

Dean Cox

Age

43

Ht

203cm

Wt

107kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.9

4star

K

8.9

3star

HB

6.9

4star

M

5.3

5star

T

1.5

3star

G

0.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.4

4star

G

0.0

1star

, the West Coast champion, came into West Coast as a rookie. Ruckman have usually drift down the draft order so one in the forties doesn't worry me greatly.

WE didn't get a mature aged ruckman so I assume we got the best rated ruckman that was still left when the pick came up.

Does anyone know if there was any other draftable ruckman about that we could have got instead of Smith? Could we drafted a better young ruckman?