List Mgmt. 2020 Draft (December 9) discussion thread

[dlanod]

Our currently owned picks:

24 - Blake Coleman
43 - Harry Sharp
48 - Henry Smith

Our currently owned 2021 picks:

1st (MEL), 1st (BRI), 3rd (WCE), 3rd (BRI), 4th (MEL), 4th (COL), 5th (BRI)

 

[davemc_lions]

Usually a good idea to dial back the enthusiasm of draft watchers. They have to hype them up.

every kid last night was a potential Gun.
They do not use that word lightly you know

 

[jackess]

I like Blake but I'm more bullish on Keidean being a very good long term player.

I hope Keidean can get his fitness up to be a high half forward. Seems better suited setting up the play rather than finishing

 

[Clarkythelion]

So were we at, 43 list spots taken 1 possible spot left on the rookie list?

 

[blueiris]

So were we at, 43 list spots taken 1 possible spot left on the rookie list?

most Had us taking Michael either in the Draft or Rookie Twomey pushing him the most

 

[Flea_29]

Hearing we could be selecting J. Trengove

 

[Tom14]

People whinging about the draft remind me of the stupidity of this tweet from a few days ago:



Not making top 20 picks is not at all shocking for a club who played in a prelim.

Ideally we would have got melbourne's first without giving up our future second, but worth remembering that next year the top 20 picks won't have any NGA bid matching allowed - so the value of those first 20 picks will be a bit higher than it was this year.

 

[Quigley]

My thoughts on our draft:


Coleman - really a no brainer for us. It is a shame he did not fall to after our first pick but really that was a bit much to expect. He is a legitimate top 20 talent who, unlike many, actually had some pretty good exposed form this year. Personally I rate him higher than Pickett who went at 12 last year. We are getting a skilled small forward who has very nice goal sense. He is good with the ball in the air and on the ground and the comparison to Liam Ryan

1

Liam Ryan

Age

28

Ht

181cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.3

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

2.7

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.3

5star

D

9.9

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.6

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

11.4

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.6

5star

is actually a very good one. His tackling inside 50 is good and when he is outside 50 his delivery into his fellow forwards is very good. As with most small forwards he can drift in and out of games and he does need to improve his engine but overall he is up there with the best small forward options this year and I think he becomes a very nice player for us.


Sharp – I have not seen him play so there is not much I can say. We do lack depth in the outside players and he will get a chance to run around on the wing in the ressies and see what he can do. If he succeeds he changes the athletic profile of out team whereby suddenly the middle of the ground for us is filled with quite a few top end runners. I don’t mind the punt.



Smith – would not have been my choice but I understand the pick. Personally I had him ranked after Thilthorpe, Neale and Walsh but I note the first two of those had already been taken when we selected Smith. My main gripe with Smith at the moment is that I really don’t rate his ruck work that highly and personally I put a fair bit of importance on that. When he competed against the top tier rucks in his age group last year I thought he usually came off second best. I think the Lions took him believing that they could improve that area and valuing the upside he represents in other areas. Whilst he might not be as good in the ruck as Walsh is at the moment I expect they think he will offer much more around the ground and that is not an unreasonable belief. For a ruck he is a fluid mover who gets to marking contests and makes himself available in disposal chains. His disposal skills are solid and his goal kicking technique is actually very good. Combined with him being a decent mark I expect him to be a reasonable threat up when resting up forward. Make no mistake though he is going to be a ruck who rests forward and not someone who we can rely on to be a forward and kick bags of goals. He has good height and is a solidly built guy who I think will fill out into a powerful ruck presence. Coming into the AFL he reminds me of De Koning and Hayes who were recent draftees for Carlton and Port. Both are solid mobile types who have needed work on their ruck technique. Both of those guys are looking good and I think the Lions are following suit drafting Smith.

 

[Nuggo]

Smith may have another little growth spurt as well

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Be interesting why we picked Smith over Walsh/Heath.
Did not hear anything about him.

With rucks, you're not looking for who's the best at age 18, you're looking for who will be the best at age 25 when they begin their prime years. Clearly they thought Smith had good tools to work with in his development over the next 6-7 years. It appears he's quite similar to Oscar in body type and natural game, so we can mold him further to be like Oscar and take over seamlessly once Oscar retires.

 

[briztoon]

I’m genuinely interested in, do we leave Sharp and Smith at home to finish their schooling?

Both are in good systems, and I don’t believe there’s a need to get them to the club during the school year.

We can bring them up after Christmas for the beginning of preseason, then they can head home when school starts.

 

[jackess]

I’m genuinely interested in, do we leave Sharp and Smith at home to finish their schooling?

Both are in good systems, and I don’t believe there’s a need to get them to the club during the school year.

We can bring them up after Christmas for the beginning of preseason, then they can head home when school starts.

Might as well. Wonder if Sharp could play for our reserves when they play in Melbourne

 

[jackess]

The only photo I'd seen of Walsh (which might have been old) looked like he was 10 years off being big enough to ruck. Smith looks more physically developed.

 

[Monkey Daniel]

They're late year births (Sept and December), but I'm not sure why they're both in year 11, as they still should have finished year 12 this year. True bottom agers would be 2003 year births. Still they are late developers in football discussion sense, as they are late year births.

Last year all of Robertson, Smith and Prior had finished school in 2018 because they were early year births. Same as Hollands in this years draft, who finished school last year.

Both may have been held back a year before starting school or after starting school, hence they are in Year 11
Our no 2 son (Sept baby) we held back from starting kinder as he wasn’t ready. He was 18 when he started Year 12 and turned 19 during his final school year.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

From Draft Central's guide:

Harry SHARP
17/12/2002 | 183cm / 69kg
OUTSIDE MIDFIELDER / MEDIUM FORWARD

DRAFT ANALYSIS
An elite outside runner who developed rapidly coming into the GWV Rebels’ program as a bottom-ager.
STRENGTHS
› Endurance
› Work rate
› Marking
› Agility
› Outside game
IMPROVEMENTS
› Inside game
› Kicking

Harry Sharp is a high-level runner who is relatively new to the elite level football program at the Greater Western Victoria (GWV) Rebels. However, he showed in spurts last year that he is able to compete against some of the top prospects running around. He still has to develop areas of his game, but in terms of his work ethic, athleticism and outside abilities, Sharp has come on in leaps and bounds in his bottom-age year and is one clubs can rely on should they take a chance on him.

Sharp showed some great signs in 2019 having effectively come from a blank canvas, with many of his Athletic traits undeniable as he instead is just looking to further build his footballing ones. As a middle-distance runner, Sharp has an absolute elite tank which saw him record 22.4 on the beep test in the 2019 NAB League Fitness Testing. He had a slightly lower score in 2020, but the fact he could hit that number showed just how remarkable of a runner he is and how he could wear down opponents, before putting out a record 5:28 in the 2km time trial at the AFL Draft Combine.

In terms of his other athletic traits, he is also very evasive which means he does not only outwork opponents, but he can also sidestep them when they are tiring as well. Combine these with his high work rate and desire to improve, and Sharp is someone who has shown he can run up and down the field on a wing playing as an outside midfielder, or even impact up forward.

Sharp still finished the season with a lower than 50 per cent kicking efficiency with a third of his possessions coming in the contest, which is where he will be focusing his attention going forward. Given AFL clubs will need next to no work on his athletic traits, the focus will be building up his footballing traits.

Henry SMITH
24/09/2002 | 204cm / 96kg
KEY FORWARD / RUCK

DRAFT ANALYSIS
A mobile key forward/ruck who clunks contested marks and follows up at ground level.
STRENGTHS
› Contested marking
› Size
› Upside
› Ground level work
› Second efforts
IMPROVEMENTS
› Speed
› Endurance

Woodville-West Torrens tall, Henry Smith is one of the many key position prospects staking his claim as an AFL Draft chance in 2020, and has returned a promising top-age season. Stationed primarily up forward, the 18-year-old also rotates through the ruck and can chime in at the forward 50 stoppages. After missing the first three SANFL Under 18s rounds, Smith entered the Eagles side with aplomb and went on to string together 13 games at the level. Keen watchers may also remember his contributions in the SANFL Futures and Under-17 All-Star showcases last year, where he showed glimpses of his best form. Smith has been able to showcase exactly that more often as a top-ager, thriving on the back of a consistent run out on the park.

At over 200cm, it is no real surprise that Smith’s strengths read as they do. While stationed up forward as he most often is, the young tall is so difficult to stop from the front position. No defender in the SANFL Under 18s was able to get near him aerially when trailing behind, as the big man would take the ball at its highest point with his long reach. While smart to use height to his advantage, Smith’s lack of explosive strength or spring may see him take less contested marks at the elite level, or be forced to find different ways of doing so.

One of the most promising aspects of Smith’s game, and one which helps boost the upside tag is his ability to follow up at ground level. Should Smith be unable to initially clunk a mark, he can be seen immediately hunting the ground ball and looking to advance the play forward. The Eagles product remains quite raw though, with some filling-out to do and skills to sharpen. Smith booted 16.14 during his top-age campaign, a steady return of over a goal per game. A late to rookie chance this year.

 

[Dylan12]

It depends on the kid, their family, and the club. Usually they'll stay at their current school but sometimes the club moves them to a boarding school if they're interested.

He could also remain in Melbourne, complete year 12 and come up and do pre-season and train with the club on school holidays etc. and play for the reserves, particularly when they play in Melbourne and / or Brisbane on school holidays etc. Appreciate that may sound disjointed and disruptive to any continuity, but could be an option.

 

[Section 5]

Smith may have another little growth spurt as well

Please be more Smithspific

 

[M Malice]

I’m genuinely interested in, do we leave Sharp and Smith at home to finish their schooling?

Both are in good systems, and I don’t believe there’s a need to get them to the club during the school year.

We can bring them up after Christmas for the beginning of preseason, then they can head home when school starts.

Me too, 3 way decision for the kids, club and parents.

It would be a shame to miss out on a full year of development under the close eyes of Fagan and co though, if they stayed I wonder would they just play school footy, a year in the new reserves competition would be handy as well.

I'm expecting the boys to be really keen to get into it and move up to Brisbane and go to boarding school.

 

[scoman]

I like Blake but I'm more bullish on Keidean being a very good long term player.

Keidean might end up playing off half back or the wing at some point. He seems very versatile and composed wherever he plays. Could become the running half back we keep talking about. I wonder what he is like one on one? I do remember someone made the remark last preseason that he was giving Ah Chee a bit of a bath in some one v one drills.

 

[jackess]

Me too, 3 way decision for the kids, club and parents.

It would be a shame to miss out on a full year of development under the close eyes of Fagan and co though, if they stayed I wonder would they just play school footy, a year in the new reserves competition would be handy as well.

I'm expecting the boys to be really keen to get into it and move up to Brisbane and go to boarding school.

The risk for them would be with the lack of development in their first season they might struggle to show enough in the second to get another contract. I wonder if they considered putting off nominating for the draft until they finished school

 

[Section 5]

I think everyone would agree that we need another ruckman. IIRC, Dean Cox

Dean Cox

Age

43

Ht

203cm

Wt

107kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.9

4star

K

8.9

3star

HB

6.9

4star

M

5.3

5star

T

1.5

3star

G

0.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.4

4star

G

0.0

1star

, the West Coast champion, came into West Coast as a rookie. Ruckman have usually drift down the draft order so one in the forties doesn't worry me greatly.

WE didn't get a mature aged ruckman so I assume we got the best rated ruckman that was still left when the pick came up.

Does anyone know if there was any other draftable ruckman about that we could have got instead of Smith? Could we drafted a better young ruckman?

Simba Moyo mentioned these guys below. Just some more information on them.
The full article link has more on 10 players that missed out two being rucks
Would the Lions take another speculative ruck and see who emerges after 2 years
...
Max HEATH

Clubs: Sandringham Dragons/Vic Metro
Position: Ruck
Size: 203cm/94kg

Bio The Victorian looms as one of the better ruck prospects despite being one of the little known prospects ahead of the draft. Heath had some eye-catching moments over the pre-season, with 2020 set to be a big year for the tall. But unfortunately clubs weren’t able to see as much as they had hoped of the competitive beast. He is willing to tackle hard to win the ball back and is able to be a marking target close to goal. His endurance is a work in progress but he is the perfect player who can develop in an elite program.

HENRY WALSH

Clubs: Geelong Falcons/Vic Country
Position: Ruck
Size: 203cm/87kg

Bio: Walsh is one of the best ruck prospects in the country and could find a home late in the draft. He is the brother of Carlton’s No.1 draft pick Sam, with the tall having completely different traits to the midfielder. He is a good player at ground level and wins a number of clearances with his follow-up work. He was expected to have a huge role at state and NAB League level, but hasn’t been able to show how much he has developed in 12 months.

These 10 draft prospects were snubbed. Now they deserve rookie lifelines.

These 10 prospects were snubbed at the 2020 AFL Draft. Now they deserve rookie lifelines

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[M Malice]

Keidean might end up playing off half back or the wing at some point. He seems very versatile and composed wherever he plays. Could become the running half back we keep talking about. I wonder what he is like one on one? I do remember someone made the remark last preseason that he was giving Ah Chee a bit of a bath in some one v one drills.

Yep, I was there at that pre season hit out with briztoon and luthor.

 

[dlanod]

He could also remain in Melbourne, complete year 12 and come up and do pre-season and train with the club on school holidays etc. and play for the reserves, particularly when they play in Melbourne and / or Brisbane on school holidays etc. Appreciate that may sound disjointed and disruptive to any continuity, but could be an option.

IIRC that was the Dangerfield model. I know other guys did similar, but Dangerfield sticks in the memory because he was taken interstate in the first round without finishing school which was unusual so got a focus what he was actually doing.

 

[Dalions]

Me too, 3 way decision for the kids, club and parents.

It would be a shame to miss out on a full year of development under the close eyes of Fagan and co though, if they stayed I wonder would they just play school footy, a year in the new reserves competition would be handy as well.

I'm expecting the boys to be really keen to get into it and move up to Brisbane and go to boarding school.

A lot of Schools offer a program where you can actually do year 12 over 2 Years.
Specifically designed for Sports people.
They probably only need to go to school for 2 days a week and it may only be for certain subjects, not full days.
Could be perfect for their situation and there are good schools in Brisbane that would take them on.

 

[scoman]

I wonder if nobody bids on any if the Academy boys we just let our rookie pick slide and let them playoff for our last spot over the preseason?

 

[scoman]

Of note in the pre season/rookie draft-

As expected Jackson Hately

6

Jackson Hately

Age

24

Ht

191cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.3

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

6.8

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.7

3star

D

14.2

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

5.8

3star

M

4.8

4star

T

1.4

2star

CL

0.4

3star

D

17.2

5star

K

8.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

5.6

5star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.8

3star

to the Crows.

Bryce Gibbs to the Crows... WTF.. was that expected?

Must be a payout/ salary cap thing?